05-17-2023, 04:57 PM | #67 | |
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autotrader (g80 comp review) throttle house (G82 comp) top gear (g82 CSL review) all said the zf8 isn't as good as the dct.
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2018 Porsche GT3 6MT 2021 M2C DCT Previous: Ferrari 458 | R35 GTR | F80 M3 | E46 M3 | E36 M3 | Scion FRS |
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05-17-2023, 05:00 PM | #68 |
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05-17-2023, 05:22 PM | #70 |
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Yeah...you made the right decision. (My e92 is DCT)
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2013 335is Mineral/Coral - DR 6466 - DR Mani - PI - Motiv FF - Dodson Clutches - OEM CF Roof - M3 GTS DCT/LSD/DS/Halfshafts/Suspension/Subframe/Brakes/Chassis Bracing F+R - DEFIV Diff Brace - 437M/R888R
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05-17-2023, 05:23 PM | #71 | |
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maybe soon we'll get a direct head to head video with the old M2C/ CS or RS3 to see what its like compared to DCT.
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05-17-2023, 10:02 PM | #72 |
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I flipped two GR Corollas a few months back. They are definitely fun and capable for the price but the interior is very basic, on a different (lower) league than any G8X BMW…
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05-17-2023, 10:45 PM | #73 | |
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Car and Driver tested the manual and found it to be slower than F87 Comp. The Auto however is almost line ball with F87CS! Half a second difference over the quarter from manual to auto G87. “Unfortunately, the M2’s changes bring an additional 184 pounds of mass compared with the old Competition model. Our 3745-pound test car weighed more than an M4 equipped with a manual transmission and carbon-ceramic brakes, and it was 0.1 second slower to 60 mph than the M4 or old M2 Comp, posting a 3.9-second time. In terms of top-gear acceleration from 30 and 50 mph, where engine responsiveness is key, the gap between the M2 and its predecessor is even more pronounced. Only at triple-digit speeds does the new car flex its stronger legs: While its 12.2-second quarter-mile pass may be just a tenth quicker than before, its 118-mph trap speed is 4 mph faster. The automatic version we tested was unsurprisingly quicker, sprinting to 60 mph in 3.5 seconds and covering the quarter-mile in 11.7 seconds at 122 mph, running wheel to wheel with the 503-hp M3 Competition.” |
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05-18-2023, 07:11 AM | #74 |
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Reviewers always have varying opinions on new cars. I own one and love it. It does exactly what I want it to do (and that is make me smile every day).
When I was a child my father taught me "opinions are like a$$holes. everyone has one and most of them stink." Do with that information what you will. |
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05-18-2023, 07:27 AM | #75 | |
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05-18-2023, 08:27 AM | #76 |
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I’ve stopped reading Camisa ever since … well … last week, when he didn’t publish a conclusion that aligned with my G87 bias
How dare this dude choose the slower, outgoing model |
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05-18-2023, 09:02 AM | #77 |
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Man stfu lol, we all know he’s always gonna pick the older and slower cars. He may hate modern cars but not everyone does so his opinion on the G87 should taken with a massive grain of salt knowing this.
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05-18-2023, 09:42 AM | #78 |
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05-18-2023, 10:01 AM | #79 | |
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I don't need my instrument cluster to be at the same depth as my touch screen. One of those I never touch and it would be nice to have it be shaded/set a little further back. Sorry, for going off topic, I just hate that this has become a thing across a bunch of cars/brands. |
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05-18-2023, 10:07 AM | #80 |
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I love how this forum gets upset if anyone says anything other than complete praise for whatever BMW model they're talking about. Matt from Obsessed Garage got hounded for saying the G80 M3 he had was too digital and that he hated it and was selling it because it just wasn't doing it for him. Jason here says much of the same - its an isolated experience, the ride is bad, id8 sucks, and it lost much of the charm the M2 was known for in exchange for a lot of the technical prowess the M3/4 have.
