[baron95]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

performance spec with an MT and LSD etc is 52k. that would be the one to in theory buy, the nismo is outrageously priced and they will make about 4 and a half of them.

But all the reviewers say the non NISMO handle like trash, and the performance numbers suck.

I don’t understand why Toyota and Nissan lost the ability to produce sports cars.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by augerpro

Nismo Z didn't need more horsepower to whup dat M2 azz on a track: https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ning-lap-2024/

Correct. All it took was for the 300lbs driver of the heaviest possible M2 spec to be able to do only a few rushed laps at the end of the day, where he was scared like a lost puppy of the M2 and drove her like trash.

That M2 lap is nowhere representative of a proper M2 lap. But yes, a win is a win, I guess.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

Just a wasted effort on Nissan's part. Could've been a beast...

This car (non Nismo) was getting walked in track tests by the 240hp BRZ. It's safe to say Nissan just threw in the towel. This car is hot garbage.

[NYAWE60]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Literally, Nissan is insane for charging what it does for these cars. And creating scarcity? Who do they think they are, Porsche?

Nissan is toast, they just can't seem to deliver, the level of disconnect when it came to this current gen Z is indicative of a larger problem a the company. The folks in the seats making the executive decisions when it came to this product are seriously delusional. This is coming from a former 350Z, 370Z and R32 GTR owner.

And for what its worth, people are getting tired Porsche and their bullshit too. Purposely limiting production, increasing the base prices by no less than $15K and dealers charging insane markups on BASE CARS has seriously turned me off. The base 911 was supposed to be the people's sports car. Now it seems like the owners of base cars are elitist pricks that place themselves in the same category of the even more elitist prick GT3/GT3 RS owners.

I know I went off on a tangent here but as a 911 owner and fanatic, its been very upsetting. That said, the G87 in competition spec when it becomes available is likely my next sports car. Nothing, absolutely NOTHING today comes close to delivering the performance and package combination. In person, the car has a menacing stance and is very aggressive.

[BroDoze]

Seems there's a lot of Nissan hate here. Down with Nissan - let 'em burn.

I disagree. I hope for the survival of any competition. Competition is a good thing.

[NYAWE60]

Originally Posted by BroDoze

Seems there's a lot of Nissan hate here. Down with Nissan - let 'em burn.

I disagree. I hope for the survival of any competition. Competition is a good thing.

As a 5 time Maxima, 2 time Z owner and growing up in a family full of Nissan enthusiasts, it hurts to see it. I have no idea how the brand made such a bad turn about 20 years ago. It’s hasn’t been able to fully recover since. It would be great to see a new GTR, but sadly I don’t think that will happen.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by NYAWE60

Nissan is toast, they just can't seem to deliver, the level of disconnect when it came to this current gen Z is indicative of a larger problem a the company. The folks in the seats making the executive decisions when it came to this product are seriously delusional. This is coming from a former 350Z, 370Z and R32 GTR owner.

And for what its worth, people are getting tired Porsche and their bullshit too. Purposely limiting production, increasing the base prices by no less than $15K and dealers charging insane markups on BASE CARS has seriously turned me off. The base 911 was supposed to be the people's sports car. Now it seems like the owners of base cars are elitist pricks that place themselves in the same category of the even more elitist prick GT3/GT3 RS owners.

I know I went off on a tangent here but as a 911 owner and fanatic, its been very upsetting. That said, the G87 in competition spec when it becomes available is likely my next sports car. Nothing, absolutely NOTHING today comes close to delivering the performance and package combination. In person, the car has a menacing stance and is very aggressive.

I hear you, I was a Z owner from 07 to like 2018. Hell, if you go to my350Z.com/Forum (on the mobile site at least), there's a picture of my car. Trust me, I was a Z fanatic as well. When the Z33 came out and especially the LCI (07 HR or I guess in some cases the 06 with the updates), the car was more than competitive, it was badass. The G35 was a legitimate 335i competitor. It was an exciting time to own one. Who knew that 20 years later, Nissan would still be using the same parts to build an updated car, double the price, and in the NISMO version, change it from manual only to automatic only. What a mess.

