[Squidget]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

“Medium” mods also applies to the M2.

Would camber plates and a rear seat delete be considered "medium?"

Because that's the most drastic things that PhD has done to that M2 AFAIK. I'd consider that pretty light mods, myself. They haven't even done a stage 1 tune. Hell, in some of the races they were still running the PS4S, no cup 2s or anything. I'm not sure what tires they ran at Barber.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Would camber plates and a rear seat delete be considered "medium?"

Because that's the most drastic things that PhD has done to that M2. I'd consider that pretty light mods, myself. They haven't even done a stage 1 tune AFAIK.

Yeah looks like it would. I watched the camaro video on youtube and his mods were slicks and brake pads. Hard to consider those even mods lol

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by fcman

Yeah looks like it would. I watched the camaro video on youtube and his mods were slicks and brake pads. Hard to consider those even mods lol

The 1LE is a track beast, always has been. If the M2 is even in the same neighborhood, I'd call that a win.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by Squidget

The 1LE is a track beast, always has been. If the M2 is even in the same neighborhood, I'd call that a win.

Agreed, I am going into the M2 expecting some performance compromises, it being more of a heavy entry-level luxury car/sports coupe compared to my C7. If it can even come close in performance I am going to be extremely happy.

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Would camber plates and a rear seat delete be considered "medium?"

I wondered the same, but then I don’t know where the line is drawn when going from 100% stock to medium mods?

Is there a light mod category? I don’t know.

What I’m curious about is comparatively modded M2 vs SS 1LE in 3 or 4 20-minute track session throughout a day, especially in summer? How will heat soak effect times lap after lap when going against a naturally aspirated engine with close factory power.

I also think Chevy is a little more accurate with their power figures, whereas BMW tends to underrate.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

What I’m curious about is comparatively modded M2 vs SS 1LE in 3 or 4 20-minute track session throughout a day, especially in summer? How will heat soak effect times lap after lap when going against a naturally aspirated engine with close factory power.

While I don't think we have a lot of specific evidence for the G87 yet, it has the the same coolers (brakes, diff, oil, etc.) as the G8x. And is running a couple less PSI boost. Since the G8x was decent at handling heat I'm optimistic that the G87 won't show any fatal flaws.

Likewise the G8x track record implies, but does not guarantee, that the G87 won't have problems like oil starvation, gas tank slap, etc.

I expect it to chew through tires at a prodigious rate, though.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

I wondered the same, but then I don’t know where the line is drawn when going from 100% stock to medium mods?

Is there a light mod category? I don’t know.

What I’m curious about is comparatively modded M2 vs SS 1LE in 3 or 4 20-minute track session throughout a day, especially in summer? How will heat soak effect times lap after lap when going against a naturally aspirated engine with close factory power.

I also think Chevy is a little more accurate with their power figures, whereas BMW tends to underrate.

LT1s tend to dyno very low 400s, like 395-410ish. But yeah they can run on track all day. I don't know about heatsoak on the S58, the G80/82 have been out for a while and I haven't heard much. BMW also seems to focus pretty heavily on cooling with the S motors.

American cars hold their own incredibly well on track considering WHP numbers. If anything I would say American cars corner better and make better overall track cars than their European counterparts for the money (or even nearly double the money) until you start getting into Porsche GT territory.

I know Nurburgring times have a lot of variables but Chevy puts on an absolutely masterclass there when you consider the prices of their cars, at least here in the US.

[XC3LLR8]

No doubt BMW has nailed heat management in terms of engine oil and water cooling. But forced induction cars suffer from heat soak in managing the air temperature the turbo is sending its way. This can cause some inconsistency when doing more than a hot lap and you’re out on a simmering track for much of the day. A naturally aspirated car doesn’t suffer in this regard. To what degree a modern BMW manages this with OEM intercoolers, I do not know.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

To what degree a modern BMW manages this with OEM intercoolers, I do not know.

They throw a lot at it, basically. One of the reasons for these massive open-face designs and grills everyone hates on the M cars. BMW has been running FI in M cars for a few years now, and I haven't noticed a huge clamoring for CAIs and extra intercoolers. So I think it's OK, but I'm not a racing mechanic of course.

