Question regarding canceling a extended warranty contract (help please)

[WickedE93]

So I decided since my car has such low mileage given it's age (27k and it's a 2011 purchased in 2010) I figured I would cancel my extended warranty contract. Had the car inspected by a BMW Mechanic I trust very well and he vouch's that the car is solid. Well I went in and canceled the contract before it became active (the car was still under factory warranty) I signed the authorization to terminate the contract and nothing was said regarding the amount I would be receiving back. Well it turns out I get a call a month later from the dealership stating they gave me the wrong form to sign and I would need to sign off on another form. The car is now out of factory warranty to I made it clear that the contract was canceled before it became active and I wanted that to be the cancelation date vs the later date due to it being there fault for providing me with the wrong form. They stated they will get back to me and let me know what the outcome is. I later receive an email stating I will only receive 81% of the amount I spent on the warranty as it was pro-rated from the time of purchase. My question is can they legally pro-rate something that was never used or even had the possibility of being used? It's not like it's a tangible item that lost value over time. If I would have bought it later vs at the time I purchased the vehicle it would have been the same price. I fail to see there justification of pro-rating other than them taking advantage of there customers. None of this was mentioned when it was purchased. Even the woman helping me originally agreed I was entitled to a full refund until it got rejected by higher ups from BMW. What do you guys think? Please help me out here.

[s85e90]

You should be calling them not looking for advice here. Raise/Escalate the issue.

You should know that yes, warranty refunds are pro-rated, but it seems your argument was that it was cancelled the day the contract was signed. You should receive 99-100$ of the total cost back. I cancelled a warranty like this prior and received a full refund. If you did have it in effect for some time, then yes, you will get a pro-rated refund.

Each company may also differ FYI. Good luck.

[WickedE93]

Originally Posted by s85e90

You should be calling them not looking for advice here. Raise/Escalate the issue.

You should know that yes, warranty refunds are pro-rated, but it seems your argument was that it was cancelled the day the contract was signed. You should receive 99-100$ of the total cost back. I cancelled a warranty like this prior and received a full refund. If you did have it in effect for some time, then yes, you will get a pro-rated refund.

Each company may also differ FYI. Good luck.

No I had purchased it when I bought the car back in December 2014 and at the time I wasn't sure if I needed it or not but I made the mistake of listening to the salesmen and he told me just get it now and if you decide you don't need it later just cancel it and we will refund you the money if it's canceled before the factory warranty expires. So I ended up canceling it in November 2014 which is a month before the factory warranty expired and I'm basically still at step one trying to get my refund.

I do plan to escalate the issue but only if I have a leg to stand on so to say (trying to figure that out with this post). It was never active not even for a day so I'm having a hard time understanding the grounds for them pro-rating the refund. More so if it's even legal especially because it's not on my contract anywhere.

[s85e90]

Now I get it. You bought it for coverage after the factory warratny would expire but purchased it while the car was in the original warranty period. Why on earth would you do that?

Lesson learned= EVERYTHING a salesman tries to "add" on to the car benefits their own pockets.

I hope you get your $$ back

[WickedE93]

Originally Posted by s85e90

Now I get it. You bought it for coverage after the factory warratny would expire but purchased it while the car was in the original warranty period. Why on earth would you do that?

Lesson learned= EVERYTHING a salesman tries to "add" on to the car benefits their own pockets.

I hope you get your $$ back

Exactly brother, sorry it was such a pain to get the point of the message out of me lol.

Yeah seriously they are the worst people on this earth 99% of the time. Right up there with proctologist if you ask me lol.

The reasoning was because it was added to my loan so I didn't have to fork it out in cash and he informed me this was only possible at the time of purchase. Later is when he informed me if I decided I didn't need it I could just cancel it because I had basically a whole year to think about it which is what lead to my decision of going with it.

[mjposner]

"You bought it for coverage after the factory warranty would expire but purchased it while the car was in the original warranty period. Why on earth would you do that?" He did that because it is my understanding that the factory extended warranty can only be purchased during the original warranty period.

If you want to cancel, put it in writing, and if they still refuse, you will need to review teh cancellation clause of the contract to see what your rights are to cancel early. many have a penalty or no cancel clause.

