[T_U_D]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Sales manager at the dealer where I bought my M2 told me the test drive at the end of the PDI is short something less than a mile. Given how rough the road is that's equivalent to driving the car over the Dakar rally course...

A sales manager generally has little to no knowledge of what goes on in the back of the house, the service department. That is the service manager’s responsibility. Post PDI test drives varies per center as it is generally at the discretion of the technician performing the PDI. Furthermore, BMW NA guidelines formerly allowed up to 12 miles.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by T_U_D

A sales manager generally has little to no knowledge of what goes on in the back of the house, the service department. That is the service manager’s responsibility. Post PDI test drives varies per center as it is generally at the discretion of the technician performing the PDI. Furthermore, BMW NA guidelines formerly allowed up to 12 miles.

Some sales managers are woefully uninformed. But some are knowledgeable.

Just passing on what I was told.

While it is possible every person who can drive the car from the when it rolls off the assembly line to where it is left parked where the buyer finds it and does so I feel that is unlikely.

Not quite the same thing but years ago when I worked at a plant that specialized in adding to trucks (small (not big rig) rental trucks like one finds at uHaul or Penske) a box frame (welded together on a jig), then the box, finishing the box on the inside (flooring and lights and paneling), then later as a welder attaching the electrical/hydraulic lift gate to the rear of the truck, and at times was responsible for fetching the next truck (with a cab and engine and running gear and was driveable) and then after I was through taking it back to the lot -- I had no time for a joyride. Nor did any of my co-workers.

There are valid reasons a car such as the M2 -- and really any modern car for that matter -- could be driven some and more than just to move the car from the end of the assembly line to a parking lot and at every other point as it makes it way from the factory to the dealer.

[RoccoVA]

One person test drove the HEA M2 at my dealer in front of me. Car had 21 miles when I drove it and 34 when I signed papers.

[JustinHEMI]

16 miles.

[02M3ForMe]

My ZB 6MT had 12 miles, my BG ZF8 had 35 miles. Both were confirmed readings immediately off of the truck.

[freeside]

22 miles

[ourlee]

In the theme of this thread, how many miles until you don’t accept delivery? I ask because my dealer has a 120 mile car but won’t let me drive it even if I deposit on an order. Getting sour feelings

[KC87ZB]

Originally Posted by ourlee

In the theme of this thread, how many miles until you don’t accept delivery? I ask because my dealer has a 120 mile car but won’t let me drive it even if I deposit on an order. Getting sour feelings

So apparently you are the only one they won’t let drive it. They are likely concerned they are approaching the number of miles where folks will care. Mine had 99 miles, didn’t bother me.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by ourlee

In the theme of this thread, how many miles until you don’t accept delivery? I ask because my dealer has a 120 mile car but won’t let me drive it even if I deposit on an order. Getting sour feelings

Based on what I've been told by dealer employees is a car can be driven more than a handful of miles. A car might manifest a problem during the post assembly test drive that requires more than the usual post assembly drive time. Or in the event problem can't be resolved in the time allowed a note is attached to the car's paperwork and when car arrives at a port of entry processing center it will get driven more until the problem is resolved.

Sure, 120 miles seems like a lot of miles is a lot of miles to resolve a problem.

If I ordered a car and it showed up with 120 miles I would not be a happy camper. But I would think if what I wrote above reflects reality the dealer might be able to show you something that shows the miles were accumulated as part of the post assembly test phase and not just every dealer employee having a go in the car.

Have you asked how the car came to get that many miles on it? You can mention other owners have posted receiving their ordered cars (or in my case managing to find and buy a launch car that was not spoken for) and these cars having far fewer miles.

Will admit back in April 2009 I did buy a 2008 Cayman S new but it had around 80 miles on it. I'm sure it was test driven some -- although believe it or not I didn't test drive it (although I should have as the alignment proved to be a bit off but I had the car back in for this a day or two later and it was sorted at no cost to me).

Drove the car and it ran fine, felt fine. I gave it early servicing as is my habit and at 2000 miles -- end of break in -- the engine was running very well. The clutch and transmission were fine. I was confident that in that 80 miles it had not suffered any abuse or none severe enough to do any harm. And it could very well be that car accumulated the excess miles being test driven first at the Porsche factory then maybe at a state side processing center.

Which reminds me the word was at least with Porsche cars every once in awhile a car coming off the line would get test driven on the test drive and more than the handful of miles most cars got driven.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by ourlee

In the theme of this thread, how many miles until you don’t accept delivery? I ask because my dealer has a 120 mile car but won’t let me drive it even if I deposit on an order. Getting sour feelings

If you plan to drive the car why would 100mi matter? The car was made to eat miles...just not on one tank haha.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by zero21

If you plan to drive the car why would 100mi matter? The car was made to eat miles...just not on one tank haha.

