[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by aerobod

The adjusted time after the 2019 changes would be about 8:00 for the F87 on the new track layout, that was 7:38 for the G87, from times I have seen between the PSS and PS4S, it is more like 1.5 secs in a 2 minutes lap, perhaps adjusting the F87 to 7:56.

From the addition of front camber and 305 tyres on the Jackie Ding time attack car and based on his previous F87 experience, he sees a lot more potential in the G87 chassis. The CLAR G87 chassis amongst all other factors is just much stiffer than the F87 chassis, not something that can be easily compensated for. BMW quotes about 25% better torsional rigidity in G-series cars than F-series cars, besides any improvement in the suspension pickup point locations.

Originally Posted by M2siast

Oh pardon my lack of clarity too! I didn’t understand you said the F87 was “quicker” than the G87.
I meant you said the F87 would’ve been quicker than the F87 if it had run the same Nordschleife track the G87 did (which is longer, and adds about 8 seconds to the old time).
I was being facetious because you seemed to have implied “discounting the difference in track length the difference could be even smaller”, (paraphrased) where the truth is if the tracks were the same the difference would be LARGER. Get it?

I got the last bit confused, because Nordschleife times also got faster by a few seconds due to the new patch (compared to pre-2018.)

In that case, I think it is more appropriate to discuss the 13 sec difference.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Dude, you can keep your whining to yourself. Enjoy your auto.

At leaat I am not ignorant...and I will be glad to line up next to you and blow your manual doors off.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Please read my language carefully. I did not say G87 isn't faster stock to stock. I simply believe F87 has a higher "potential" because it weighs much less in stock form, and I've seen how light it can be.

Many OEM suspension modifications, such as wider tracks, stiffer anti-roll bars, and softer rear springs were made to G87 to accommodate the additional weight of the engine and the chassis. When you start stripping the car for race spec, that inherent weight becomes a liability, and whatever advantage the additional bracing had becomes less apparent because lighter cars simply have higher momentum when paired with a suitable suspension.

You do realize the S58 is far superior to the S55 AND has far more reliability and potential than the inferior S55.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

You do realize the S58 is far superior to the S55 AND has far more reliability and potential than the inferior S55.

Read my other posts. You are confusing G87/F87 with the engines. These are chassis codes.

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

At leaat I am not ignorant...and I will be glad to line up next to you and blow your manual doors off.

Yes... I am sure you are very mature.

[MmmmmM2]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

You do realize the S58 is far superior to the S55 AND has far more reliability and potential than the inferior S55.

HOWEVER, when it comes to working on an S55 or S58, just remember the S58 has the VANOS behind the engine and the S55 has it in front, hence it is cheaper to work on an S55 than an S58.

[Tornado1M]

I’m going to agree with the overwhelming majority here that this G87 just doesn’t look right…..I’d prefer the M240 which just looks cleaner in my opinion.

However, neither come close to the F87 with respect to looks.

Now, options out there are low for new cars in this category…so, I can see on price to value for this kind of car….buyers are basically just getting it because there is not much else. Rear wheel drive manual that is!

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by MmmmmM2

HOWEVER, when it comes to working on an S55 or S58, just remember the S58 has the VANOS behind the engine and the S55 has it in front, hence it is cheaper to work on an S55 than an S58.

The VANOS on the B58 / S58 has not proven to be a weak point from a hydraulics perspective, as it was in the N55 / S55 and earlier engines. You can also replace the solenoids on the B58 / S58 with the engine in place, with no significant weak points in the engine design otherwise, unlike some of the N55 / S55 issues such as crank walk.

[MineralGreyMetallic]

Originally Posted by Tornado1M

I’m going to agree with the overwhelming majority here that this G87 just doesn’t look right…..I’d prefer the M240 which just looks cleaner in my opinion.

However, neither come close to the F87 with respect to looks.

Now, options out there are low for new cars in this category…so, I can see on price to value for this kind of car….buyers are basically just getting it because there is not much else. Rear wheel drive manual that is!

This is a great point. The look of the car has definitely grown on me, but if I want an "updated" version of my 6 year old 2017, where do I go?

Seems like the G87 is the only option.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Read my other posts. You are confusing G87/F87 with the engines. These are chassis codes.

I don't really understand the argument you are trying to make. BMW engine swaps are not exactly a common thing.