[Ggeezer]

A warranty contract is like an insurance policy. You're entitled to a pro-rated refund of the unused portion of the contract, based on time to expiration. Say 1.5 years have passed on a 3 year warranty and you want to cancel, you're entitled to 50% refund (provided you haven't exceeded the mileage restrictions of the contract) - no matter how often or how little you've actually used the warranty.

Since you purchased the contract prior to expiration of the factory warranty, it's important to figure out the effective date of the warranty contract. If the contract was effective on the day you purchased it, then it's as if you've used up that first year already since you were covered by the extended warranty. It's pretty unethical of the salesman to offer you to essentially "pay double" for warranty coverage in your last year but I wouldn't put it past him.

It's an unfortunate situation to be in but if the salesman told you that you'd be entitled to a full refund, try to get it in writing and look up any old communication you have with him.

[WickedE93]

Originally Posted by CASM3

A warranty contract is like an insurance policy. You're entitled to a pro-rated refund of the unused portion of the contract, based on time to expiration. Say 1.5 years have passed on a 3 year warranty and you want to cancel, you're entitled to 50% refund (provided you haven't exceeded the mileage restrictions of the contract) - no matter how often or how little you've actually used the warranty.

Since you purchased the contract prior to expiration of the factory warranty, it's important to figure out the effective date of the warranty contract. If the contract was effective on the day you purchased it, then it's as if you've used up that first year already since you were covered by the extended warranty. It's pretty unethical of the salesman to offer you to essentially "pay double" for warranty coverage in your last year but I wouldn't put it past him.

It's an unfortunate situation to be in but if the salesman told you that you'd be entitled to a full refund, try to get it in writing and look up any old communication you have with him.

Great information! Thank you very much, the extended warranty I purchased never went into effect and was scheduled to so do on December 15th. I canceled the contract around November 6th or so. I never used any portion of it nor even had the option to even if I had wanted to. This is the reason why I don't believe they should be able to pro-rate my refund. I sent them an email asking for a contact that is higher up that can actually help me come to a fair resolution. So I guess I will see what happens because this is just plain robbery in my opinion.

[WickedE93]

Originally Posted by mjposner

"You bought it for coverage after the factory warranty would expire but purchased it while the car was in the original warranty period. Why on earth would you do that?" He did that because it is my understanding that the factory extended warranty can only be purchased during the original warranty period.

If you want to cancel, put it in writing, and if they still refuse, you will need to review teh cancellation clause of the contract to see what your rights are to cancel early. many have a penalty or no cancel clause.

Thanks brother, I actually reviewed it and it states as long as it was cancelled before the it becomes active I'd be entitled to a full refund minus a $50.00 cancellation fee. They are trying to bs me with another document that states that 60 days after the purchase that it will be pro-rated either on how many miles the vehicle was driven or how long it's been since the purchase, which ever is greater.

My issues with that is 1 that I was never provided with this document nor did I sign anything agreeing to those terms and 2 is that it doesn't state whether the clause takes effect during the extended warranty period or prior to it so it's open to interpretation and can be swayed to there benefit which in this case they are trying to scam me out of my money using it.

[WickedE93]

After reviewing this document I believe I have just found a firm leg to stand on

http://assets.cobaltnitra.com/teams/...146efa6b30.pdf

Under section six it is stated that:

"If you cancel this Contract within the first sixty (60) days of the Purchase
Date, we will refund the entire Contract purchase price."

They are trying to use that as a reason not to provide me with my full refund and using it as a reason to pro-rate my refund from the date of purchase rather than waiting for it to become active (which it never did). For starters it does not say "the only way to receive a full refund" it's just a general statement of a way to you're eligible for a full refund.

It is later followed by:

"If this Contract is canceled after the first sixty (60) days of the Purchase
Date, and there has been no Claim, we will refund the pro rata portion
of the purchase price except as otherwise specified in Section 10 of this
Contract. The refund will be the lesser amount produced using either the
number of days that have elapsed since the Purchase Date or the number
of miles the Vehicle was driven prior to cancellation, less a cancellation
fee of fifty dollars ($50), except as otherwise specified in Section 10 of
this Contract."

The key there is that is states "and there has been no Claim" in order for there to be a claim the warranty/policy would have to be active which it was not so therefore it does not apply because in my situation there is no way that I could have ever made a claim so this must portray to those whom have active policies not those whom cancel prior to there warranty/policy becoming active.