[NYAWE60]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

I hear you, I was a Z owner from 07 to like 2018. Hell, if you go to my350Z.com/Forum (on the mobile site at least), there's a picture of my car. Trust me, I was a Z fanatic as well. When the Z33 came out and especially the LCI (07 HR or I guess in some cases the 06 with the updates), the car was more than competitive, it was badass. The G35 was a legitimate 335i competitor. It was an exciting time to own one. Who knew that 20 years later, Nissan would still be using the same parts to build an updated car, double the price, and in the NISMO version, change it from manual only to automatic only. What a mess.

Like I said, there’s a total disconnect. It’s truly a sad thing when you consider there was a time when the S15 Spec R, Z33 and R34 lived side by side in the new lineup.

If you ask me, Toyota is the brand to keep an eye on. They have the money and it’s clear they aren’t afraid to use it to develop new (fun) products.

[BimmerFix]

I feel like American muscle has slowly been siphoning off Japanese sports car enthusiasts

Just based purely off observation , maybe I'm completely wrong on this
Toyota is definitley on the upswing .

But Mitsubishi , Nissan, Lexus/Honda I'm not so sure

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by baron95

But all the reviewers say the non NISMO handle like trash, and the performance numbers suck.

I don’t understand why Toyota and Nissan lost the ability to produce sports cars.

i dont think there is an auto ""journalist"" left in the game that i respect, so i'll leave the reviews to people who actually read them.

someone i trust with this stuff has driven one (i haven't yet, unfortunately, since they probably havent even made 2,000 at this point) and his opinion was that the car is wildly misunderstood right now. his take was that the handling is very old school with lots of roll and dive but in a manner that adds to the feedback and enhances the character of the car as a street tuned, every day comfy sporty coupe. transitions and bumps are well damped. to call it a sports car is probably a step too far by 2024 standards. it seems like a relic of times past, because it is- the manual transmission, enthusiast oriented sporty coupe that wants to be (and for many people can be) an only car.

i think if they flooded the market at the 42k and 52k price points these would find a lot of love and a lot of homes for people and serve as a decent platform for modification, but nissan would rather take the easy, captive sales and pad dealer margins.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

i dont think there is an auto ""journalist"" left in the game that i respect, so i'll leave the reviews to people who actually read them.

someone i trust with this stuff has driven one (i haven't yet, unfortunately, since they probably havent even made 2,000 at this point) and his opinion was that the car is wildly misunderstood right now. his take was that the handling is very old school with lots of roll and dive but in a manner that adds to the feedback and enhances the character of the car as a street tuned, every day comfy sporty coupe. transitions and bumps are well damped. to call it a sports car is probably a step too far by 2024 standards. it seems like a relic of times past, because it is- the manual transmission, enthusiast oriented sporty coupe that wants to be (and for many people can be) an only car.

i think if they flooded the market at the 42k and 52k price points these would find a lot of love and a lot of homes for people and serve as a decent platform for modification, but nissan would rather take the easy, captive sales and pad dealer margins.

Interesting perspective - kinda like a Miata that rolls more than a boat, but somehow it works.

I'm all for variety - not everything needs to be as buttoned down as a Cayman to be fun.

Thanks for posting this.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by baron95

Interesting perspective - kinda like a Miata that rolls more than a boat, but somehow it works.

I'm all for variety - not everything needs to be as buttoned down as a Cayman to be fun.

Thanks for posting this.

bingo. i don't think you, me, or most other M2 folks would be happy with it as a direct replacement, but theres definitely an audience for it.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

i dont think there is an auto ""journalist"" left in the game that i respect, so i'll leave the reviews to people who actually read them.

someone i trust with this stuff has driven one (i haven't yet, unfortunately, since they probably havent even made 2,000 at this point) and his opinion was that the car is wildly misunderstood right now. his take was that the handling is very old school with lots of roll and dive but in a manner that adds to the feedback and enhances the character of the car as a street tuned, every day comfy sporty coupe. transitions and bumps are well damped. to call it a sports car is probably a step too far by 2024 standards. it seems like a relic of times past, because it is- the manual transmission, enthusiast oriented sporty coupe that wants to be (and for many people can be) an only car.

i think if they flooded the market at the 42k and 52k price points these would find a lot of love and a lot of homes for people and serve as a decent platform for modification, but nissan would rather take the easy, captive sales and pad dealer margins.

Yeah, I just don’t agree. The Cayman is said to be a livable car - the older Zs we’re more rightly sprung (and I think had option packages for a sportier feel, including LSD, bigger wheels and bigger brakes.