So in practical terms, F87 DOES means N55, and G87 means S58. There's no reason to pretend othewise.

Now, given an equivalent amount of modding, the G87 beats F87. Handily. It handles better, it brakes better, it has a more powerful motor (with a higher ceiling), it has better cooling. A few hundred pounds in stock weight isn't going to counteract all the advantages the G87 has.

So I think the G87 has the higher ceiling.

Edit: If you mean the F87 FAMILY (the F87C and F87CS), then maybe there's an argument to be made. But the base F87 with N55 is not competitive.

[Geighty7]

People arguing about cars is so silly. Get what you want and don’t make fun of what others want/have. Simple.

I love my G87. It’s fast af. I think it is sexy af. I spent good money getting one of my dream cars. I’m happy.

Do others agree on the looks? Maybe maybe not. Do I care? Not one bit.

Line it up if you think you’re faster or better! If not, mind you our own car and take care.

To each their own!

[murderspice]

Originally Posted by M2siast

You must be new here. (Good for you)
You’ll notice that every time a thread gets popular or is featured on Bimmerpost’s homepage, the rats come up from the sewers to chew on our rugs… you’ll learn to ignore them.

I used to refer to them as F87/G42 bros. But they come in all shapes and forms.

I agree with you though, otherwise I’d be all over the F87/G42 threads telling them how ugly and slow their cars are… imagine that… we have enough internal drama here in the G87 forum lol

Again, proving the worst part about the new m2 is its owners.

[idriveuscream]

Chris Harris Drives The New BMW M2 - "I was wrong...sensational...it might be one of the best all rounders I have ever driven." Wow. And this guy loves the "beautiful" F87 M2 competition. I think the F87 is a beautiful car how could anyone make a serious argument that it's ugly. There seems to be a good bit of confirmation bias and intellectual dishonesty on this particular thread but that's okay, passion tends to do that. I have watched countless G87 review videos and they all have one thing in common, it doesn't matter if the reviewer is already bias "for" or "against" the new G87, once they are behind the wheel and driving, every single one of them is giddy with enthusiasm. Again and again reviewers who are heavily negative, get in, start driving, start shaking their heads, start smiling, and they are won over big time. S58 check. My goodness that alone.

[murderspice]

Originally Posted by M2siast

What are you doing here?

Having owned the first gen i was interested in seeing what bmw followed up with; hence, “why im here.” Apparently, only sycophants are welcome. And hopefully you noticed that i did not comment on the qualities of the car, but on my impression of their owners, to which you did not disappoint.

[MineralGreyMetallic]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the spirit of this thread.

Criticisms are welcome and discussion is appreciated, from my perspective. No car is perfect. Just don't let it devolve into a pissing contest.

[MMMGuy60]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Fully agreed.
Now, think about it: there are possibly two reasons to engage in a car forum of a specific car:

1- you like said car
2- you enjoy the conversation with owners of said car

Since you:
1- don’t like the G87, and own an F87
2- don’t like the G87 owners and the forum

What are you doing here?

Oh, wait, it’s option number 3!
Let me do the same, and go to the other ugly cars forums and express my feelings about how ugly their cars are!
And since I have so much free time and I’m such a great human being, I won’t just stop at Bimmerpost’s forums (which ones are popular now? M3? XM? 7-series? X2? 1-series?), I’ll find some more time to go to other brands’ forums too! The world needs me. Hang on, be right back.

Let's be real, the only reason the F87 owners are here is because the F87 forum is dead. Nobody pays any attention to his car because it is dated and old. The only reaction he gets is by being a troll/hater here.

I think the F87 looks like a secretary car, but you do not see me going to the f87 forum. Adding another F87 owner/hater to my ignore/block list.

[OUGrad05]

Originally Posted by idriveuscream

Chris Harris Drives The New BMW M2 - "I was wrong...sensational...it might be one of the best all rounders I have ever driven." Wow. And this guy loves the "beautiful" F87 M2 competition. I think the F87 is a beautiful car how could anyone make a serious argument that it's ugly. There seems to be a good bit of confirmation bias and intellectual dishonesty on this particular thread but that's okay, passion tends to do that. I have watched countless G87 review videos and they all have one thing in common, it doesn't matter if the reviewer is already bias "for" or "against" the new G87, once they are behind the wheel and driving, every single one of them is giddy with enthusiasm. Again and again reviewers who are heavily negative, get in, start driving, start shaking their heads, start smiling, and they are won over big time. S58 check. My goodness that alone.