This is just fighting the curve ball that they threw at me because prior to them sending me a screen shot of the highlighted tiny clause none of this was even mentioned nor was it on any of the documents I signed. I actually had to search sometime online to find this document and among that I found other documents regarding extended warranty so they can basically choose whatever they want to go by or even generate there own documents at this point because nothing is official other than what I signed.

This PDF I found actually makes a bit more sense

http://www.bmw.com.au/com/en/insight...urance-pds.pdf

Under section 3 it states:

"If you cancel the policy after the end of the cooling-off period or if we cancel the
policy at any time we will, subject to paragraph e. of this clause 3, refund any
premium paid, being an amount calculated to ensure that we retain a proportion
of the premium for time on risk and we recover our reasonable administrative
costs related to the acquisition and termination of the policy and any government
taxes or duties we cannot recover from another source."

At that point they spent no amount of "time on risk" and therefore I would be entitled to my full refund which I believe I am.

What do you guys think?

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by WickedE93

Thanks brother, I actually reviewed it and it states as long as it was cancelled before the it becomes active I'd be entitled to a full refund minus a $50.00 cancellation fee. They are trying to bs me with another document that states that 60 days after the purchase that it will be pro-rated either on how many miles the vehicle was driven or how long it's been since the purchase, which ever is greater.

My issues with that is 1 that I was never provided with this document nor did I sign anything agreeing to those terms and 2 is that it doesn't state whether the clause takes effect during the extended warranty period or prior to it so it's open to interpretation and can be swayed to there benefit which in this case they are trying to scam me out of my money using it.

I think you have a good argument, although you may need to escalate higher and higher before anything gets done. Based on the information you have provided, you cancelled the contract before it was active, so there 0 miles driven and 0 days elapsed since it became active. They can only pro-rate your coverage if you were at some point covered.

[WickedE93]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

I think you have a good argument, although you may need to escalate higher and higher before anything gets done. Based on the information you have provided, you cancelled the contract before it was active, so there 0 miles driven and 0 days elapsed since it became active. They can only pro-rate your coverage if you were at some point covered.

Yes sir that's the exact situation and that's the exact action I have taken. My message has been forwarded to the higher ups at BMW and I am waiting on there response. Thanks for responding and providing reassurance as well as advice. It's greatly appreciated

[burtonsbs5114]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

I think you have a good argument, although you may need to escalate higher and higher before anything gets done. Based on the information you have provided, you cancelled the contract before it was active, so there 0 miles driven and 0 days elapsed since it became active. They can only pro-rate your coverage if you were at some point covered.

I would agree, the company was at zero risk because you were still covered under the factory warranty. You should get a full refund, less any cancellation fee.

[KFN]

Originally Posted by WickedE93

So I decided since my car has such low mileage given it's age (27k and it's a 2011 purchased in 2010) I figured I would cancel my extended warranty contract. Had the car inspected by a BMW Mechanic I trust very well and he vouch's that the car is solid. Well I went in and canceled the contract before it became active (the car was still under factory warranty) I signed the authorization to terminate the contract and nothing was said regarding the amount I would be receiving back. Well it turns out I get a call a month later from the dealership stating they gave me the wrong form to sign and I would need to sign off on another form. The car is now out of factory warranty to I made it clear that the contract was canceled before it became active and I wanted that to be the cancelation date vs the later date due to it being there fault for providing me with the wrong form. They stated they will get back to me and let me know what the outcome is. I later receive an email stating I will only receive 81% of the amount I spent on the warranty as it was pro-rated from the time of purchase. My question is can they legally pro-rate something that was never used or even had the possibility of being used? It's not like it's a tangible item that lost value over time. If I would have bought it later vs at the time I purchased the vehicle it would have been the same price. I fail to see there justification of pro-rating other than them taking advantage of there customers. None of this was mentioned when it was purchased. Even the woman helping me originally agreed I was entitled to a full refund until it got rejected by higher ups from BMW. What do you guys think? Please help me out here.

Wicked:

For what it's worth, I recently went through the process of canceling a warranty through Toyota and never had to speak with anyone at the dealership. BMW may be different, but Toyota has a separate business arm that handles warranties. Perhaps you could get the number for that "department" and speak with someone directly, rather than going through the dealer. Also, dealers have been known to take customer cash without processing the warranty, banking on not having to honor any claims. Then they pull the old, "hmm, whoops, uh, we ah, never, umm, yeah sorry we'll get that processed right away sir...."