Anyone who has driven a 718 Cayman, a Miata, a GR86, or a 911 and compare it to a G80 can tell Jason isn't pulling this out of his ass. There's a certain amount of isolated feel the latest CLAR platform BMWs have that take away a lot of the fun factor compared to those cars listed. If that doesn't bother you, great, you're getting a fantastic car with a tremendous amount of performance capabilities and a nice, luxury experience inside. If you pay attention to Jason's other reviews, he's all about the driving experience, which is a hard to qualify metric. It's the human experience quotient he is excited about - the steering feel, shifter feel, the rush of excitement from the engine sound and vibrations it provides etc. It's not just Jason, look up youtube videos of Chris Harris talking about the new Civic Type R - a much slower car than the G87 and how much he sings its praises for the experience and fun factor it provides. Fun and speed are related to a point, but on the street the fun factor is more important for many vs. sheer performance numbers and speed. I don't think Jason's personal fleet of fun shitboxes shows an inherent bias here. The man has driven thousands of press cars spanning decades and when you have a new press car every week, you don't actually need your own modern car, you can collect all sorts of weird project cars and have fun with them. His reviews for pretty much every modern vehicle are genuine and honest. Vehicle specific forums have fallen into the same tribalism we see in politics, sports etc. Hop on Rennlist and the Porsche owners are sniffing their own farts and look down on other brands while debating the merits of Speed Yellow stitching over Racing Yellow stitching. Swing on by to Corvette Forums and they're posting about how good the C8 is in their matching leather jackets. Here, people, including those that have never even sat in or driven the model they're talking about, are ready to torch top tier automotive content creators like Cammisa and Throttle House because they said mean things about the latest BMW. |
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05-18-2023, 10:28 AM | #81 | |
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I don't disagree with what you're saying, but it's Cammisa's myopic view that is so undigestible, and rightly critiqued. For the exact reasons you stated, his opinion really doesn't mean jack for the average guy looking for a new car with a warranty because he has family and a job. His stance is geared toward retired dudes, or exceedingly rich dudes who have 10 car garages. It's just plain out of touch. And this is why people who agree with my take read and take to heart reviews from Automotive Journalists like Motortrend, Motorweek, CarandDriver, etc. They still maintain some "Everyman" view that helps to put relatable context behind the experience. I wonder how reliable Jason's shitboxes are? Who has the time to get their car serviced every month times 10 cars? Or wonder if it'll even start 1hr before a meeting across town? Here's the answer, less than 1%. Anyway, yeah, forums baby. Love it. |
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05-18-2023, 11:10 AM | #82 |
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Y’all are insane. You’re this mad because a journalist didn’t like your car. Makes no sense to me.
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05-18-2023, 12:06 PM | #83 |
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Here's a thought. When Cammisa said the F87 had some je nais se quois that was missing from the rest of the M lineup, the forum was in total agreement with that review. Now because Cammisa isn't a fan of the G87, his opinion is garbage?
If you agree that the G-series cars look and feel significantly different from the F-series, surely you can be a mature adult and agree that some people won't like those changes without attacking their credibility? The F87C is plenty modern, and Cammisa still liked it. It's disingenuous to say that Cammisa is incapable of giving a good review of a modern car because his personal collection is full of oldies. |
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05-18-2023, 01:47 PM | #84 | |
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Wait I have an answer, yes, auto. If I could do it all over again I would have had kids 10yrs sooner, bought a house with four car garage, and bet on Buster Douglas. But whatever. |
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05-18-2023, 07:05 PM | #85 | |
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People should should spend their money on what they want. I just can’t help but laugh a bit on how defensive these folks get when you say something they don’t like. Worse, how these folks go from loving car reviewers to hating them just because they won’t validate your car choice (see Throttle House). I guess folks really need that validation to justify what they spend their money on: |
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05-18-2023, 08:39 PM | #86 |
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BOO to over-generalization.
Not everyone in the forum is a homer with blinders on. Saying stuff like "the forum does X" ignores that the forum has a ton of debate and arguing, it's not an echo chamber of agreement by any means. Generalizing people is bad, m'kay? I bought a G87. But I also nodded to Jason and SavageGeese's reviews. They had many valid critiques. I can, in fact, like a car but still understand why others don't like it. I am capable of rational thought. So I'd prefer to not be painted with any broad brushes, thank you very much. P.S. TH's review WAS pretty bad. Not because they didn't like the M2, but because their methodology was misleading. |
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05-18-2023, 09:25 PM | #87 |
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Right, not to generalize but it seems to me that most current G87 owners or people showing real interest in owning one aren't the type to defend the brand at all costs. A lot of us didn't like the design choices for the M3/M4 and the M2 design is actually bringing in people new to the brand. I never thought I'd own another BMW after just 1 but the G87 seems that special to me and we've only seen the base model so far.
I actually find a lot of positive in what Jason is saying for what I want in a car that will be primarily used as a daily driver. The crap I don't like about the M2 probably just takes some getting used to, changed permanently in the UI, coded out, etc. Right now I split daily duty between a 335i and a Veloster N. One is harsh, as fast as you'll ever need for the street but 15 years old, while the other is brand new and a hoot but not near fast enough. I want a better balance between the two cars. I have a long commute (80+ mins each way on paper) and am always trying to get from A to B as fast as possible, especially heading to work. I take a completely different route home since back roads are actually quicker that time of day where I'm sure I'll find the M2 to be plenty fun. |
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05-18-2023, 10:14 PM | #88 | |
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