[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by pgviper

Someone care to explain this?

Definitely an explanation: the GT's performance package is simply too conservatively setup compared to the SS's 1LE equipment. The only excuse Ford should have is that they haven't marketed this as a track package like the 1LE (which was aimed at the S197 BOSS).

Big differences in the package setups:

1) The GTPP is running on 255F/275R P Zeros. So they're not only smaller than the 1LE's square 285s, the compound itself simply cannot keep up with the 1LE's Eagle Supercar G2s. They just generate more mechanical grip.

2) The 1LE's spring and damper rates are simply more aggressively tuned. The GT's PP replaces the front springs with a stiffer set, but surprisingly leaves the rear untouched. The PP does have stiffer dampers and adds a brace for the strut towers and K-member underneath, and it also adds a stiffer sway bar. But they're just too conservatively rated, and you can see that in this video.

And that's the issue. Tires are a huge component for any performance vehicle, and the Mustang is running on outclassed, smaller compounds with a suspension that can't keep the body in check when riding at 10/10ths. The first three modifications any S550 GT owner should do are:

-A full set of stiffer coilovers with a stronger rear bias to get rid of some of the understeer
-Ditch the shitty P Zeros and plug on some PSSs
-Swap out the pipes starting with that restrictive crossover cat and get an additional 20+ WHP

Everything else about the car is great. The interior's in a different class. The chassis in white is 25% stiffer. There's twice as much additional safety equipment over the S197, and Randy waxed poetically about the shifter and brakes. It could use a little more power and a better tied down suspension, and the chassis can handle that for sure. It's going to be a modders dream platform.

I'll say this though: nothing (under 60k) can match the sound of those LS/LT pushrods. The 1LE is a hell of a car. I just cannot stand the looks, the fan base, the interior, and the company.

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by pgviper

With that train of thought then every new model should perform worst than the old one...

Sorry bud but that makes no sense.

Being a chevy guy, i'm pretty happy with the outcome!

Why would that be? The new 2015 GT handles way better than the old GT. The 2016 base Alpha SS will handle better than the base 2015 SS.

Would you agree the 2015 SS 1LE handles much better than the original 2010 SS? It's way better - because they've had time time to work on refining the chassis. Just how the 2018 or whatever Mustang GT will be better than the 2015. In this case the older, but more developed chassis beats the new chassis that hasn't been fully developed.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

Definitely an explanation: the GT's performance package is simply too conservatively setup compared to the SS's 1LE equipment. The only excuse Ford should have is that they haven't marketed this as a track package like the 1LE (which was aimed at the S197 BOSS).

I agree with this. I don't believe it was a like for like comparison. With that said, Ford definitely has the basis from which to build some amazing Mustang variants. I know for one, if all the rumors are correct the GT350 is going to blow people's minds.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

Definitely an explanation: the GT's performance package is simply too conservatively setup compared to the SS's 1LE equipment. The only excuse Ford should have is that they haven't marketed this as a track package like the 1LE (which was aimed at the S197 BOSS).

Big differences in the package setups:

1) The GTPP is running on 255F/275R P Zeros. So they're not only smaller than the 1LE's square 285s, the compound itself simply cannot keep up with the 1LE's Eagle Supercar G2s. They just generate more mechanical grip.

2) The 1LE's spring and damper rates are simply more aggressively tuned. The GT's PP replaces the front springs with a stiffer set, but surprisingly leaves the rear untouched. The PP does have stiffer dampers and adds a brace for the strut towers and K-member underneath, and it also adds a stiffer sway bar. But they're just too conservatively rated, and you can see that in this video.

And that's the issue. Tires are a huge component for any performance vehicle, and the Mustang is running on outclassed, smaller compounds with a suspension that can't keep the body in check when riding at 10/10ths. The first three modifications any S550 GT owner should do are:

-A full set of stiffer coilovers with a stronger rear bias to get rid of some of the understeer
-Ditch the shitty P Zeros and plug on some PSSs
-Swap out the pipes starting with that restrictive crossover cat and get an additional 20+ WHP

Everything else about the car is great. The interior's in a different class. The chassis in white is 25% stiffer. There's twice as much additional safety equipment over the S197, and Randy waxed poetically about the shifter and brakes. It could use a little more power and a better tied down suspension, and the chassis can handle that for sure. It's going to be a modders dream platform.

I'll say this though: nothing (under 60k) can match the sound of those LS/LT pushrods. The 1LE is a hell of a car. I just cannot stand the looks, the fan base, the interior, and the company.

