[ASAP]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

I definitely remember them having a hard time moving F8x CS leases at $700/mo, it was actually the only time I had considered one. Probably not the golden age (4 years ago lol) you think it was

agreed i recall those times... that car had a backend bmw credit of like 15k from what i was told... i made a major mistake buying my m2c instead of the f8x cs

recall... this was prior to the massive liquidity stimulus we had during covid and back then these were only rwd cars that werent all over instagram... things have changed drastically since namely due to wildly different marketing and trends

[JK479]

Originally Posted by Chihuahua

Marianas trench and a barge.

Ironic too Tesla is keeping an eye on all those who bail and will not sell them anything in the future.

Sign me up for a
Model 3 performance

[cfm56d7b]

X5 is still the best selling model despite slightly smaller YTD numbers.

Unspoken message to BMW: no need to mess with success.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by blue_seather

Could someone make sense of this for me?

On the first chart, it says 4 series Q2 2024 - 3890 and iX Q2 2024 - 1122.

On the second one (for the EVs), i4 for Q2 2024 is 7066 and iX for Q2 2024 - 3545.

How have BMW sold more electric 4 series cars than all the 4 series cars combined (which should include the electric one). And how has BMW sold both 1122 and 3545 iX cars at the same time?

Also, under the first chart it states the following:



... which clearly does not correspond to the chart above it... at all...

Am I dumb or missing something here?

This is a repetitive post. We already clarified. Here’s the corrected chart.

[m3cole]

Originally Posted by Kennethjk

That means enticing people to buy a car, not forcing them and yes incentives makes things a bit more affordable but that happens in many cars from all dealers and manufacturers when they need to unload cars, ICE and EVs. Right now it’s EVS. I guess you figure a sales person you can talk anyone into anything even if they don’t want or need it. People can spin things a million ways as you say.

I have gotten great deals on ICE BMWs over the 42 years I have owned them. They didn’t force me to buy them, I just thought it was a good deal and the dealer and BMW wanted to unload them.

All people need to do is some homework and they can figure out if something is good for them (of course some people don’t). But I have seen people buy specific ICE cars and regret them also.

As I said, EVs aren’t for everyone and yes some make a mistake by buying them but I believe the vast majority like them.

Personally I don’t buy a car because of a free gas card. I buy based of what I want and if there are added benefits great. I may be unusual as I also don’t buy a specific model based on price. I determine what car I like and then find a good price. I know people who shop cars strictly on price and the manufacture doesn’t matter, didn’t stroke for different folks.

BTW I don’t think a new EV owner should get be free electrons. Just takes up charger slots from people who really need it and have no other choice.

All my .02

I agree, you are same as me, when I buy a car I know exactly what I want and that’s bmwhay I buy, I don’t go on other people recommendations or whatever. I ordered a 25 m2 and every sales person says u don’t actually need it and just get an m240 it’s almost as good and will be here faster. That’s not what I wanted so I stuck to my guns and ordered the m2. The perogotive for the manufacturers is EV sales and to be “green”. From the corporate training they are transparent about that as well. But I agree with you! I think people should buy what they want same as you and I.

[m3cole]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

Gas cars have been heavily discounted too, and I’m ok with both

Looks like the 3er is in trouble

Yea they are discounted but not as steeply, 15-17k vs 3-4k discounts! Hurts tho the 3er is best car.

[Kennethjk]

Originally Posted by m3cole

Yea they are discounted but not as steeply, 15-17k vs 3-4k discounts! Hurts tho the 3er is best car.

I have heard of max 11% discounts on an IX, not the 15-17k, (if so I wish I had gotten that, LOL)you mention, passing thru the EV credit isn’t a real discount on a lease but yes they are discounted more than ICE generally.
On the other hand I have seen ICE cars with 5k off at the end of a model year on cars much less expensive.

Things will shake out eventually and over time manufacturers will be more efficient and prices will come down. Still early in the game and sometimes you have to lose money to make it long term.

[m3cole]

Originally Posted by Kennethjk

I have heard of max 11% discounts on an IX, not the 15-17k, (if so I wish I had gotten that, LOL)you mention, passing thru the EV credit isn’t a real discount on a lease but yes they are discounted more than ICE generally.
On the other hand I have seen ICE cars with 5k off at the end of a model year on cars much less expensive.

Things will shake out eventually and over time manufacturers will be more efficient and prices will come down. Still early in the game and sometime you have to lose money to make it long term.

Yes I agree with losing money up front and look long term big picture. But the 15-17k discount were aggregated totals including incentives and the “optional dealer help” or whatever it said online, so total money off ended up being huge! It was less for the i4 of course bc it’s a cheaper vehicle all together. But for a while massive massive money was coming off those cars to get them off the lots. I remember about a year ago in a sales meeting we had 50+ incoming iX’s that were slotted to come in a 4 week period. That forced dealer to lose money on a lot of them. It’s hard to sell a car at a profit when u have 20 sitting in the front lot. Gives a lot of pull to the customer and makes dealer motivated to close deals to meet BMW monthly goals as well.