It is not the miles necessarily it is the concern about how the car was driven to accumulate those miles.

The odds are very high the miles were put on ourlee's car for legitimate reasons and there was no abuse/misuse involved.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

It is not the miles necessarily it is the concern about how the car was driven to accumulate those miles.

The odds are very high the miles were put on the car for legitimate reasons and there was no abuse/misuse involved.

I get it, I'm still saying it doesn't matter if person X revs the engine to 5k, or owner y does. It's the same thing and you still get the same warranty. If there's 10k miles on it, yeah ok I get it there's only so much warranty left. But it's 100mi.

Then the argument goes, well it's the break-in period. Yeah, ok, I get it. If the dealer sells you a bad car and it develops an issue, get a print out of the DME history and see what the deal is.

My bottom line is there should basically be zero chance it prevents you from purchasing the car. Hell if anyone knows some tech didnt rev it up on a slow day after a car wash. No one knows the full history of any car so it's a moot point.

[Skooba1231]

Just picked mine up with 81 miles on it

[Connors5453]

99miles on mine

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by zero21

I get it, I'm still saying it doesn't matter if person X revs the engine to 5k, or owner y does. It's the same thing and you still get the same warranty. If there's 10k miles on it, yeah ok I get it there's only so much warranty left. But it's 100mi.

Then the argument goes, well it's the break-in period. Yeah, ok, I get it. If the dealer sells you a bad car and it develops an issue, get a print out of the DME history and see what the deal is.

My bottom line is there should basically be zero chance it prevents you from purchasing the car. Hell if anyone knows some tech didnt rev it up on a slow day after a car wash. No one knows the full history of any car so it's a moot point.

Actually it is premitted to rev the engine to 5K RPMs even in the 1st 600 miles of the 1200 miles break in.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Actually it is premitted to rev the engine to 5K RPMs even in the 1st 600 miles of the 1200 miles break in.

5k wasn't the point. Loading the engine was.

[InTheSound]

35km on my HEA in Vancouver, BC. No problem with that other than the useless PDI detail that added light scratches. Car is in for PPF and a Stage 1 paint correction as I write this.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by zero21

5k wasn't the point. Loading the engine was.

Yes, I know I just didn't have the time to add more.

The engine controller records engine over rev events which in an automatic should not happen as the transmission shifts just short of red line unless the driver puts the automatic into manual mode sport mode then maybe the transmission will just hit red line.

Of course with a manual transmission red line revs -- even beyond red line revs -- can be obtained and recorded.

But unless the engine pukes its guts out then and there or in some way manifests some signs of an issue the car gets delivered to the customer.

For a problem that manifests itself at a later date there is no way to tie usage to a specific mile, date, or time.

Time and miles later the engine rev counter is read. Been a while since I was involved with automotive test equipment (software) and engien controller communication and obtaining engine telemetry. Maybe the data being logged now has gotten more detailed. Used to be the engine controller had no concept of calendar date/time. Just engine run time in seconds. Unless this has changed I just don't think there is a way to clearly distinguish abuse/misuse prior to delivery to after delivery. Or abuse of the car during a service vs. when back in the customer's hands.

That is when a car is in for service there's no bookmark dropped to indicate engine/vehicle telemetry that might be logged is to be associated with another driver, a tech in this case.

Even if the factory warranties the engine that's still doesn't make it right.

The customer has to bring the car in for an issue.

The customer is out the use of his car. There is the inconvenience.

Likely and from the dealer's point of view understandable the customer will be blamed. Abuse/misuse is not covered by warranty.

In the (unlikely) event the customer is not held at fault and the damage is warrantied the car has to receive serious engine work, maybe even an engine replacement through no fault of the customer.

The factory is out the expense of warrantying the engine. Guess who ultimately pays for that? Well, car buyers of course.

Not saying every car delivered with more miles than what is on the title has been abused. I believe actual abuse is rather rare. I have bought new cars with in some cases (well, at least one case) hundreds of miles (381) on the odometer when the title has the miles down at just a handful. (The bill of sale had the 381 miles listed.) Other cars have had more than "delivery" miles. My M2 manufacturer's title listed the mileage at 17 miles. The bill of sale listed it as 20 miles. And of course I have bought at least one used car with nearly 10K miles on it.

Now I have unfortunately encountered clear evidence of mistreatment of my cars when in for service. I mentioned my (2006) GTO. At least two times in fact at two different dealers. The trip/data logger I had in the car recorded high revs, exceptionally high acceleration events, high speed (90+ mph, which upon further analysis occurred on streets posted with a limit of 35mph).

