[blutattoo]

Well Subaru, it looks like you have one potential buyer, and everyone else telling you you're doing it wrong.

Hey at least if you give it only 230hp you'll have plenty of room to improve without spending any more money on R&D.

STI, sheesh please, stupid marketing gimmick. Kinda like a M Sport package with twice the cost.

[Stohlen]

Sorry to burst everyones bubble

Originally Posted by torquemada

http://www.7tune.com/news-the-facts-...ti-ts-version/

No sooner had Subaru updated their STi website yesterday about the imminent release of a car wearing STi badges that the internet went berserk, with several major outlets claiming that an STi BRZ was imminent. The usual turbocharged rumours followed but I’m here with some facts from the source in order to clean the mess up…

The fact is, the STi website was updated yesterday with a few vague photos and this happened to coincide with the 86 festival at Fuji Speedway where Subaru unveiled their latest BRZ package. What a lot of people don’t realize or understand is that a “tS” branded Subaru and an “STi” branded Subaru are very different creatures.

Firstly, the bad news. There is no turbo charger. The BRZ tS will sport the same 200hp flat four boxer from the standard edition. It will also carry the same exhaust system as the standard car. Don’t be entirely disappointed though…

Subaru have dubbed their new model the BRZ tS for a few reasons. There appears to be quite a bit of confusion among a great many people as to what the difference is between a “tS” and an “STi”. Well, think of a tS Subaru as the “Light Tune” version of Subaru models. The parts are still made by STi but that’s where the market placement ends. The tS moniker literally stands for “Tuned by STi” and in most instances, mods are restricted to bolt on accessories in the exterior and interior departments with a few in reserve for the chassis and drivetrain.

An STi on the other hand is more of a “works package” with a lot more engine and drivetrain modifications thrown into the mix along with the afformentioned parts for the tS.

The BRZ tS will come in two grades, the BRZ tS “GT-package” and the standard BRZ tS package. What’s the difference you might be asking? Not a great deal, if you’re looking for a power upgrade unfortunately. The tS “GT pack” will come with a number of exterior mods including a dry carbon GT wing that was pulled from the Impreza RA STi parts shelf along with black multi spoke alloy wheels, Recaro front seats, shift knob, steering wheel button, kidney grill inserts, upgraded fog lamps and surrounding garnish, front under spoiler and side steps, strengthened driveshaft, Bilstein suspension upgrade and almost pointlessly, 6 pot Brembo brakes. 200hp will not take a lot of stopping.

The Standard BRZ tS makes do with a wingless arrangement, silver alloys and less trim additions, including the Recaro seats. Other than that, both have similar specs and both will come in 6 speed manual and automatic configurations. Subaru have announced that they will create 500 tS BRZ’s with the GT spec getting an allotment of 250 units.

Both cars are available for pre-order from Subaru from the 18th of this month with production to start in October and delivery shortly afterwards.

Prices for the GT package in Manual will start at around ¥4,090,000 ( USD $41,500 / AUD $46,600 ) with the slushbox tacking on another ¥100,000 ( USD $1000 / AUD $1150 ). As with so many special models from Subaru, neither of these cars is designated for international release.

This is sure to come as ( perhaps only slightly ) disappointing news for a lot of people, as many had anticipated a turbo release from Subaru but despite the erroneous claims on the internet by other outlets, along with claiming that there is no room in the engine bay for such a modification, Subaru is keeping very quiet about rumoured plans to include a full blown, official STi version to the lineup; something that anyone with enough forward thinking would realise is almost certain to happen in the future.

When that does happen is up for argument and debate but in the meantime, the aftermarket manufacturers have tuning enthusiasts covered for power upgrades.

One last point to consider is the timing for this release. Subaru plans to unveil a face-lifted model for the BRZ in October – at the same time these will officially go into production so what you are looking at is essentially a face-lift version of the 2014 release.

[Stohlen]

Subaru is likely not going to produce a full blown STI any time soon because it will directly compete with the WRX STI they already have. You'd be stealing sales away from yourself having two 300 horsepower cars.

For example people down south may be interested in the STI, it has 300 hp and AWD... they are sold on it and about to purchase. But then the see the RWD 300 hp BRZ, and think, i dont need AWD, we don't have winter and buy the BRZ instead. And at that moment they've stolen a sale away from themselves. Subaru isn't going to spend money to develop a car to fill a nonexistent void. They have a 300 hp turbocharged sports car... why make two? They wouldn't sell two times as many.