[AndreiPopescu]

[QUOTE=Tenac;31281323]A quick google search show's your numbers are way off. Lets pick on 2023 since that is the only full year of XM sales we have.

2023 World wide sales XM 4,450

2023 World Wide Urus 6,087 and has been climbing since launch.

It will be interesting to see the 2024 XM sales WW but at the rate this report is showing it will be around 11% less than last year, though with the extra quarter 2024 will have my bet is it will be on par.

Also your comment that XM out sells all combined sales WW of the Urus is way off, Urus since launch is about 22k in world wide sales. XM is at 4450. Let's face it BMW is offering major discounts on the XM for a reason, I have never seen another M series vehicle get over 15k discount on the MSRP before.

Source: https://www.bmwblog.com/2023/11/03/bmw-xm-global-sales-4450-units-first-nine-months-2023/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1453176/lamborghini-deliveries-by-model/#:~:text=In%202019%2C%20the%20Urus%20model,6%2C100 %20Urus%20and%204%2C000%20Hurac%C3%A1ns.

You read the article wrong, they sold 6100 units in 2021 2022 and 2023 combined

[IcEWoLF]

X3 and X5 carrying hard. X3 numbers up from last year.

[CatchF22DirtyF30]

Wow, these 4 series taking over the 3 is probably because the 4 GC is a better looking car and deal over the 3 series counterparts. Although that is subjective, the numbers here speak on it.

[tsbrown]

[QUOTE=AndreiPopescu;31282212]

Originally Posted by Tenac

A quick google search show's your numbers are way off. Lets pick on 2023 since that is the only full year of XM sales we have.

2023 World wide sales XM 4,450

2023 World Wide Urus 6,087 and has been climbing since launch.

It will be interesting to see the 2024 XM sales WW but at the rate this report is showing it will be around 11% less than last year, though with the extra quarter 2024 will have my bet is it will be on par.

Also your comment that XM out sells all combined sales WW of the Urus is way off, Urus since launch is about 22k in world wide sales. XM is at 4450. Let's face it BMW is offering major discounts on the XM for a reason, I have never seen another M series vehicle get over 15k discount on the MSRP before.

Source: https://www.bmwblog.com/2023/11/03/bmw-xm-global-sales-4450-units-first-nine-months-2023/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...Hurac%C3%A1ns.

You read the article wrong, they sold 6100 units in 2021 2022 and 2023 combined

Actually you’re still misreading this. Try this Car and Driver story that says they sold over 10,000 units globally for the first time ever in 2023 with over 6000 Urus. The same numbers were reported in Barrons and other reliable sources.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...s-record-2023/

[RigaTony1982]

Originally Posted by CatchF22DirtyF30

Wow, these 4 series taking over the 3 is probably because the 4 GC is a better looking car and deal over the 3 series counterparts. Although that is subjective, the numbers here speak on it.

Or the electric 4 series is lumped in with that total.

[668 F10]

I wonder what kind of incentive someone got to buy a 3 year old i3 that miraculously was still on the lot

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by IcEWoLF

X3 and X5 carrying hard. X3 numbers up from last year.

X3 is less expensive than X5. Both vehicles capture the target consumer group extremely well. But X3 is still less expensive. So it was redesigned first to maintain sales momentum, especially because of the need to recapture those who lease every 3 years.

At launch, XM was already facing an uphill battle because of pricing and discontinuous departure from BMW design language. The sales reflect reality. i am sure XM owners enjoy their vehicles. More power to them as everyone’s choice is a personal one.

[Mr. Jonathan]

Originally Posted by M2PDX

I've driven the all electric BMWs (including the i4 and i5) the Hybrid XM, and the Model Y and recently updated Tesla 3. As an 11 time BMW owner, I've got to say, the Teslas handle better and are faster.

I still don't want to own an electric, but if I had to, I wouldn't pick the BMW.

I don’t understand the obsession with how fast one SUV or sedan EV is over the other. In my option EVs acceleration should be limited simply due to there mass/weight and the fact that the vast majority of fire departments don’t have the training and/or equipment to handle an EV fire.

We have IX which is used around town or 2-3 hour round trips. It’s fantastic, if it wasn’t or I concluded that a Tesla is a better value I would have no reservations getting something else. If we are hitting road with the kids, it’s the clapped out 2012 dodge grand caravan //RT for the win. It might be dented, worn and endured 12 years of 3 boys ages 0 -16 doing the most unspeakable things to the interior, but it keeps trucking and has a dvd player.

