[Back in a Subie]

From HRE Performance Wheels Facebook page. Ill take one, please.

[KingOfJericho]

Why is the side skirt so wavy?

[Red Bread]

For the same reason it has a 4x6 for a front splitter.

[dreamspeed]

Call me crazy but i'd actually buy a CTSV over a M5

For the low 40s range I think a BOSS 302 is an excellent choice.

Even better if you can work the laguna seca package in there somehow

[Lifted07Duramax]

Originally Posted by dreamspeed

Call me crazy but i'd actually buy a CTSV over a M5

For the low 40s range I think a BOSS 302 is an excellent choice.

Even better if you can work the laguna seca package in there somehow

Eh yea I agree but if I were going to go with a mustang again Id get a GT500 but I wouldnt want any GT500 but the 2013 with the 662hp?

[boostfiend]

Originally Posted by Lifted07Duramax

Eh yea I agree but if I were going to go with a mustang again Id get a GT500 but I wouldnt want any GT500 but the 2013 with the 662hp?

Have you ever driven one? They are the most unpredicatble cars ever. Good luck getting a race car driver too get the same turn in out more than twice lol. I drive my friends all the time everytime i'm over 50% throttle the thing changes 3 lanes it's ridiculous. Haven't drove a 13 yet but hear they are even a big of a nightmare and that's a track package equipped car. The Boss is rather miles ahead of the GT500 it actually turns haha if you just want too go straight get a GT500 but it's a disaster on track.

[boostfiend]

Originally Posted by Lifted07Duramax

Really 3600lbs? Any plants for a atsv coupe? If so probably not anytime soon huh

Id be all over that TT 3.6 I bet it could hit 500rwhp with the same mods as the 335i takes to reach 450rwhp

Anyone take an ISF over a CTSV?

You can easily get the TT 3.6 to make 500rwhp+ it is now offered in the BASE cts as the standard engine with 420hp. The ATS-V will have more though expect it too have 450-475 stock too keep it somewhat close to the current M3, S4, C63 and somewhat withing the range of 14 models at 20-30k less msrp.

The CTS-V is a hell of a car depends on your needs most euro fans won't cross shop it though it is still american. 5k and you have a 800hp car, magnetic suspension, brembos, etc. Over here you can get a CPO with at least 4+ years of warranty left for dirt cheap 40k all day for a 30k mile car.

[freshwhite335]

my dealership's got a sedan for $46000

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by boostfiend

Have you ever driven one? They are the most unpredicatble cars ever. Good luck getting a race car driver too get the same turn in out more than twice lol. I drive my friends all the time everytime i'm over 50% throttle the thing changes 3 lanes it's ridiculous. Haven't drove a 13 yet but hear they are even a big of a nightmare and that's a track package equipped car. The Boss is rather miles ahead of the GT500 it actually turns haha if you just want too go straight get a GT500 but it's a disaster on track.

There's no Track Pack on the pre-'13s, so I'm assuming you mean he's got the SVTPP?

Don't get me wrong, I'd take a BOSS for track duty any day over a GT500 (even the '13s), but it's not really fair to call the GT500 "a disaster on track" and imply it doesn't "actually turn". The iron block cars pushed excessively, but the Al block did wonders for that car. The newer ones still push, but in a much more manageable manner.

It takes a lot more seat time to get it right as opposed to the very neutral and predictable BOSS (or GT for that matter), but once you get it, you will keep up until you soak. Some cars just take more work and more care to drive faster. Look at the GT-R versus * debates (esp GT2 RS). Same concept but on a much faster scale of course.

If you get on 50% throttle and are having issues keeping it straight, that's definitely not the car's fault unless there is something very wrong with it. I had custody of a family member's GT500 ('11 w/ Electronics and SVTPP) for a while and I had no such issues. It took quite a while to be comfortable with liberally applying the throttle, but it was amazing how that car transformed after taking the time to get used to it.

Don't treat it like it's a 300HP IRS equipped near-lux sedan and it won't bite you.

This goes here as a single example, not the final word in the comparison, but it's worth a look. The GT500 is a 10k mile press mule too:

[Raja Ventureshield]

the wagon is awesome to say the least. I love it.

the build quality is amazing.. finally usa is fighting back with some nice cars.