Yes, I would love it if they made a 300 hp BRZ, and I would probably buy one for my dd... but since they don't i'm going to buy an STI instead, granted it will probably be used and they'll miss out on my business as a result, but you get the idea haha

[Greenkirby21]

Originally Posted by Stohlen

Subaru is likely not going to produce a full blown STI any time soon because it will directly compete with the WRX STI they already have. You'd be stealing sales away from yourself having two 300 horsepower cars.

For example people down south may be interested in the STI, it has 300 hp and AWD... they are sold on it and about to purchase. But then the see the RWD 300 hp BRZ, and think, i dont need AWD, we don't have winter and buy the BRZ instead. And at that moment they've stolen a sale away from themselves. Subaru isn't going to spend money to develop a car to fill a nonexistent void. They have a 300 hp turbocharged sports car... why make two? They wouldn't sell two times as many.

Yes, I would love it if they made a 300 hp BRZ, and I would probably buy one for my dd... but since they don't i'm going to buy an STI instead, granted it will probably be used and they'll miss out on my business as a result, but you get the idea haha

IMO thats like saying a 135i steal sales from a 335i, which while maybe be true, they still coexist together.

The brz can realistically only seat 2 and has no AWD as you mentioned. The other one seats 5 and has AWD. Just because the engine is the same doesn't mean that the cars cannot coexist. The WRX also has a bigger trunk.

[Inspired]

Originally Posted by Stohlen

Subaru is likely not going to produce a full blown STI any time soon because it will directly compete with the WRX STI they already have. You'd be stealing sales away from yourself having two 300 horsepower cars.

For example people down south may be interested in the STI, it has 300 hp and AWD... they are sold on it and about to purchase. But then the see the RWD 300 hp BRZ, and think, i dont need AWD, we don't have winter and buy the BRZ instead. And at that moment they've stolen a sale away from themselves. Subaru isn't going to spend money to develop a car to fill a nonexistent void. They have a 300 hp turbocharged sports car... why make two? They wouldn't sell two times as many.

Yes, I would love it if they made a 300 hp BRZ, and I would probably buy one for my dd... but since they don't i'm going to buy an STI instead, granted it will probably be used and they'll miss out on my business as a result, but you get the idea haha

No it wont. Someone who is shopping for a sedan/wagon would rarely cross shop for a coupe.

If you look at the 135,335,535. They all have the same engine. But if you were in the market for a 535, it is pretty hard for someone to cross shop for a 135 and vice versa.

If Subaru made the BRZ Sti with 300HP, it wouldn't matter even if it took away some STi customers. It would attract even more different customers that were never even considering a BRZ to begin with. It would be a win/win situation for Subaru in my personal opinion.

[NoMore335]

No FI? FAIL!!!

[majin ssj eric]

Agree with everyone else. Needs more power to be a proper STi. And ditch that hideous wing...

[Nkc]

Makes perfect sense as a tS model instead of a true STi. Even the guys at Subaru would be embarrassed calling it an STi, they got a reputation to maintain.

For those who think it would cannibalize sales for the WRX, come on, the BRZ is a RWD coupe. Its a totally different market segment.

[Billup]

Originally Posted by Nkc

Makes perfect sense as a tS model instead of a true STi. Even the guys at Subaru would be embarrassed calling it an STi, they got a reputation to maintain.

For those who think it would cannibalize sales for the WRX, come on, the BRZ is a RWD coupe. Its a totally different market segment.

It does make sense that they would make a tS model, however, why would they want to have the STI label on there as well, full knowing of how the market would react. Unless they plan to give owners that feeling of being a part of the STI "group" indirectly.

And even if it did bastardize WRX sales (which it probably won't), Subaru still profits..., don't see why that would be an issue.

[Stohlen]

Originally Posted by Greenkirby21

IMO thats like saying a 135i steal sales from a 335i, which while maybe be true, they still coexist together.

The brz can realistically only seat 2 and has no AWD as you mentioned. The other one seats 5 and has AWD. Just because the engine is the same doesn't mean that the cars cannot coexist. The WRX also has a bigger trunk.

But when you start buying an STI, you're not buying because it has AWD or trunk space... sure that might be a consideration, but its not why you're buying the car.