Everything you said makes 100% sense. I just don't understand why if they have such a great platform, they wouldn't set up a "performance package" to perform better than their rivals equivalent. Maybe i'm missing the point but usually the "modding potential" is not how a company likes to sell their cars.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by pgviper

Everything you said makes 100% sense. I just don't understand why if they have such a great platform, they wouldn't set up a "performance package" to perform better than their rivals equivalent. Maybe i'm missing the point but usually the "modding potential" is not how a company likes to sell their cars.

Honestly, fuck if I know why. I can only imagine that it all has to do with the perspective of their product lineup.

The '15 GT PP will take a solid shit on a '14 GT TP, and preliminary testing (lap times at circuits we've seen thus far) show the '15 beating Boss times, but it's still behind the 1LE, which also beat the Boss pretty darn well.

So the GT PP is well ahead of its technical predecessor; it just can't oust the 1LE. An apples to apples would be the upcoming GT350.

I think we'll have the following:
-EB base (plus the redhead stepchild V6)
-GT mainstream performance
-GT350 mainstream track
-GT500 hi-po max street

Wild cards are the Mach and Boss nameplate, plus a supposed GT350R developed for the Z28.

Can't wait to see how this gen unfolds.

[Kolyan2k]

Not a fan of that Camaro. Ford nailed it with Mustang

[Ezio]

anyone kind of disappointed in the mustangs performance numbers ?

it seems only marginally better than the last GT.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by Ezio

anyone kind of disappointed in the mustangs performance numbers ?

it seems only marginally better than the last GT.

Its actually better then previous Boss, plus they do need room for GT350 etc

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by Ezio

anyone kind of disappointed in the mustangs performance numbers ?

it seems only marginally better than the last GT.

Not really. I am more interested in handling, steering, and overall driving feel of the car. From all the reviews in those aspects the new mustang is much better than the out going model. The base GT laps faster than the old Boss. Straight line performance isn't a giant leap, but everything else seems to be a step ahead. Plus if you want more hp, just slap a Ford Racing supercharger on.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

Not really. I am more interested in handling, steering, and overall driving feel of the car. From all the reviews in those aspects the new mustang is much better than the out going model. The base GT laps faster than the old Boss. Straight line performance isn't a giant leap, but everything else seems to be a step ahead. Plus if you want more hp, just slap a Ford Racing supercharger on.

i can respect a better handling car, as i drive a m3. But IMO i was hoping for a car that was more on par with F80 handling and straight line speed. i need both of these fields to be good to respect the car.

I saw 0-60 and 1/4 mile times that are no faster than the last GT. that is disappointing....

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by Ezio

i can respect a better handling car, as i drive a m3. But IMO i was hoping for a car that was more on par with F80 handling and straight line speed. i need both of these fields to be good to respect the car.

I saw 0-60 and 1/4 mile times that are no faster than the last GT. that is disappointing....

The base GT wasn't ever going to match or exceed M4 performance. Not at that price point. Other versions will come out and put up a better fight. Like the last Boss Laguna Seca. The new GT350 is going to murder the new M4. Straight line isn't a surprise considering it basically uses the same coyote 5.0 and weighs a bit more.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

The base GT wasn't ever going to match or exceed M4 performance. Not at that price point. Other versions will come out and put up a better fight. Like the last Boss Laguna Seca. The new GT350 is going to murder the new M4. Straight line isn't a surprise considering it basically uses the same coyote 5.0 and weighs a bit more.

See for me I dont find it really acceptable for the mustang not get a bump is straight line performance. thats just me though.

i am actually happy the GT does have m4 performance though. I just laughed little with i hear those 1/4 mile times. they shouldn't be a problem for road racing lol

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by Ezio

See for me I dont find it really acceptable for the mustang not get a bump is straight line performance. thats just me though.

i am actually happy the GT does have m4 performance though. I just laughed little with i hear those 1/4 mile times. they shouldn't be a problem for road racing lol

I'll chime in with an optimistic viewpoint: there is a ton of potential left on the table. The Coyote aftermarket is vast, reliable, and really affordable. This car shouldn't have a problem hitting 500 at the crank with full bolt-ons... maybe $5,000 at the most. You've got a great starting platform and a good interior.

The M4 undercuts the S550 GT's curb by a solid 250 lbs and is a whole lot stiffer. Everything about the car is great (save for the noise ). You should have no issue getting the GT in the same realm for $5-10k worth of work, which still makes the thing a huge bargain. And you won't end up with something that has a crap interior after you've brought the performance side of things up to speed.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

I'll chime in with an optimistic viewpoint: there is a ton of potential left on the table. The Coyote aftermarket is vast, reliable, and really affordable. This car shouldn't have a problem hitting 500 at the crank with full bolt-ons... maybe $5,000 at the most. You've got a great starting platform and a good interior.