[LSPowered]

Without a doubt I would buy a 09+ V. I was actually in the market to buy a new V at the end of 2011, but every dealer low balled me on the 335xi I had at the time. Took longer than expected to sell the 335xi & then I ended up in a C6 Vette.

V is the best bang for the buck in that price point if you need a backseat or 4 doors IMO.

[LSPowered]

Originally Posted by dreamspeed

Call me crazy but i'd actually buy a CTSV over a M5

For the low 40s range I think a BOSS 302 is an excellent choice.

Even better if you can work the laguna seca package in there somehow

Would be really tough call between V & E60 M5 for me. I love both of them a lot.

[LSPowered]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

I'm biased in the $38-42k range so my vote doesn't count, but I'd say a new mulletmobile (Coyote) w/ Track Pack and Recaros, you'd even have some money left over (if you don't suck at negotiating, because you can talk just about any dealer down close to invoice on the GTs) to get some FRPP stuff installed on delivery, which would be honored by the warranty at your dealer. I'm partial to buying new instead of used on cars that tempt the driver to flog them.

But I would definitely rock the CTS-V wagon or even the sedan. The coupe, not so much, but I wouldn't turn it down if it was my only option.

You are comparing apples to oranges. The V & Mustang do not compete.

[LSPowered]

Originally Posted by Lifted07Duramax

Anyone take an ISF over a CTSV?

No. Not enough car for the money w/the IS-F.

[TSM330i]

I'd buy one for sure! Lots of car for the money.

My boss has a black/black wagon that has the automatic.
A coworker of mine has a red/black 6-speed manual wagon with no sunroof that was a GM employee program car! He questioned why it didn't have the sunroof and from what he can find out, they were probably building the CTS-V racecars at the time (yes, they have to come off the assembly line) hence the 6-speed manual with no sunroof (they make similar cars in batches for ease of assembly). AWESOME car!

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by LSPowered

You are comparing apples to oranges. The V & Mustang do not compete.

OP's words:

Originally Posted by Lifted07Duramax

Other than if you would own a CTSV or not what do you all think is the best car you can get for $38-42k range wether it be used or new.

I wasn't comparing them. I was directly answering a question posed by the OP.

[nicknaz]

I wouldn't unless they have changed it to make the extra cooling equipment standard.

I test drove the coupe sedan and wagon at Autobahn Country Club in IL in 2011 and I overheated the sedan after only a few laps

There was also a C63 with performance package option that pulled hard all day long and stopped hard even with brake pads starting to smoke. That's the type of on track durability I expect from a sport sedan of this caliber

[boostfiend]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

There's no Track Pack on the pre-'13s, so I'm assuming you mean he's got the SVTPP?

Don't get me wrong, I'd take a BOSS for track duty any day over a GT500 (even the '13s), but it's not really fair to call the GT500 "a disaster on track" and imply it doesn't "actually turn". The iron block cars pushed excessively, but the Al block did wonders for that car. The newer ones still push, but in a much more manageable manner.

It takes a lot more seat time to get it right as opposed to the very neutral and predictable BOSS (or GT for that matter), but once you get it, you will keep up until you soak. Some cars just take more work and more care to drive faster. Look at the GT-R versus * debates (esp GT2 RS). Same concept but on a much faster scale of course.

If you get on 50% throttle and are having issues keeping it straight, that's definitely not the car's fault unless there is something very wrong with it. I had custody of a family member's GT500 ('11 w/ Electronics and SVTPP) for a while and I had no such issues. It took quite a while to be comfortable with liberally applying the throttle, but it was amazing how that car transformed after taking the time to get used to it.

Don't treat it like it's a 300HP IRS equipped near-lux sedan and it won't bite you.

This goes here as a single example, not the final word in the comparison, but it's worth a look. The GT500 is a 10k mile press mule too:

I was talking about the Track package on 2013 being even worst. Well i'm no pro driver but every Pro driver that has driven it says the same thing and very seasoned drivers as well. Unless you consider Randy Probst not being capable enough to conquer a measily GT500. The GT2RS vs GTR is understandable you are comparing an AWD car to a very angry GT2RS. That being said a GT2RS in a capable drivers had will walk a GTR all day. Where the GT500 is not the case but it in a capable drivers hand and you will get crushed by it's competition somewhat easily.