Its like comparing a 1M and a M3. Realistically, BMW lost some M3 sales when they started selling the 1M in 2011. The same thing would happen if they sold a BRZ STI. Its considered an all out performance car so people aren't necessarily going to make a choice based on drive type or cargo room and rather looks, sound, handling, etc. Subaru just hasn't seen enough of a market yet unique to the brand to justify the cost of making two different STI models.

You may not like it, but its just the truth of it. If Subaru thought they could make money, they would have done it by now!

[Stohlen]

The WRX STI is Subaru's baby, it has all of the heritage. They aren't going to do anything to risk its sales. No yet.

[Year's_End]

The fact is that BRZs are still selling strongly. They could be holding off on a high-po model for various reason; existing model sales haven't tapered significantly, a "tS" model can provide a boost from a marketing perspective, and they might even have some non-publicized agreement with Toyota as far as STi restrictions go.

Everyone is acting like they have the experience and size to match this company's marketing department. Why don't you go ahead and apply with your brilliant ideas... I'm sure you know what's better for their sales.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by blutattoo

Well Subaru, it looks like you have one potential buyer, and everyone else telling you you're doing it wrong.

Hey at least if you give it only 230hp you'll have plenty of room to improve without spending any more money on R&D.

STI, sheesh please, stupid marketing gimmick. Kinda like a M Sport package with twice the cost.

I don't know why you're getting worked up. That's literally what it is.

Nobody cries and moans about these wannabe-M and AMG packages.

[imserious]

No one suspects it has to do with their partnership with Toyota? Toyota doesn't really have an STi brand and Subaru may not be willing to share that tech with Toyota. Toyota may have told Subaru that they can't come out with FI model because it would destroy Scion sales. TRD badge and oil caps and fenders Toyota can do.

Does this make sense or am I watching too many conspiracy documentaries on Netflix?

Which begs the question, why in the world do car companies do these joint projects? They don't really seem to go anywhere. Matrix/Vibe anyone? Granted the FRS/BRZ is great in its current form, but it could be SO MUCH BETTER.

[kyleb350]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

The fact is that BRZs are still selling strongly. They could be holding off on a high-po model for various reason; existing model sales haven't tapered significantly, a "tS" model can provide a boost from a marketing perspective, and they might even have some non-publicized agreement with Toyota as far as STi restrictions go.

Everyone is acting like they have the experience and size to match this company's marketing department. Why don't you go ahead and apply with your brilliant ideas... I'm sure you know what's better for their sales.

True, but Subaru should look at the money being thrown at the aftermarket for these and try to take a bite out of it by having options from the factory.

[BMW269]

"tS" means "tuned by STI". It has STI parts just like you can have BMW M performance parts for your BMW. It is not a BRZ STI. The BRZ STI is yet to come, but first Subaru will release the WRX, then BRZ STI and then WRX STI.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Levi

The BRZ STI is yet to come, but first Subaru will release the WRX, then BRZ STI and then WRX STI.

Following the FT86 forums, I very much agree with this timeline. I plan on waiting to see what the BRZ STi is like, but would actually be happy with the base model. I expect there to be a discount to MSRP once the STi version is available.

[ptack]

$41k for some badges and glitter - really? Sounds like they are learning from BMW and, as metioned, this is very much still a joint venture with Toyota with mutually ageed prices and features. The only way you will see an STI version is if that partnership expires or if they both upgrade the power. Toyota could certainly use such a car, but they also just annouced a partnership with BMW to probably develop such a car though presumably for the Lexus line.

[Raja Ventureshield]

nice.

[chmura]

I'm not surprised by the low HP numbers for the BRZ STI.

The new WRX STI will be coming out soon so there has to be enough performance gap between the two vehicles. STI runs at $40k basically so Subaru definitely does not want to cannibalize its flagship WRX STI sales.

[Red Bread]

I still don't get the talk of BRZ sales cannibalizing STI or WRX sales. I have absolutely no interest in a fwd based car like the Impreza, no matter how much power it has. Even heavily tuned, the STI understeers. The BRZ is balanced, can be steered with the throttle, doesn't weigh nearly as much and has a much better shifter feel than any Impreza.

An M3 an X5 50i and an Active Hybrid 5 all cost about the same, have similar power and probably never get cross shopped against each other. The same is true of the BRZ and the WRX/STI.

[Twix]

I would say That 230 ponies is fine, but the fact I know that little 4 banger will have under 150 ft-lbs of torque saddens me. Also the gay wing is well, gay.

If STi lets this one out like this, I'll lose all respect I have for the only Japanese company I have respect for