[WickedE93]

Originally Posted by burtonsbs5114

I would agree, the company was at zero risk because you were still covered under the factory warranty. You should get a full refund, less any cancellation fee.

Thank you brother, with all the mixed up bs answers I've been getting from them I've begun to feel like I'm going crazy. Glad to know my logic is still in place lol.

[WickedE93]

Originally Posted by KFN

Wicked:

For what it's worth, I recently went through the process of canceling a warranty through Toyota and never had to speak with anyone at the dealership. BMW may be different, but Toyota has a separate business arm that handles warranties. Perhaps you could get the number for that "department" and speak with someone directly, rather than going through the dealer. Also, dealers have been known to take customer cash without processing the warranty, banking on not having to honor any claims. Then they pull the old, "hmm, whoops, uh, we ah, never, umm, yeah sorry we'll get that processed right away sir...."

Great advice!!! I was actually just thinking about this if I got another ridiculous answer from them. I've been getting a ton of whoops, oops. sorry, you were misinformed, sorry we gave you the wrong form, that's a questions for the higher ups, we are working on that sir, or sorry sir that was a mistake and we can't do that 6 to 8 weeks later. I feel like i'm up to my neck in BS and the BS is thick let me tell you. My only hope might be to talk directly to the branch at BMW that handles this as you suggest otherwise I'm doomed to drown in BS.

[WickedE93]

Well guys I got a response. It's absolutely a crock of sh*t of a response as expected. Supposedly every avenue has been exhausted and there is no way BMW will honor the full extended warranty refund. They chose not to explain themselves in any way for their reasoning and gave me zero feedback on all of my questions, concerns, and reasoning. The only thing I got from them is them saying

"They always refund according to purchase date because you have the opportunity to enter into the extended warranty through mileage"

Well no f*ckin sh*t I do? I'm choosing not to and that's the whole point of the dispute. So therefore that's the most idiotic answer I could have received. By the way guys this is Beverly Hills BMW so I advise you stay away from these guys and take your business elsewhere because if your experience is anything like mine trust me you won't be happy.

I'm gonna call BMW Financial Services today and see if I get anywhere that way. I'm 99% sure this is the dealer BSing me trying to keep the commission they made of the sale of the contract.

I can't believe this is how they treat their customers, even after my family has purchased an E93 M3 my which is mine, an F10 M5 my Father, and a F80 M3 my Brother. A multi-billion dollar company can't be stupid enough to lose life time customers over $1,200 dollars or can they? I guess we will see shortly.

[modkrazy]

From the document language, it technically only looks at the Purchase Date, rather than coverage duration. However, considering they were never at risk, they can't take your money just because there was a risk that they might be at risk (if you went over your mileage). Their contract language is about as legally enforceable as the disclaimer on valet ticket stubs. They just hope people will go away, and yes, they don't care about scrapping a relationship over $100, much less $1200.

I would call BMW Financial Services, walk up that ladder. If that doesn't go, call BMW NA, and then work your way up to Munich if you have to. You will eventually either reach someone with the appropriate amount of reason and authority to compensate you, or you will annoy them enough to just pay you to go away. Let me know if you need help finding direct emails or numbers for executives, this wouldn't be my first rodeo with Bring My Wallet Inc.

[WickedE93]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

From the document language, it technically only looks at the Purchase Date, rather than coverage duration. However, considering they were never at risk, they can't take your money just because there was a risk that they might be at risk (if you went over your mileage). Their contract language is about as legally enforceable as the disclaimer on valet ticket stubs. They just hope people will go away, and yes, they don't care about scrapping a relationship over $100, much less $1200.

I would call BMW Financial Services, walk up that ladder. If that doesn't go, call BMW NA, and then work your way up to Munich if you have to. You will eventually either reach someone with the appropriate amount of reason and authority to compensate you, or you will annoy them enough to just pay you to go away. Let me know if you need help finding direct emails or numbers for executives, this wouldn't be my first rodeo with Bring My Wallet Inc.

I actually contacted both BMW Financial Services today as well as BMW North America, I asked whether they were with the ones who did not want to grant me the full refund or if it was the dealership? They let me know that the dealership was responsible and they have no say as it was purchased through them and they are the ones who need to issue the refund and send the funds back to BMW Financial Services so that they may refund me the money.