The 300ZX competed with Corvettes, the 350z was considered a performance bargain against the E46 M3 and 996 Carrera. This new car is a warmed over 350Z with a big engine and soft sloppy suspension. Now, if you want a car that can perform as it should have initially, you have to pony up for the Nismo.

If you want something that practical l, buy a 4 seater (and Nissan missed the mark by not making this 2+2) there was no reason to make this car as sloppy as it was besides cost cutting and greed. Nissan of the 90s and early 2000s is dead, this new Nissan just build cheap overpriced crap.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Yeah, I just don’t agree. The Cayman is said to be a livable car - the older Zs we’re more rightly sprung (and I think had option packages for a sportier feel, including LSD, bigger wheels and bigger brakes.

The 300ZX competed with Corvettes, the 350z was considered a performance bargain against the E46 M3 and 996 Carrera. This new car is a warmed over 350Z with a big engine and soft sloppy suspension. Now, if you want a car that can perform as it should have initially, you have to pony up for the Nismo.

If you want something that practical l, buy a 4 seater (and Nissan missed the mark by not making this 2+2) there was no reason to make this car as sloppy as it was besides cost cutting and greed. Nissan of the 90s and early 2000s is dead, this new Nissan just build cheap overpriced crap.

yeah, dunno about this one chief. have you driven one or is this reading internet slop and regurgitating?

• the current Z has the exact packages you are describing. 42k gets you base with no LSD. 52k gets you "performance" with LSD and other goodies.
• i own a Z32 300ZX that you are quoting and have driven many contemporary sports cars. there is absolutely a balance in Z cars of this era that was absent in the American competition. I have as much brand new OEM suspension and close to OEM spec bushings as one can have some 30-odd years later, and theres plenty of roll squat and dive. the longer wheelbase of the 2+2 makes it an excellent cruiser. anyone claiming these cars came from the factory as flat cornering track monsters is ill-informed or misremembering. its a fantastic set up and very comfortable. mine is also on the more aggressive turbo wheels, so cross that one off the list.
• the 350z had its own line of criticism as being too fat and too soft. so not sure where that is coming from. i drove an 11k mile 350z last summer and ill confirm its harder than an N/A 300ZX but makes the M2 feel like a pile driver.

the new Z car seems to be in line with Z heritage going back to the Z32 300ZX. hell, the Z31 Z had a horrible reputation as a disco-era boulevard cruiser, even after the '88 turbo bumped HP up to a whopping 205.

its a cheap cost cutting exercise, but so was the 370z. at least they made the as many of those as they could sell- which is my main problem here. and in many ways, cost cutting exercises on the Z is now unfortunately part of the heritage too.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

yeah, dunno about this one chief. have you driven one or is this reading internet slop and regurgitating?

• the current Z has the exact packages you are describing. 42k gets you base with no LSD. 52k gets you "performance" with LSD and other goodies.
• i own a Z32 300ZX that you are quoting and have driven many contemporary sports cars. there is absolutely a balance in Z cars of this era that was absent in the American competition. I have as much brand new OEM suspension and close to OEM spec bushings as one can have some 30-odd years later, and theres plenty of roll squat and dive. the longer wheelbase of the 2+2 makes it an excellent cruiser. anyone claiming these cars came from the factory as flat cornering track monsters is ill-informed or misremembering. its a fantastic set up and very comfortable. mine is also on the more aggressive turbo wheels, so cross that one off the list.
• the 350z had its own line of criticism as being too fat and too soft. so not sure where that is coming from. i drove an 11k mile 350z last summer and ill confirm its harder than an N/A 300ZX but makes the M2 feel like a pile driver.

the new Z car seems to be in line with Z heritage going back to the Z32 300ZX. hell, the Z31 Z had a horrible reputation as a disco-era boulevard cruiser, even after the '88 turbo bumped HP up to a whopping 205.

its a cheap cost cutting exercise, but so was the 370z. at least they made the as many of those as they could sell- which is my main problem here. and in many ways, cost cutting exercises on the Z is now unfortunately part of the heritage too.

My guy, no 30 year old car is holding up with modern cars- the key here, and what I presented was the Z of that era was competitive with the best cars in that category. The 300zx was second to the MK4 Supra, and despite being slightly slower, better than the Corvettes of that era.