As for charging. After a year of IX ownership, we have yet to use a public charger (I laugh at those suckers waiting for their cars to charge in the parking lot, they look miserable). That’s because we factored the cost of adding 240v/40 amp (level 2 charger) to our garage (> $1k). We charger at most 2 nights a week.

[brianeck]

Originally Posted by RigaTony1982

Or the electric 4 series is lumped in with that total.

Since they only sell an I in a "4," but its all sedan, looks like its basically murder by design for the 3. Classic Gerrymandering.

BMW Marketing: "The numbers don't lie, 3 series/sedans are dead"

[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jonathan

I don’t understand the obsession with how fast one SUV or sedan EV is over the other. In my option EVs acceleration should be limited simply due to there mass/weight and the fact that the vast majority of fire departments don’t have the training and/or equipment to handle an EV fire.

We have IX which is used around town or 2-3 hour round trips. It’s fantastic, if it wasn’t or I concluded that a Tesla is a better value I would have no reservations getting something else. If we are hitting road with the kids, it’s the clapped out 2012 dodge grand caravan //RT for the win. It might be dented, worn and endured 12 years of 3 boys ages 0 -16 doing the most unspeakable things to the interior, but it keeps trucking and has a dvd player.

As for charging. After a year of IX ownership, we have yet to use a public charger (I laugh at those suckers waiting for their cars to charge in the parking lot, they look miserable). That’s because we factored the cost of adding 240v/40 amp (level 2 charger) to our garage (> $1k). We charger at most 2 nights a week.

I love my iX on road trips. I’d do a cross country trip without thinking twice.

I do not, however, have three boys 0-16. So you win with the ‘beater’ van.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jonathan

I don’t understand the obsession with how fast one SUV or sedan EV is over the other. In my option EVs acceleration should be limited simply due to there mass/weight and the fact that the vast majority of fire departments don’t have the training and/or equipment to handle an EV fire.

We have IX which is used around town or 2-3 hour round trips. It’s fantastic, if it wasn’t or I concluded that a Tesla is a better value I would have no reservations getting something else. If we are hitting road with the kids, it’s the clapped out 2012 dodge grand caravan //RT for the win. It might be dented, worn and endured 12 years of 3 boys ages 0 -16 doing the most unspeakable things to the interior, but it keeps trucking and has a dvd player.

As for charging. After a year of IX ownership, we have yet to use a public charger (I laugh at those suckers waiting for their cars to charge in the parking lot, they look miserable). That’s because we factored the cost of adding 240v/40 amp (level 2 charger) to our garage (> $1k). We charger at most 2 nights a week.

We got 2 years of free 30 minute EA sessions. I’ve used it several times when I take the kids to the mall - no wait and actually puts a 30 minute limit on our shopping which is a necessary incentive/motivation to keep our shopping trip quick.

The iX is in its element cruising along in efficient mode - very smooth and comfortable. But the occasional sport + acceleration is like having our own roller coaster. Passing speed is ridiculous.

We’ve had the model 3 P and the model Y LR. Tesla’s shtick is massive,
Instant torque, but it does a number on your spine without the proper suspension and seats. I prefer massive horsepower without punishing torque. The setup in the iX is brilliant, and I will never buy another Tesla again.

[E60525d]

Originally Posted by AndreiPopescu

In 2023 lamborghini sold 1761 urus' worldwide. For the XM, 2315 was just US sales. US would have about 25% market share worldwide which means 9000-10000 XMs were sold worldwide in 2023. This means that in its first year alone XM outsold urus worldwide even though they have been making the urus since 2018.

It took Mercedes 10 years to sell more G wagon units per year than what BMW did for XM sales in the US in their first year.

Annual XM sales are also higher than Porsche cayenne turbo GT, Aston martin DBX, Ferrari purosangue, Audi RSQ8, Maserati levante trofeo, etc etc.

Your Urus figures are miles off, Lamborghini sold around 6000 worldwide last year.

[NewMinnesotaBMWOwner]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

X5 is still the best selling model despite slightly smaller YTD numbers.

Unspoken message to BMW: no need to mess with success.

Perhaps I am misreading this chart, but it sure looks like the X3 has outsold the X5 so far this year and the top seller across the line.

[The J-Man]

These numbers are actually quite bad for BMW. Without the X1 and 2 series, overall sales would be DOWN. Now consider that X1 and 2 are entry level low margin cars and that the higher priced models are flat or decreasing. Then factor in the subsidization of the electric models. Shocking that BMW is sticking to the normal 7 year cycle on the X5. Buyers are obviously viewing it as long in the tooth. I have a 2020 X5 purchased in 2019. It’s the longest I’ve ever owned a car because there is no compelling reason for me to upgrade.