In numerous emails they mentioned speaking to "higher ups at BMW" and that they were the ones who said that they won't issue a my full refund and "that's just how BMW does it". I knew this made no sense that's why I questioned it and sure enough they were just feeding me BS as usual and they are the ones who don't want to grant the full refund. I spoke with their finance manager whom is the one who has the final say so (I only was able to find this out due to a 3 way call through BMW NA customer relations). I've dealt with the prick in person before and was extremely rude to me when I went in to cancel the contract on my 3rd attempt of walking in and never being given a call back after numerous calls and also asking for him to contact me when I went in person to cancel the contract twice because "he was the only one authorized to cancel warranty contacts", I had to catch him off guard in order for him see me and on top of that he made me wait a 1/2 hour in the waiting room so he can take his lunch and he's the one who gave me the wrong form to sign that wasted 2 months of my time from the beginning. I had a solid feeling he was the one who was refusing to grant me full refund and was trying to blame BMW NA. Sure enough I was right.

I called him out on it and also asked why him and his team had failed to give a response to my complaints and request to be proven otherwise and he chose again not to comment and went back to his first and only reasoning of

"If you cancel this Contract within the first sixty (60) days of the Purchase
Date, we will refund the entire Contract purchase price."

I told him again thanks for the information that's great to know but it doesn't apply here. I told him tell me where it states "the only way to obtain a refund of the entire purchase price is if you cancel within the first sixty days" That's just a general statement and tells you of one way of which you are eligible for a full refund and on top that you're referring to a sample contract so it's not even legitimate. I said again I was never notified of these terms, I never signed anything agreeing to these terms, and on top of the this is just a waste of time because no where in that document does it state I am not legally entitled to a full refund does it? does it? does it? He wouldn't answer so I told him tell show me where it states I am legally not entitled to a full refund and where I signed agreeing to this and I'll gladly accept a pro-rated refund. His response what that he was not there to speak legalities with me and that they have over 50 lawyers on staff that handle that. I told him great you can stop wasting my time then because I am here to discuss legalities and I'll gladly speak to any of the 50 lawyers you have on staff. He then choked up because I caught him off guard and proceeded to say that they are not readily available to speak with and I told him I will provide him with my contact information via email so that he can have them contact me because this is ridiculous and is unacceptable and I am not being scammed out of my money.

In the email I also asked for a list of the so called "higher ups" that they spoke to so that they can be referenced upon in the future. I know he was lying based on what I have just learned from BMW NA so I know he's sh*tting his pants. It's been over 8 hours and I haven't got any response once so ever. I am going to send him another email tomorrow stating it's been 24 hours and I haven't received a reply and I am going to give him a weeks time to either provide me with a document that legally states I am not eligible for a full refund and where I signed stating that I agreed to those terms otherwise I will be suing them in small claims court and I will also be suing for my pain and suffering as well as my lost time on top of the full refund price.

Even if they do have 50 lawyers on staff they will do them no good there. It's a for sure win if it get's to the point due to the fact they have failed to provide legal proof which I have requested so we will see if it gets that far. If they're smart they'll just give me my full refund because I'm sure BMW NA won't be too happy with someone of their general staff at the dealership representing their name in court vs the lawyers they pay mega bucks to do so.

Sorry for the poor grammar guys, just extremely frustrated from dealing with these imbeciles

[KFN]

Wicked,

I highly recommend you write a proper letter to BMW NA describing your experience, cc'ing your state attorney general's office via registered mail. Stick to the facts. This will get their attention, I promise.

Kristian

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by WickedE93

In numerous emails they mentioned speaking to "higher ups at BMW" and that they were the ones who said that they won't issue a my full refund and "that's just how BMW does it".

Ask to speak to those people directly. I am like Judge Judy, I don't give a crap what someone told you unless I can hear it from the horse's mouth. I guarantee they will have a much harder time saying "no refund" to your face. Email the big cheese: norbert.reithofer@bmw.de and express your disappointment in the image of BMW that this dealership and BMW Financial NA is conveying.

[WickedE93]

Originally Posted by KFN

Wicked,

I highly recommend you write a proper letter to BMW NA describing your experience, cc'ing your state attorney general's office via registered mail. Stick to the facts. This will get their attention, I promise.

Kristian

Great information and advise! Thank you very much