The 350z was a step down from that competition, but was a substantial value starting under $26000. This New Z is Keith cheap, nor competitive. The base version was beaten by the BRZ/FT86 despite having 160hp/200tq advantage, no back seat and a higher base price.


FYI, the 2+2 was a better car because of its longer wheel base and was the basis for the IMA Racecar.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

My guy, no 30 year old car is holding up with modern cars- the key here, and what I presented was the Z of that era was competitive with the best cars in that category. The 300zx was second to the MK4 Supra, and despite being slightly slower, better than the Corvettes of that era.

The 350z was a step down from that competition, but was a substantial value starting under $26000. This New Z is Keith cheap, nor competitive. The base version was beaten by the BRZ/FT86 despite having 160hp/200tq advantage, no back seat and a higher base price.


FYI, the 2+2 was a better car because of its longer wheel base and was the basis for the IMA Racecar.

regurgitating internet slop it is. got it.

i kindly invite you to use your internet powers to navigate over to an inflation calculator, where you will see that infact, even by the govt's very questionable calculations, $26k in 2003 is equal to... $44k in today dollars. which means that, yes indeed, a base Z is (i'll do the math for you) CHEAPER than a base 350z was at the time.

first paragraph missed the mark so badly that it is hardly worth addressing, but ill give it a go: no one is saying that a 30 year old car is a direct comparison to a modern car. the point was that the current Z, what with the softer suspension and more comfort oriented packaging in general, is a true successor to (most) of the Z car lineage. Z cars were, in most stages of life, tuned to be more on the liveable side of the spectrum. this one is no different. internet warriors are very keen to put this car in a box it does not belong in.

the one thing you got right: the 2+2 is better.

[Up4speed]

This thread is very entertaining for me. I love how everyone is jumping in with opinions based on what they "think" or have read, but don't have personal experience with the cars they are mentioning or bashing.
I have been a car nut my whole life and have sampled many cars and have tracked many cars. I was also an instructor, so I'm not a stranger to pushing cars on the track.
I now own a 2024 Z Nismo that I purchased solely for running around town, and for the track. So to answer the question that many have asked "what idiot would buy a Z when they can have an M2?" well the answer is ME!
Why? because I already have a M2 and didn't want a second one.
Just for a background of my experience, just in the recent years, I have owned and enjoyed a handful of fun cars, including a GTI, BRZ, M2C, 360, 458, 488, 911Turbo, Boxster S, Cayman S, Z Nismo and probably one or two cool cars that I forgot about. So sticking to the M2 vs Z Nismo comparison. I now have both the M2C and the Z Nismo (and my brother has the new M2, so I'm familiar with that too) so I feel like I have the authority to speak from experience and logic, instead of feelings.

I want to start by admitting that if I was only allowed one car, either M2 or Z Nismo, the M2 wins that battle hands down. So no need to beat me up....BUT, I wanted to say a few things about the Z that people don't realize. I also wanted to say that the regular Z is definitely a failure on Nissans part (loses it's composure when driven over 7 or 8/10), but it does look cool, so if that's what someone wants, then it's fine. However, we are talking about performance and feel here.

The reason I decided on the Z Nismo, is because I was looking for a track car right out of the box. I wanted to track it while keeping it stock and retain a warranty. The car has a lot of track focused parts. It has Recaro seats, a Sport plus mode with heavier duty transmission clutches (transmission is a Mercedes unit) way faster up and down shifts (I think about 40% if I remember correctly), 20 more HP & 34 ft/lbs of torque than standard Z, Stiffer suspension, stiffer antiroll bars, 15" Akebono brakes with track/street pads and track fluid, 200 wear tires, Rays light weight wheels, extra cooling for transmission, engine and rear end, Better aerodynamics for less lift at speeds, chassis stiffeners, and probably a few other things that I also forgot. These changes completely transform the Z, into an extremely balanced and composed track weapon!

