[augerpro]

Nismo Z didn't need more horsepower to whup dat M2 azz on a track: https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ning-lap-2024/

[chris719]

Originally Posted by augerpro

Nismo Z didn't need more horsepower to whup dat M2 azz on a track: https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ning-lap-2024/

M2 had worn tires and this result is an outlier.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by augerpro

Nismo Z didn't need more horsepower to whup dat M2 azz on a track: https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ning-lap-2024/

Except it didn't. The G87 that showed up to the test was
a. The heaviest spec, sunroof, normal seats, yada yada yada
b. Came in on worn tires
c. Came in late so they only ran 4 total laps

Had the car actually come on a fresh set of CUP2s, had the carbon package, and most importantly, had more than a couple of warm up laps and a couple of laps to get times, there would have been a minimum of 4 seconds. The G87 is significantly faster than the NISMO Z around a track, they're not even in the same class in terms of performance.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by augerpro

Nismo Z didn't need more horsepower to whup dat M2 azz on a track: https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ning-lap-2024/

the mental horsepower needed to draw conclusions from C&D's paddock of remedial drivers, and then make a comment like this, is surely a number in the negatives.

[///M TOWN]

You’re not wrong Lev

The new Z is extremely old news

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

You’re not wrong Lev

The new Z is extremely old news

Literally, Nissan is insane for charging what it does for these cars. And creating scarcity? Who do they think they are, Porsche?

[baron95]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

performance spec with an MT and LSD etc is 52k. that would be the one to in theory buy, the nismo is outrageously priced and they will make about 4 and a half of them.

But all the reviewers say the non NISMO handle like trash, and the performance numbers suck.

I don’t understand why Toyota and Nissan lost the ability to produce sports cars.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by baron95

But all the reviewers say the non NISMO handle like trash, and the performance numbers suck.

I don’t understand why Toyota and Nissan lost the ability to produce sports cars.

That’s what happens when you take your eye off the ball… ⚽️

[baron95]

Originally Posted by augerpro

Nismo Z didn't need more horsepower to whup dat M2 azz on a track: https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ning-lap-2024/

Correct. All it took was for the 300lbs driver of the heaviest possible M2 spec to be able to do only a few rushed laps at the end of the day, where he was scared like a lost puppy of the M2 and drove her like trash.

That M2 lap is nowhere representative of a proper M2 lap. But yes, a win is a win, I guess.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

Just a wasted effort on Nissan's part. Could've been a beast...

This car (non Nismo) was getting walked in track tests by the 240hp BRZ. It's safe to say Nissan just threw in the towel. This car is hot garbage.

[NYAWE60]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Literally, Nissan is insane for charging what it does for these cars. And creating scarcity? Who do they think they are, Porsche?

Nissan is toast, they just can't seem to deliver, the level of disconnect when it came to this current gen Z is indicative of a larger problem a the company. The folks in the seats making the executive decisions when it came to this product are seriously delusional. This is coming from a former 350Z, 370Z and R32 GTR owner.

And for what its worth, people are getting tired Porsche and their bullshit too. Purposely limiting production, increasing the base prices by no less than $15K and dealers charging insane markups on BASE CARS has seriously turned me off. The base 911 was supposed to be the people's sports car. Now it seems like the owners of base cars are elitist pricks that place themselves in the same category of the even more elitist prick GT3/GT3 RS owners.

I know I went off on a tangent here but as a 911 owner and fanatic, its been very upsetting. That said, the G87 in competition spec when it becomes available is likely my next sports car. Nothing, absolutely NOTHING today comes close to delivering the performance and package combination. In person, the car has a menacing stance and is very aggressive.

[BroDoze]

Seems there's a lot of Nissan hate here. Down with Nissan - let 'em burn.

I disagree. I hope for the survival of any competition. Competition is a good thing.

[NYAWE60]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

Seems there's a lot of Nissan hate here. Down with Nissan - let 'em burn.

I disagree. I hope for the survival of any competition. Competition is a good thing.

As a 5 time Maxima, 2 time Z owner and growing up in a family full of Nissan enthusiasts, it hurts to see it. I have no idea how the brand made such a bad turn about 20 years ago. It’s hasn’t been able to fully recover since. It would be great to see a new GTR, but sadly I don’t think that will happen.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by NYAWE60

Nissan is toast, they just can't seem to deliver, the level of disconnect when it came to this current gen Z is indicative of a larger problem a the company. The folks in the seats making the executive decisions when it came to this product are seriously delusional. This is coming from a former 350Z, 370Z and R32 GTR owner.

And for what its worth, people are getting tired Porsche and their bullshit too. Purposely limiting production, increasing the base prices by no less than $15K and dealers charging insane markups on BASE CARS has seriously turned me off. The base 911 was supposed to be the people's sports car. Now it seems like the owners of base cars are elitist pricks that place themselves in the same category of the even more elitist prick GT3/GT3 RS owners.