The car is really not a roadcourse car and it is atrocious there imo usable yes but it's 2013 the car is really not up too par. There's no hiding the fact you can't put power down coming out of the turns with the blower kicking boost in at the worst possible times. Not to mention the car gets killed by a ZL1 with 80HP less and almost 500lbs more curb weight (vs a 2013 GT500) that is pathetic in my eyes design a proper suspension for the car come on. Ford gave up on their nurburgring times because the test mule GT500s on full slicks couldn't even break into the mid 740s when a bone stock ZL1 on street tires is going 7:41... Don't get me wrong I love the car for it's hotrod presence and feel but when you have the best of SVT, Bilstein, Ford engineers and you still can't get the track package to get the car to be settled down is really weak. I'd put good money an e92 M3 would walk a 2013 GT500 pretty easily at the ring with it's 7:53 time I'd be astonished if a 13 could get sub 7:55s on Dot tires. The car makes 250hp+/250tq+ over a stock m3 only 275lbs~ heavier than stock m3 and yet it is much slower then an M3, well designed car not in my eyes. You should easily be able to walk an M3 with a GT500 but it is far from the case.

[boostfiend]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

I'd buy one for sure! Lots of car for the money.

My boss has a black/black wagon that has the automatic.
A coworker of mine has a red/black 6-speed manual wagon with no sunroof that was a GM employee program car! He questioned why it didn't have the sunroof and from what he can find out, they were probably building the CTS-V racecars at the time (yes, they have to come off the assembly line) hence the 6-speed manual with no sunroof (they make similar cars in batches for ease of assembly). AWESOME car!

Sounds like he might have got a Vlab car they use them for tracking and promotional purposes then sell them too dealers at GM auctions to resell to the public I've seen 2-3 without sunroofs at Cadillacs Vlabs when I went with a buddy who was invited after owning an early year CTS-V.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by boostfiend

I was talking about the Track package on 2013 being even worst. Well i'm no pro driver but every Pro driver that has driven it says the same thing and very seasoned drivers as well. Unless you consider Randy Probst not being capable enough to conquer a measily GT500. The GT2RS vs GTR is understandable you are comparing an AWD car to a very angry GT2RS. That being said a GT2RS in a capable drivers had will walk a GTR all day. Where the GT500 is not the case but it in a capable drivers hand and you will get crushed by it's competition somewhat easily.

The car is really not a roadcourse car and it is atrocious there imo usable yes but it's 2013 the car is really not up too par. There's no hiding the fact you can't put power down coming out of the turns with the blower kicking boost in at the worst possible times. Not to mention the car gets killed by a ZL1 with 80HP less and almost 500lbs more curb weight (vs a 2013 GT500) that is pathetic in my eyes design a proper suspension for the car come on. Ford gave up on their nurburgring times because the test mule GT500s on full slicks couldn't even break into the mid 740s when a bone stock ZL1 on street tires is going 7:41... Don't get me wrong I love the car for it's hotrod presence and feel but when you have the best of SVT, Bilstein, Ford engineers and you still can't get the track package to get the car to be settled down is really weak. I'd put good money an e92 M3 would walk a 2013 GT500 pretty easily at the ring with it's 7:53 time I'd be astonished if a 13 could get sub 7:55s on Dot tires. The car makes 250hp+/250tq+ over a stock m3 only 275lbs~ heavier than stock m3 and yet it is much slower then an M3, well designed car not in my eyes. You should easily be able to walk an M3 with a GT500 but it is far from the case.

OK I misunderstood, I thought you were talking about your buddy's car when you said it had the Track Pack. I just don't agree on the pre-'13s; they shouldn't be walking laterally when you're at 50% throttle and they do pretty well at the track before soak. I haven't driven a '13+ yet so I can't really say or understand what it's like. I do trust Pobst's opinion on these things, but he has flip-flopped on cars before, running them in one comparo and saying x, y, and z about it, then that same model pops up in another comparo and he says something in stark contrast to his previous review. But I respect his driving ability quite a bit.