The M4 undercuts the S550 GT's curb by a solid 250 lbs and is a whole lot stiffer. Everything about the car is great (save for the noise ). You should have no issue getting the GT in the same realm for $5-10k worth of work, which still makes the thing a huge bargain. And you won't end up with something that has a crap interior after you've brought the performance side of things up to speed.

i always thought using the whole after market thing was a not fair. Sure anycar can be modded. and i agree this mustang is a really good platform. i am just a bit shocked at how slow the new GT is in a straight line from factory.

i mean if the F80 M3 posted the same straight line speeds as the E92 there would be problems.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by Ezio

i always thought using the whole after market thing was a not fair. Sure anycar can be modded. and i agree this mustang is a really good platform. i am just a bit shocked at how slow the new GT is in a straight line from factory.

i mean if the F80 M3 posted the same straight line speeds as the E92 there would be problems.

Fair points I guess. I think it's wholly improved in the areas that needed it most, and the areas that could use improving are an affordable step away (and the easiest to improve upon).

I wasn't bringing up the aftermarket on a competitive basis with the F8X, just trying to emphasize how great of a deal it's going to be for buyers like us.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

Fair points I guess. I think it's wholly improved in the areas that needed it most, and the areas that could use improving are an affordable step away (and the easiest to improve upon).

I wasn't bringing up the aftermarket on a competitive basis with the F8X, just trying to emphasize how great of a deal it's going to be for buyers like us.

yes i agree i think the car is really nice. I was just little taken back. I think maybe ford has the GT right where they want it. they cant just keep making the base V8 stupid fast. like the GT500 lol.

its a solid car, and i live in MI near the big 3 (in fact the main dodge/Chrysler headquarters is a mile away from my house) . I want this car to do well. I think the stingray corvette did well , and i think the new gen mustang will also.

[Kolyan2k]

Its already running 12.8 1/4 mile, 0-60 @ 4.4 sec. stock with tires that aren't that great. Next Boss or whatever will probably match M4 numbers

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by Ezio

yes i agree i think the car is really nice. I was just little taken back. I think maybe ford has the GT right where they want it. they cant just keep making the base V8 stupid fast. like the GT500 lol.

I just think it is a case of them reusing the coyote drivetrain(a great one at that) and focusing more on the new IRS/chassis/refinement. The slight hp bump is nullified by the increase in weight. For the mustang crowd, they have an engine that already has a plethora of aftermarket support. My guess is the next gen mustang will have an all new mill powering it, with weight reduction and even more refinement of the new IRS.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

Why would that be? The new 2015 GT handles way better than the old GT. The 2016 base Alpha SS will handle better than the base 2015 SS.

Would you agree the 2015 SS 1LE handles much better than the original 2010 SS? It's way better - because they've had time time to work on refining the chassis. Just how the 2018 or whatever Mustang GT will be better than the 2015. In this case the older, but more developed chassis beats the new chassis that hasn't been fully developed.

Ford and Chevy have been dueling it out for years!!! No matter what either of them says, the mustang and camaro are direct competitors. It's been this way since the beginning of time. I have yet to see a good repsonse as to why Ford would create a track pack that is in clear competition with a camaro track package and not produce something that performs better. This new mustang has been in development for years and the 1le has been out for several years. No excuses in my book.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by pgviper

Ford and Chevy have been dueling it out for years!!! No matter what either of them says, the mustang and camaro are direct competitors. It's been this way since the beginning of time. I have yet to see a good repsonse as to why Ford would create a track pack that is in clear competition with a camaro track package and not produce something that performs better. This new mustang has been in development for years and the 1le has been out for several years. No excuses in my book.

Mustang PP is street oriented, Camaro PP is track oriented.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by pgviper

Ford and Chevy have been dueling it out for years!!! No matter what either of them says, the mustang and camaro are direct competitors. It's been this way since the beginning of time. I have yet to see a good repsonse as to why Ford would create a track pack that is in clear competition with a camaro track package and not produce something that performs better. This new mustang has been in development for years and the 1le has been out for several years. No excuses in my book.

In this case, I don't believe the two packages are like for like. To be honest, it won't take much for Ford to up the power and handling, with some sort of package or special addition. Just early days.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

Its already running 12.8 1/4 mile, 0-60 @ 4.4 sec. stock with tires that aren't that great. Next Boss or whatever will probably match M4 numbers

but a stock 2011 GT is already doing the same thing with bad tires. lol