The three cars I have now are the 488, the M2, and the Z Nismo.
The 488 is a complete animal, speed wise, and exotic so not really comparable to the others, but I mentioned it for a reason.
The M2 compared to Z is a better daily driver, way more convenient, better build quality, better sound system and very similar in speed (it's the M2C, the new M2 is faster).
The Nismo on the other hand completely blew me away when I drove it. It feels very special. Way better than I ever expected it to feel, and I said to my passenger on the test drive, that I thought that the car was the best kept secret!
The seating position in those recaro seats make it feel very (track) focused before you even start moving. The steering feel is nicely weighted (not artificially heavy like BMW) with way better feel/feedback than the BMW. When on the track, I feel very connected to the car, and it's very easy to push hard comfortably because it's balance so well and the brakes are so linear and strong, and zero fade. It doesn't have understeer, it stays flat, and very easy to hit the apex without having to adjust the steering midway. I honestly feel that car is worth every penny (I also feel that about my other cars though, lol). I can't say enough good things about it. Is it perfect? of course not, there is no such thing. However, I just felt that the poor car was getting the beat end of the stick on this forum, and I honestly don't think it deserves that much hate. I totally understand if it's not your thing, but it is truly a fantastic car. I know this is going to sound crazy, but it even feels more "special and focused" than the Ferrari! But, maybe that's because the Ferrari is just too good at being the epitome of the perfect sports car. The Z feels so alive and ready to rip (even though it's only a little more than 1/2 the HP and much more weight than the 488). It chirps the first 3 gears when accelerating hard, and that's with super sticky tires that it comes with.
I can also add that I really love the looks but that's subjective, and I really love that it is so rare (I haven't seen any around even after a year) I think that they only made 1,613 of them. As of now, I literally only have one thing that I can say I really don't like about the Z. I feel like it's too heavy. I wish it was as light as my BRZ, that car was so much fun because it was very light weight. However, Nissan did a wonderful job at hiding it's weight.

For those that are speed freaks (those focusing on speed instead of driving experience), the M2C is about the same speed, but the new M2 is definitely faster. Especially in a straight line.
I don't personally have direct comparisons of the Z Nismo and new M2 on the track (yet), but some comparisons I have seen with reviewers have better lap times with the Z, others with the M2. I think the Z is better in the turns, so I have to guess that it depends on the track. If there are longer straight aways, the M2 will definitely win. I think that they are close enough on lap times, that there's no need to split hairs unless you are doing racing.

So there is the first unpopular opinion on here, lol. Go ahead and blast me if you guys feel the need to, I won't be offended. My M2C is up there with some of my favorite cars that I've ever owned! And so is the Z.

If anyone is local to me (Long Island) or at the track on a day that I'm there (I go to Limerock, NYST, Palmer, Thompson mostly), I would be more than happy to give you a ride. I think that you would have a totally different opinion of the Nismo if you rode in it.

I attached a picture of the beast...

Happy motoring. Enjoy your cars in good health!

[Good 4 2 reasons]

The Nissan FM architecture debuted with a 2001 model year Infiniti G series car. Today's Nissan Z Nismo is built on the same platform.

Nissan invested little in any notable innovation since the early 2000s. It's not surprising they have so many shortcomings compared to other manufacturer's enthusiast models. Add to that dealership greed adding markups to low production sport models that should not be marked up in any situation, and it kills any sales momentum for Nissan to further develop their higher performance models.

[Up4speed]

Originally Posted by Good 4 2 reasons

The Nissan FM architecture debuted with a 2001 model year Infiniti G series car. Today's Nissan Z Nismo is built on the same platform.

Nissan invested little in any notable innovation since the early 2000s. It's not surprising they have so many shortcomings compared to other manufacturer's enthusiast models. Add to that dealership greed adding markups to low production sport models that should not be marked up in any situation, and it kills any sales momentum for Nissan to further develop their higher performance models.

Yes, all true stuff. Nissan is definitely messing up as a whole, and it's obvious by their reduction in sales. They used to have a lot of nice cars, now they are down to 2 cars that are nice. The Z and the GTR. And they are both very expensive for a Nissan, and not big money makers, so no wonder they are failing.