[DO444]

… deleting this post because I got caught again talking P cars on the BMW forum.

My apologies.

I’m tired as hell of it as you all are lol.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

No doubt BMW has nailed heat management in terms of engine oil and water cooling. But forced induction cars suffer from heat soak in managing the air temperature the turbo is sending its way. This can cause some inconsistency when doing more than a hot lap and you’re out on a simmering track for much of the day. A naturally aspirated car doesn’t suffer in this regard. To what degree a modern BMW manages this with OEM intercoolers, I do not know.

Heat soak any heat build up from sitting after a track session -- which will occur even if there is a cool down lap -- will be gone pretty darn quick once the engine has been running a while.

And this heat soak occurs even with NA engines. After driving 6+ miles to the bookstore in my 2020 Scat Pack and parking it a few minutes the engine coolant and oil had heat soaked some. BTW, this heat soak has some benefit. It heats up the intake air and thus this results in better fuel atomization from a start and when driving on surface streets. But off the surface streets and on the freeway in a mile or so the heat soak was gone.

Had my M2 out in high ambient temperature conditions a week or so ago. Ambient temperature was 100F+. Surprisingly (or maybe not...) the coolant temperature rather than being at its usual "210F" point on the temperature graphic was at a much lower temperature. 40F or more degrees less.

I had seen this behavior before when hard accelerating but once I resumed normal driving the coolant temperature "recovered".

But in hotter weather as I drove and just driving too nothing spirited the coolant temperature stayed down.

The BMW engine is not going to suffer any thermal run away condition. The cooling system is well designed to deal with any heat load the engine can generate.

Added: Oh, as for the intercooler/intercoolers they'll shed any heat soak in no time. Heck my 2003 Porsche 996 Turbo air to air intercoolers would get the intake air temperature down to just 10F over ambient in no time. I've never bothered to check the intake air temperature of my M2 as I drive. No rain in the forecast today. Will do this today.

[mrdudley]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

Modern automotive “journalists” are natural instigators. They know these arbitrary comparisons get clicks and rile people up in the comments. It’s always best to ignore them.

I wouldn’t say this comparison is arbitrary. I cross-shopped these cars, as I’m sure many people have. As people have noted, the prices are not too dissimilar, and not sure about what others experienced, but all the Toyota dealers nearby me hd markup where I could get an M2 at MSRP.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by Squidget

The 1LE is a track beast, always has been. If the M2 is even in the same neighborhood, I'd call that a win.

I hope it is, as I'm trading my SS 1LE M6 for the G87 M2, and will track often. I have zero mods on the Camaro other than alignment and brake pads (use high durability ones, not the fastest).

It will be a bummer if the M2 is way off. Prior to that I had a C7-Z51 and the 1LE managed similar lap times - not the fastest lap, but it would do better at the end of a session, as no factory car can handle track heat like the 1LE.

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by baron95

I hope it is, as I'm trading my SS 1LE M6 for the G87 M2, and will track often. I have zero mods on the Camaro other than alignment and brake pads (use high durability ones, not the fastest).

It will be a bummer if the M2 is way off. Prior to that I had a C7-Z51 and the 1LE managed similar lap times - not the fastest lap, but it would do better at the end of a session, as no factory car can handle track heat like the 1LE.

I'm sure you'll be very happy with the M2's performance in relation to your SS 1LE, plus have a much nicer car to drive home in. Unfortunately, you're just paying more to do it.

My son set a couple different track records in the SS 1LE, and while it was starting to show some abuse before he got rid of it for a '23 Supra, managing heat was never even a thought.

This .gif I created from pictures I took of him at Inde Motorsports Ranch in AZ never gets old!

[baron95]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

I'm sure you'll be very happy with the M2's performance in relation to your SS 1LE, plus have a much nicer car to drive home in.

Yes, the 1LE is brutal in practicality - not even a place to keep your phone, can't see s$@# in a parking lot. But yes, I have done probably 30+ track days on it in instructor run groups - never missed a beat.

Other cars (including my C7-Z51) melted parts - literally

I'm certain, I'll be happy with the M2 - just hope it does not fall flat on track.