Is lowering bad for the car?

[YianniM3]

People are telling me don't mess with the M suspension... Ive never lowered a car that i owned and this is my first M so I'm little nervous. I was thinking of installing KW HAS next month but I'm a little hesitant now.

Does lowering the car put strain on other parts of the car. I like the lowered look and would like an even sportier ride. I ride in all three settings sport plus 90% of the time unless its a really bad road or i have a full car.

I know a lot of you and previous car owners lower your cars. Does it have a long term negative affect on the car?

[tooch]

Its not bad for the car if you know how to drive a lowered car. You have to be more cautious while driving, especially entering and exiting any types of driveways. my M4 is dropped on KW coil overs full kit, thats what I recommend. Ive lowered every car I've ever owned 15+

[ES_TRADER]

ive read that if the springs arent matched to the shocks, your oem shocks will wear faster...dont know the replacement cost but im sure its not cheap..thats why people get the coilovers for perfect match..

on a side note, ever car ive ever lowered in the past i ended up with squeaks and creaks going over bumps and driveways and more rattles than i started with...im hesitant about that..plus it wore my tyres faster than ever

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by ES_TRADER

ive read that if the springs arent matched to the shocks, your oem shocks will wear faster...dont know the replacement cost but im sure its not cheap..thats why people get the coilovers for perfect match..

on a side note, ever car ive ever lowered in the past i ended up with squeaks and creaks going over bumps and driveways and more rattles than i started with...im hesitant about that..plus it wore my tyres faster than ever

Yes, stiffer springs will wear out the stock shocks faster. But not a big deal as most people continue to drive on stock shocks well after they're worn out anyway, regardless of whether they have stock springs or not.

Wearing of tires is due to not setting proper alignment after lowering - specifically not setting proper toe and camber to a much lesser degree. If you aligned the vehicle properly, you should get close to the same tire life.

[MatthewDavid]

Wouldn't softer springs wear out the shocks faster given the implied additional motion and increased likelihood of bottoming out? I would think stiffer springs would reduce motion and decrease likelihood of bottoming out. I'm sure any additional load on the shocks, including lowering, would make them wear faster? I just can't imagine 50-60k miles or even 100k on a modestly (key word) lowered car would wear out the shocks.

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

Yes, stiffer springs will wear out the stock shocks faster. But not a big deal as most people continue to drive on stock shocks well after they're worn out anyway, regardless of whether they have stock springs or not.

Wearing of tires is due to not setting proper alignment after lowering - specifically not setting proper toe and camber to a much lesser degree. If you aligned the vehicle properly, you should get close to the same tire life.

[AM4ZING]

Originally Posted by YianniM3

People are telling me don't mess with the M suspension... Ive never lowered a car that i owned and this is my first M so I'm little nervous. I was thinking of installing KW HAS next month but I'm a little hesitant now.

Does lowering the car put strain on other parts of the car. I like the lowered look and would like an even sportier ride. I ride in all three settings sport plus 90% of the time unless its a really bad road or i have a full car.

I know a lot of you and previous car owners lower your cars. Does it have a long term negative affect on the car?

In theory, as a tech, and as an enthusiast who lowers every car on coilovers, I do agree that lowering springs compensate the vehicles ride and performance. Eventually the shocks will get weak, eventually the camber you chose to have will start chewing up tires, you'll hear creaks and weird noises each time the car is on an uneven surface, bushings will be put under great amounts of stress and weaken... there's a but...

BUT overall, WITH THE RIGHT SET OF WHEELS, THE CAR MUST BE LOWERED TO OBTAIN THE PERFECT STANCE! or straight up coilovers for track use.

So don't think about it to much. I will most likely install the KW HAS kit as my car is ordered with adaptive suspension. Good Luck with your decision

[Carl L]

If you are only lowering the car a little and with the right install you should be fine. But when people really lower their M3s they do indeed destroy the ability of the car to drive fast on anything but perfect pavement. I've tracked 4-gens now and have always kept the stock height, not saying it has to be this way just a personal decision that I've always made.