He loves it, he loves cars and he's a great reviewer.

I've driven one and it's damn impressive. BUT...I'm still not sure if I'd go M2 or M3. M3 is bigger with very...very similar performance.

Haven't totally given up on Porsche either.

Edit: Also why do so many devolve to shit posting? A great thing about cars and watches is that there's something for everyone. Disagreement is great but some of you folks get downright insulting because someone disagrees over the shape of a car.

[idriveuscream]

What have they done to the M2 !!! In reality, not much, made it boxier and a couple of inches bigger. In Karen and Ken's irrational world "they ruined it!"

Side by side pictures of the f87 and g87 speak for themselves. Yes, there are differences as any rational person would expect when a car manufacturer releases a new version. It wouldn't be new if there were no changes. "But they want too far!!!," says Karen. It's boxier, that's about it. Looking at these pictures, most people who are not car enthusiasts would probably view the degree to which the car was changed to be modest at best.

[JG13]

Originally Posted by idriveuscream

What have they done to the M2 !!! In reality, not much, made it boxier and a couple of inches bigger. In Karen and Ken's irrational world "they ruined it!"

Side by side pictures of the f87 and g87 speak for themselves. Yes, there are differences as any rational person would expect when a car manufacturer releases a new version. It wouldn't be new if there were no changes. "But they want too far!!!," says Karen. It's boxier, that's about it. Looking at these pictures, most people who are not car enthusiasts would probably view the degree to which the car was changed to be modest at best.

It's boxier and way wider. It gives E30 M3.

This car will age incredibly well. If you wanna complain about drastic design changes, look no further than it's big brother the M3/M4.

[Geighty7]

Originally Posted by OUGrad05

He loves it, he loves cars and he's a great reviewer.

I've driven one and it's damn impressive. BUT...I'm still not sure if I'd go M2 or M3. M3 is bigger with very...very similar performance.

Haven't totally given up on Porsche either.

Edit: Also why do so many devolve to shit posting? A great thing about cars and watches is that there's something for everyone. Disagreement is great but some of you folks get downright insulting because someone disagrees over the shape of a car.

I battled with the same. M2 or M3? I ultimately purchased a 24 M2 and it was the perfect choice for me. Why?

1. Smaller, go kart feeling with the same engine.

2. I love the looks. Always have, always will. Some don’t, all good.

3. Interior is give or take the same.

4. I wanted a 6MT. Yes you can get the M3 in 6MT, but why would you do that when the M3 comp (and x-drive) exists?

5. I have an excuse to not have friends “ride along” because I can’t fit them lol.

6. It’s unique. Every G80 I pull up on or that pulls up on me shows me respect with the simple head nod or quick rev. I can’t say the same about the G82’s because unortunately they are stuck with a boat of a car and just upset about it (oops I said it).

If I never got a G87, I would be in the G80 all day as my love for that car will never diminish and I respect the hell out of it.

It’s really what best fits your lifestyle I would say. Can’t go wrong with either!

As for Porsche- GT3 Touring 6MT is my current dream car. I can’t justify owning a Porsche unless it is a GT3 Touring. Anything under that and I’d just be envious. But that’s just me.

[Squidget]

For me, I just like coupes more than saloons.

I like the look, improved sightlines, reduced buffeting, and the easier-to-wash roofline. I also like that the M2 is more tailhappy than the M3, but in a controllable way.

So even if the M3 were the same price I'd prefer the M2, the fact that the M2 is cheaper is just a bonus. But I don't have kids, if I did I'd probably get an M3.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Geighty7

As for Porsche- GT3 Touring 6MT is my current dream car. I can’t justify owning a Porsche unless it is a GT3 Touring. Anything under that and I’d just be envious. But that’s just me.

Great choice. Out of my price range, but from everything I've seen, it's a near perfect all-rounder.

[Geighty7]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Great choice. Out of my price range, but from everything I've seen, it's a near perfect all-rounder.

Same. That’s why I’m driving a G87 M2 6MT

Here are some envious photos I took at my PPF shop of customers GT3’s (2 touring) all 6MT.