I know I went off on a tangent here but as a 911 owner and fanatic, its been very upsetting. That said, the G87 in competition spec when it becomes available is likely my next sports car. Nothing, absolutely NOTHING today comes close to delivering the performance and package combination. In person, the car has a menacing stance and is very aggressive.

I hear you, I was a Z owner from 07 to like 2018. Hell, if you go to my350Z.com/Forum (on the mobile site at least), there's a picture of my car. Trust me, I was a Z fanatic as well. When the Z33 came out and especially the LCI (07 HR or I guess in some cases the 06 with the updates), the car was more than competitive, it was badass. The G35 was a legitimate 335i competitor. It was an exciting time to own one. Who knew that 20 years later, Nissan would still be using the same parts to build an updated car, double the price, and in the NISMO version, change it from manual only to automatic only. What a mess.

[NYAWE60]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

I hear you, I was a Z owner from 07 to like 2018. Hell, if you go to my350Z.com/Forum (on the mobile site at least), there's a picture of my car. Trust me, I was a Z fanatic as well. When the Z33 came out and especially the LCI (07 HR or I guess in some cases the 06 with the updates), the car was more than competitive, it was badass. The G35 was a legitimate 335i competitor. It was an exciting time to own one. Who knew that 20 years later, Nissan would still be using the same parts to build an updated car, double the price, and in the NISMO version, change it from manual only to automatic only. What a mess.

Like I said, there’s a total disconnect. It’s truly a sad thing when you consider there was a time when the S15 Spec R, Z33 and R34 lived side by side in the new lineup.

If you ask me, Toyota is the brand to keep an eye on. They have the money and it’s clear they aren’t afraid to use it to develop new (fun) products.

[BimmerFix]

I feel like American muscle has slowly been siphoning off Japanese sports car enthusiasts

Just based purely off observation , maybe I'm completely wrong on this
Toyota is definitley on the upswing .

But Mitsubishi , Nissan, Lexus/Honda I'm not so sure

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by baron95

But all the reviewers say the non NISMO handle like trash, and the performance numbers suck.

I don’t understand why Toyota and Nissan lost the ability to produce sports cars.

i dont think there is an auto ""journalist"" left in the game that i respect, so i'll leave the reviews to people who actually read them.

someone i trust with this stuff has driven one (i haven't yet, unfortunately, since they probably havent even made 2,000 at this point) and his opinion was that the car is wildly misunderstood right now. his take was that the handling is very old school with lots of roll and dive but in a manner that adds to the feedback and enhances the character of the car as a street tuned, every day comfy sporty coupe. transitions and bumps are well damped. to call it a sports car is probably a step too far by 2024 standards. it seems like a relic of times past, because it is- the manual transmission, enthusiast oriented sporty coupe that wants to be (and for many people can be) an only car.

i think if they flooded the market at the 42k and 52k price points these would find a lot of love and a lot of homes for people and serve as a decent platform for modification, but nissan would rather take the easy, captive sales and pad dealer margins.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

i dont think there is an auto ""journalist"" left in the game that i respect, so i'll leave the reviews to people who actually read them.

someone i trust with this stuff has driven one (i haven't yet, unfortunately, since they probably havent even made 2,000 at this point) and his opinion was that the car is wildly misunderstood right now. his take was that the handling is very old school with lots of roll and dive but in a manner that adds to the feedback and enhances the character of the car as a street tuned, every day comfy sporty coupe. transitions and bumps are well damped. to call it a sports car is probably a step too far by 2024 standards. it seems like a relic of times past, because it is- the manual transmission, enthusiast oriented sporty coupe that wants to be (and for many people can be) an only car.

i think if they flooded the market at the 42k and 52k price points these would find a lot of love and a lot of homes for people and serve as a decent platform for modification, but nissan would rather take the easy, captive sales and pad dealer margins.

Interesting perspective - kinda like a Miata that rolls more than a boat, but somehow it works.

I'm all for variety - not everything needs to be as buttoned down as a Cayman to be fun.

Thanks for posting this.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by baron95

Interesting perspective - kinda like a Miata that rolls more than a boat, but somehow it works.

I'm all for variety - not everything needs to be as buttoned down as a Cayman to be fun.

Thanks for posting this.

bingo. i don't think you, me, or most other M2 folks would be happy with it as a direct replacement, but theres definitely an audience for it.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

i dont think there is an auto ""journalist"" left in the game that i respect, so i'll leave the reviews to people who actually read them.

someone i trust with this stuff has driven one (i haven't yet, unfortunately, since they probably havent even made 2,000 at this point) and his opinion was that the car is wildly misunderstood right now. his take was that the handling is very old school with lots of roll and dive but in a manner that adds to the feedback and enhances the character of the car as a street tuned, every day comfy sporty coupe. transitions and bumps are well damped. to call it a sports car is probably a step too far by 2024 standards. it seems like a relic of times past, because it is- the manual transmission, enthusiast oriented sporty coupe that wants to be (and for many people can be) an only car.

i think if they flooded the market at the 42k and 52k price points these would find a lot of love and a lot of homes for people and serve as a decent platform for modification, but nissan would rather take the easy, captive sales and pad dealer margins.