As far as the chassis being used, yes, it is based off of the old chassis that has been improved over the years. However, I'm a chassis snob. I need a very stiff chassis in my cars, and I can tell you that it is ridiculously stiff. The car feels like it is carved out of a solid block of steel and just as stiff as much more expensive cars that I've owned in the past. It truly shocked me because I didn't think Nissan can do that!
I guess that explains why the car weighs too much though. I know they added stiffeners to the Nismo (only big negative with the car in my opinion, and it weighs about 100 more pounds than the standard Z). It's not a terrible thing to use older designs as long as they still function as required, it's proven. But of course, newer more exotic materials can achieve the goal with lighter weight. But that also means that my wallet will be lighter, lol. I can tell you that NOTHING feels old in this car during the driving experience. Only the looks in the interior make it obvious that there are carry over parts (door handles, climate controls, vents), which I don't mind because it has a nice clean look and very function and drivers oriented. When it's in Sport+ mode, the display is very focused. I have all my gauges for the track. Tach is front center, shift lights right above that, tire pressures, engine water temps, engine oil temps, transmission oil temps, and rear end temps. I see all that info at a quick glance. No clutter, no confusion, just very easy to read gauges.
I honestly don't like the new M2's cluster/big screen because of the clutter and difficulty to navigate it. But to be fair, maybe I need more time to play around with it and configure it to be track ready. And I'm disappointed in my M2C because it doesn't even have necessary gauges. At best, I can show a tiny oil temperature gauge that would be tough to see on the track.
I know that the Z Nismo, on paper, doesn't look/sound appealing and seems over priced, and I understand that, but if I bought a lesser car and put all the performance parts on to get it track ready, it would cost more. That's why I felt the need to write in here to stick up for it. I think that car is a freak of nature. It totally blew away my expectations, because all the old Z's (and the non Nismo's) are so so cars at best. They are great at nothing, but cool cars in general, and don't dare push them past 8/10ths or it will get silly and uncomfortable and unpredictable. They are definitely not track rats (unless modified heavily). In my opinion, the New Z Nismo changed all of that, and is a very respectable car. Maybe not the best, but it's really cool looking and unique.
A Supra is probably a better "value", and I looked into them. The performance is definitely there. However, I think that the car looks goofy and over done (subjective), but even worse is that I'm tall, and when I sit in the car, the sight lines are really bad because of the way the roof curves down in the front and sides, blocking my view. So that alone was a necessary deal killer for me. And to take it to the track, I would also have to replace the tires, brakes, and brake fluid from day one.

Oh, one more thing. it was mentioned about mark ups on the Z. I would never pay even a penny of mark up on a car (it's a matter of point). I got over $2,500 off of MSRP and zero other charges other than tax/title, etc. on my Z and they are going for even less now because Nissan is a mess. It's more than I would normally pay, but was ok with it because it's a special, lower production car.
My only apprehension recommending the car would be because of Nissans situation. However, I personally don't have regrets. I like having a unique car. It's the only car that I've ever owned where I went a full year without seeing another one.

[Bumpinjeep]

Up4speed Good to have someone with ownership experience chime in. Always nice to see another perspective. Though I still couldn't do it. It's just too similar to my Z33. I sat inside one and thought that I was in a time capsule back to me in my 20s, throwing CE28N Time Attacks on my Z, slamming it on coilovers and putting enough carbon fiber on it to burn a hole in the O Zone.

If anyone is on the fence about the Z, they are going for super cheap at the moment, you can snag a brand new Nismo Z for $52K. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/7...-56352d9f765f/
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/0...-60f2c5c2ed63/

[BroDoze]

I cannot stand the way the Z looks, or else I’d probably be driving one. I like Turbo Nissans. I have a Nissan in my garage.

[Up4speed]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Up4speed Good to have someone with ownership experience chime in. Always nice to see another perspective. Though I still couldn't do it. It's just too similar to my Z33. I sat inside one and thought that I was in a time capsule back to me in my 20s, throwing CE28N Time Attacks on my Z, slamming it on coilovers and putting enough carbon fiber on it to burn a hole in the O Zone.

If anyone is on the fence about the Z, they are going for super cheap at the moment, you can snag a brand new Nismo Z for $52K. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/7...-56352d9f765f/
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/0...-60f2c5c2ed63/

Haha it's funny you say that. I felt the same way, but that's what I liked about the car! I actually told my wife that I liked the car because it made me feel like a kid again! I'm 56 now, and I feel like the last 35 years flew by in a blink of an eye...very stressful. That's why I'll take the Z for a spin and throw on some 80's-90's Freestyle music and all is well with the world, lol.

Another sidenote regarding Nissan just improving on old designs, don't forget, Porsche is very successful at doing that! And for those that remember, Porsche had one foot in the grave more than once.