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by MatthewDavid

Wouldn't softer springs wear out the shocks faster given the implied additional motion and increased likelihood of bottoming out? I would think stiffer springs would reduce motion and decrease likelihood of bottoming out. I'm sure any additional load on the shocks, including lowering, would make them wear faster? I just can't imagine 50-60k miles or even 100k on a modestly (key word) lowered car would wear out the shocks.

Different forces at play here depending on shock design. Shorter springs that are progressive or not as stiff can cause the car to bottom out more. This may have the potential to damage the shock. But, in terms of actual wearing out of the damping force of the shock, it's the daily push/pull forces applied by the car as you go over bumps, etc. that does this.

Imagine a shock absorber that's designed to absorb a spring rate of 200 lbs/in. You then install a spring with a rate of 600 lbs/in. The shock is now being forced to work 3x harder to resist the much stronger rebound force of the 600 lbs/in spring. The shock cannot do this well so what happens is the car feels bouncy and suspension oscillates which through more up/down strokes further increasing wear on the shock.

As for the number of miles a stock shock absorber lasts, the reality is virtually all shocks lose a significant amount of damping force in even 30K miles with stock springs. People just don't notice it. If you were to compare 2 identical cars with stock suspensions one with 1K miles and one with 30K miles, you would definitely feel the difference in less rebound and compression damping of the shock. But, most people don't care.

So, yes, a modestly lowered car will wear out the stock shocks in 50k-60k miles or less. But, most people wouldn't really care or notice. Sometimes though it's really bad. When the car goes over a bump and keeps oscillating up and down without stabilizing, you know the shocks have either lost a large part of their damping, or the shocks were way underdamped anyway for the stiffness of the spring.

[MatthewDavid]

Dude, this is great! Thanks for the thorough explanation. I'm planning to modestly (Swift or Eibach) lower this M4 (when I eventually get it...) and will put about that many miles on it (15-18k/year) before turning it in (lease). It seems like I should be ok, right? I'm tired of being afraid to lower! Haha

Originally Posted by AlterZgo

Different forces at play here depending on shock design. Shorter springs that are progressive or not as stiff can cause the car to bottom out more. This may have the potential to damage the shock. But, in terms of actual wearing out of the damping force of the shock, it's the daily push/pull forces applied by the car as you go over bumps, etc. that does this.

Imagine a shock absorber that's designed to absorb a spring rate of 200 lbs/in. You then install a spring with a rate of 600 lbs/in. The shock is now being forced to work 3x harder to resist the much stronger rebound force of the 600 lbs/in spring. The shock cannot do this well so what happens is the car feels bouncy and suspension oscillates which through more up/down strokes further increasing wear on the shock.

As for the number of miles a stock shock absorber lasts, the reality is virtually all shocks lose a significant amount of damping force in even 30K miles with stock springs. People just don't notice it. If you were to compare 2 identical cars with stock suspensions one with 1K miles and one with 30K miles, you would definitely feel the difference in less rebound and compression damping of the shock. But, most people don't care.

So, yes, a modestly lowered car will wear out the stock shocks in 50k-60k miles or less. But, most people wouldn't really care or notice. Sometimes though it's really bad. When the car goes over a bump and keeps oscillating up and down without stabilizing, you know the shocks have either lost a large part of their damping, or the shocks were way underdamped anyway for the stiffness of the spring.

[YianniM3]

Sounds like i should just go for the KW HAS kit and forget what others have to say about not touching the suspension

[Vectors2final]

You should be fine as long as you don't go beyond what is appropriate for the dampeners and sway bars. You see people with slammed cars and no endlinks, which will pretty much make your car handle/feel worse because the sways will be out of geometry.

Moderate drops won't have much effect on the way sway bars work, because they're still in an acceptable range.

[YianniM3]

Yes. I am not into the slammed look just want to get rid of little bit of the wheel gap and kind of even out the front and rear gap

Originally Posted by Vectors2final

You should be fine as long as you don't go beyond what is appropriate for the dampeners and sway bars. You see people with slammed cars and no endlinks, which will pretty much make your car handle/feel worse because the sways will be out of geometry.