Yeah, I just don’t agree. The Cayman is said to be a livable car - the older Zs we’re more rightly sprung (and I think had option packages for a sportier feel, including LSD, bigger wheels and bigger brakes.

The 300ZX competed with Corvettes, the 350z was considered a performance bargain against the E46 M3 and 996 Carrera. This new car is a warmed over 350Z with a big engine and soft sloppy suspension. Now, if you want a car that can perform as it should have initially, you have to pony up for the Nismo.

If you want something that practical l, buy a 4 seater (and Nissan missed the mark by not making this 2+2) there was no reason to make this car as sloppy as it was besides cost cutting and greed. Nissan of the 90s and early 2000s is dead, this new Nissan just build cheap overpriced crap.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Yeah, I just don’t agree. The Cayman is said to be a livable car - the older Zs we’re more rightly sprung (and I think had option packages for a sportier feel, including LSD, bigger wheels and bigger brakes.

The 300ZX competed with Corvettes, the 350z was considered a performance bargain against the E46 M3 and 996 Carrera. This new car is a warmed over 350Z with a big engine and soft sloppy suspension. Now, if you want a car that can perform as it should have initially, you have to pony up for the Nismo.

If you want something that practical l, buy a 4 seater (and Nissan missed the mark by not making this 2+2) there was no reason to make this car as sloppy as it was besides cost cutting and greed. Nissan of the 90s and early 2000s is dead, this new Nissan just build cheap overpriced crap.

yeah, dunno about this one chief. have you driven one or is this reading internet slop and regurgitating?

• the current Z has the exact packages you are describing. 42k gets you base with no LSD. 52k gets you "performance" with LSD and other goodies.
• i own a Z32 300ZX that you are quoting and have driven many contemporary sports cars. there is absolutely a balance in Z cars of this era that was absent in the American competition. I have as much brand new OEM suspension and close to OEM spec bushings as one can have some 30-odd years later, and theres plenty of roll squat and dive. the longer wheelbase of the 2+2 makes it an excellent cruiser. anyone claiming these cars came from the factory as flat cornering track monsters is ill-informed or misremembering. its a fantastic set up and very comfortable. mine is also on the more aggressive turbo wheels, so cross that one off the list.
• the 350z had its own line of criticism as being too fat and too soft. so not sure where that is coming from. i drove an 11k mile 350z last summer and ill confirm its harder than an N/A 300ZX but makes the M2 feel like a pile driver.

the new Z car seems to be in line with Z heritage going back to the Z32 300ZX. hell, the Z31 Z had a horrible reputation as a disco-era boulevard cruiser, even after the '88 turbo bumped HP up to a whopping 205.

its a cheap cost cutting exercise, but so was the 370z. at least they made the as many of those as they could sell- which is my main problem here. and in many ways, cost cutting exercises on the Z is now unfortunately part of the heritage too.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

yeah, dunno about this one chief. have you driven one or is this reading internet slop and regurgitating?

• the current Z has the exact packages you are describing. 42k gets you base with no LSD. 52k gets you "performance" with LSD and other goodies.
• i own a Z32 300ZX that you are quoting and have driven many contemporary sports cars. there is absolutely a balance in Z cars of this era that was absent in the American competition. I have as much brand new OEM suspension and close to OEM spec bushings as one can have some 30-odd years later, and theres plenty of roll squat and dive. the longer wheelbase of the 2+2 makes it an excellent cruiser. anyone claiming these cars came from the factory as flat cornering track monsters is ill-informed or misremembering. its a fantastic set up and very comfortable. mine is also on the more aggressive turbo wheels, so cross that one off the list.
• the 350z had its own line of criticism as being too fat and too soft. so not sure where that is coming from. i drove an 11k mile 350z last summer and ill confirm its harder than an N/A 300ZX but makes the M2 feel like a pile driver.

the new Z car seems to be in line with Z heritage going back to the Z32 300ZX. hell, the Z31 Z had a horrible reputation as a disco-era boulevard cruiser, even after the '88 turbo bumped HP up to a whopping 205.

its a cheap cost cutting exercise, but so was the 370z. at least they made the as many of those as they could sell- which is my main problem here. and in many ways, cost cutting exercises on the Z is now unfortunately part of the heritage too.

My guy, no 30 year old car is holding up with modern cars- the key here, and what I presented was the Z of that era was competitive with the best cars in that category. The 300zx was second to the MK4 Supra, and despite being slightly slower, better than the Corvettes of that era.

The 350z was a step down from that competition, but was a substantial value starting under $26000. This New Z is Keith cheap, nor competitive. The base version was beaten by the BRZ/FT86 despite having 160hp/200tq advantage, no back seat and a higher base price.


FYI, the 2+2 was a better car because of its longer wheel base and was the basis for the IMA Racecar.