Which brings up another concern. If the tech has an accident which insurance covers this? My car is insured. I have granted permission for the car to be driven but the assumption on my part is driven just to move the car from the parking lot to the service bay and back again. The car in this case was not for a problem just servicing. There was no need for any test drive. So if the tech has an accident who pays?

I did get an alert from a tracking device in my Porsche Turbo of a speed limit violation this on the road to the dealer. It was a dealer employee who had picked up my Turbo at my home (with my permission) and was driving it to the dealer for service. I was not that concerned about the car. But I emailed the service advisor to inform the driver based on my use of a V1 that stretch of road was heavily "patrolled" and to advise this employee to cool his jets regardless of which vehicle he was in.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Yes, I know I just didn't have the time to add more.

The engine controller records engine over rev events which in an automatic should not happen as the transmission shifts just short of red line unless the driver puts the automatic into manual mode sport mode then maybe the transmission will just hit red line.

Of course with a manual transmission red line revs -- even beyond red line revs -- can be obtained and recorded.

But unless the engine pukes its guts out then and there or in some way manifests some signs of an issue the car gets delivered to the customer.

For a problem that manifests itself at a later date there is no way to tie usage to a specific mile, date, or time.

Time and miles later the engine rev counter is read. Been a while since I was involved with automotive test equipment (software) and engien controller communication and obtaining engine telemetry. Maybe the data being logged now has gotten more detailed. Used to be the engine controller had no concept of calendar date/time. Just engine run time in seconds. Unless this has changed I just don't think there is a way to clearly distinguish abuse/misuse prior to delivery to after delivery. Or abuse of the car during a service vs. when back in the customer's hands.

That is when a car is in for service there's no bookmark dropped to indicate engine/vehicle telemetry that might be logged is to be associated with another driver, a tech in this case.

Even if the factory warranties the engine that's still doesn't make it right.

The customer has to bring the car in for an issue.

The customer is out the use of his car. There is the inconvenience.

Likely and from the dealer's point of view understandable the customer will be blamed. Abuse/misuse is not covered by warranty.

In the (unlikely) event the customer is not held at fault and the damage is warrantied the car has to receive serious engine work, maybe even an engine replacement through no fault of the customer.

The factory is out the expense of warrantying the engine. Guess who ultimately pays for that? Well, car buyers of course.

Not saying every car delivered with more miles than what is on the title has been abused. I believe actual abuse is rather rare. I have bought new cars with in some cases (well, at least one case) hundreds of miles (381) on the odometer when the title has the miles down at just a handful. (The bill of sale had the 381 miles listed.) Other cars have had more than "delivery" miles. My M2 manufacturer's title listed the mileage at 17 miles. The bill of sale listed it as 20 miles. And of course I have bought at least one used car with nearly 10K miles on it.

Now I have unfortunately encountered clear evidence of mistreatment of my cars when in for service. I mentioned my (2006) GTO. At least two times in fact at two different dealers. The trip/data logger I had in the car recorded high revs, exceptionally high acceleration events, high speed (90+ mph, which upon further analysis occurred on streets posted with a limit of 35mph).

Which brings up another concern. If the tech has an accident which insurance covers this? My car is insured. I have granted permission for the car to be driven but the assumption on my part is driven just to move the car from the parking lot to the service bay and back again. The car in this case was not for a problem just servicing. There was no need for any test drive. So if the tech has an accident who pays?

I did get an alert from a tracking device in my Porsche Turbo of a speed limit violation this on the road to the dealer. It was a dealer employee who had picked up my Turbo at my home (with my permission) and was driving it to the dealer for service. I was not that concerned about the car. But I emailed the service advisor to inform the driver based on my use of a V1 that stretch of road was heavily "patrolled" and to advise this employee to cool his jets regardless of which vehicle he was in.

Do you have a link to the audio book?

[omasou]

HEA cars are meant to be test driven.

[Squidget]

RockCrusher I appreciate what you wrote, and I understand your point, but is there in general anything that can be done?

Obviously I can't put a stealth GPS tracker on a car before delivery. It seems you could ask a dealer to check the ECU log for stress events at delivery, but I'm not sure they would actually do that.

And since abuse of car and miles on a car are basically unrelated, I don't think it makes sense to jump to conclusions based on the odo alone.

[ghaffari46]

All men and women in the dealership probably “had a taste of it” before handing it out to you, that’s okay, sharing the joy!
Thats the price you pay when you’re getting such a unique car early😊
I got my x7 with 6 miles on it, Apparently no one wanted to drive it!