Moderate drops won't have much effect on the way sway bars work, because they're still in an acceptable range.

[John P.]

Have lowered my last 2 Audis (TT on springs and shocks, S5 on coilovers). The S5 looks amazing and rides well, however ...

Won't be lowering my M3. Not worth the croaks and pops in the suspension and interior pieces.

[John P.]

Originally Posted by YianniM3

Sounds like i should just go for the KW HAS kit and forget what others have to say about not touching the suspension

I wish--there are plenty of complaints of noise with this system.

[crashtestdummy81]

The bushings in most suspension set ups are designed to work at a specific angle .This angle provides an amount of preload on the bushing.
When fitted with the weight off the wheels these bushings are fitted in a relaxed state by lowering the ride height the loading on these bushing will be increased and they are only made of a rubber compound. Some types of bushing can be loosened off and retightened with a slight loading on the wheels to achieve the correct loading, others are incapable of being "adjusted" in this way.
Looking on realoem it looks like the front doesn't contain this type of bushing but there are 2 of these bushes fitted either side on the rear suspension (at least on F83).

[AustinY 2208]

BMW Engineers build this car perfect out of the box and I won't change a thing IMO

[mshab356]

Originally Posted by John P.

Have lowered my last 2 Audis (TT on springs and shocks, S5 on coilovers). The S5 looks amazing and rides well, however ...

Won't be lowering my M3. Not worth the croaks and pops in the suspension and interior pieces.

I can understand croaks/sounds from the suspension when lowering, but why interior pieces?

[John P.]

Originally Posted by mshab356

I can understand croaks/sounds from the suspension when lowering, but why interior pieces?

Less suspension travel and stiffer springs can put more stress on the chassis. The F80s are incredibly torsionally rigid, but still ....

[mshab356]

Originally Posted by John P.

Less suspension travel and stiffer springs can put more stress on the chassis. The F80s are incredibly torsionally rigid, but still ....

True, that makes sense. Thabks

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by AustinY 2208

BMW Engineers build this car perfect out of the box and I won't change a thing IMO

This is true if you don't track your car. If you do track your car, get camber plates at a minimum or you'll shred your tires to pieces.

Never lower an M with Springs or HAS kit. You're not going to improve the performance of it. Go coil overs or go home. K&W V3 with camber plate, K&W CS, TCKline are great option and they will improve the way the M corners.

[AustinY 2208]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

This is true if you don't track your car. If you do track your car, get camber plates at a minimum or you'll shred your tires to pieces.

Never lower an M with Springs or HAS kit. You're not going to improve the performance of it. Go coil overs or go home. K&W V3 with camber plate, K&W CS, TCKline are great option and they will improve the way the M corners.

So you're saying M car are not track capable out of the box even with EDC?

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

This is true if you don't track your car. If you do track your car, get camber plates at a minimum or you'll shred your tires to pieces.

Never lower an M with Springs or HAS kit. You're not going to improve the performance of it. Go coil overs or go home. K&W V3 with camber plate, K&W CS, TCKline are great option and they will improve the way the M corners.

good post. BUT, I think that dinan is going to offer a good, not great, solution for those who want to lower their car a little without ruining the handling. they will offer a few pieces along with their "sleeve style" spring kit to modify the stack height to preserve suspension travel a la F13 M6 kit they offer.

the best rule of thumb is to lower the car as little as humanly possible. the lower, the worse it will perform (when done with stock shocks or shocks that are not significantly shortened).

Originally Posted by AustinY 2208

So you're saying M car are not track capable out of the box even with EDC?

he means that camber plates are necessary for fast drivers. this car, while fast on track, is very heavy and doesn't run a lot of camber stock. without camber plates, you will put a lot of pressure on the outside of your front tires. even with a race tire designed with a strong outer edge, you will get fast tire wear.

camber plates preserve tire life and improve turn in (at the slight expense of high speed stability).