The things you're saying about the '13 GT500 vs ZL-1, they can be said (in reversed roles) about the drag strip too. The Shelby obliterates the ZL-1 there. One car has all kinds of engineering into it which favors a road course, the other has the beans for the strip. Honestly, I don't think I'd take FI cars of this size to the track without upgrades well beyond what GM and Ford put on those cars from the factory (even after factory options), and even then I'd still take the BOSS and 1LE over their respective big brothers. The GT500 with a road-course package seems like lipstick on a pig to me, and I guess the ZL-1 seems like maybe lipstick on a half-woman, half-pig; depending on which half is the pig I might hit it though.

GM, as we've seen lately, is doing a helluva job with the Magic Ride Control (yes I know that's not the proper acronym but it literally does perform magic on that pig), and is making some great cars which can lap well beyond what you'd think based just off the stat sheets. I'm sure the next wave of Cadillac's V series cars will also impress people in that regard quite a bit. GM is doing great things, that Z/28 and 1LE are phenomenal.

And honestly how many people are going to go to Germany to track these cars...? Comparisons at VIR, Gingerman, Streets, etc... make much more sense to me. I hate to sound like an old curmudgeon, but I empathize with James May on the Nurburgring to a point. I wouldn't want to see it disappear, but I'd sure like it to not be the focal point of every conversation when it comes to comparing two cars with sporting pretensions. However, I know I'm guilty of feeding that beast too.

[boostfiend]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

OK I misunderstood, I thought you were talking about your buddy's car when you said it had the Track Pack. I just don't agree on the pre-'13s; they shouldn't be walking laterally when you're at 50% throttle and they do pretty well at the track before soak. I haven't driven a '13+ yet so I can't really say or understand what it's like. I do trust Pobst's opinion on these things, but he has flip-flopped on cars before, running them in one comparo and saying x, y, and z about it, then that same model pops up in another comparo and he says something in stark contrast to his previous review. But I respect his driving ability quite a bit.

The things you're saying about the '13 GT500 vs ZL-1, they can be said (in reversed roles) about the drag strip too. The Shelby obliterates the ZL-1 there. One car has all kinds of engineering into it which favors a road course, the other has the beans for the strip. Honestly, I don't think I'd take FI cars of this size to the track without upgrades well beyond what GM and Ford put on those cars from the factory (even after factory options), and even then I'd still take the BOSS and 1LE over their respective big brothers. The GT500 with a road-course package seems like lipstick on a pig to me, and I guess the ZL-1 seems like maybe lipstick on a half-woman, half-pig; depending on which half is the pig I might hit it though.

GM, as we've seen lately, is doing a helluva job with the Magic Ride Control (yes I know that's not the proper acronym but it literally does perform magic on that pig), and is making some great cars which can lap well beyond what you'd think based just off the stat sheets. I'm sure the next wave of Cadillac's V series cars will also impress people in that regard quite a bit. GM is doing great things, that Z/28 and 1LE are phenomenal.

And honestly how many people are going to go to Germany to track these cars...? Comparisons at VIR, Gingerman, Streets, etc... make much more sense to me. I hate to sound like an old curmudgeon, but I empathize with James May on the Nurburgring to a point. I wouldn't want to see it disappear, but I'd sure like it to not be the focal point of every conversation when it comes to comparing two cars with sporting pretensions. However, I know I'm guilty of feeding that beast too.

See that's what I mean the camaro isn't the best straight line car but at least it's capable of doing everything well. It just seems with GT500 they threw that idea out the window, really wouldn't be hard for them too pick up the phone call Bosch/BMI etc and make magnetic ride for the mustang. I just wish they would have put the effort they did into the Boss/Laguna Seca into the GT500 but it is far from the case. Honestly yes it goes mid-high 11s but even at that the car should be going very low 11s with 127mph trap speed so they couldn't even get launch control right I understand it's still a mustang but come on it's 50k+ i'd like some sophistication.

Compare a ZL1 to a GT500 on any road course you want it walks the floor with it put it on a real track that is more turns than straights and well it's game over expect easy 5sec+ differential lap to lap easily. VIR, Gingerman, Laguna Seca, all prove the advantages of the ZL1 to the GT500 but put it on track with lots of corners i.e. the ring and you can see the GT500 is so outdated with it's technology. Anyone can bolt a blower on a V8 and go mid 11s it's 2013 people have been doing it since the 70s lol.

[Lifted07Duramax]

Ok how about this instead of a CTSV for the $40k area.

A 08 Viper