Stealership Venting!!

[avol3xo]

Sooo, I experienced the dreaded "High Battery Discharge" warning a couple of months ago. I used the BMWhat app to monitor the battery voltage while driving and noticed the voltage was strangely dropping while driving the car and not while it was off. My first thought was to test the battery and once I realized that the recommended battery was not installed, I called interstate battery and replaced it with the goliath 60lb agm battery, then registered the battery.

Okay cool, so everything seems fine, the battery is holding strong around 13.1V while driving never dropping below 13.0V. Last week I take a trip home for Memorial Day weekend. Jackson, MS from Atlanta, GA, around 350miles total. When I stopped in Alabama to fill up I get the "High Battery Discharge" warning again. Okay so now I'm upset, turn the car off and fill up then try to turn it back on....nothing. Lucky enough to get a jump start and voila everything is back to normal, battery charge level is good again and I complete the remainder of the 200miles home.

Monday afternoon, I get ready to leave MS and head back to GA, stop and get a bite to eat and get ready to start the car....nothing. So I call roadside assistance to get a jump and it starts right up. I make it about 2 miles and all the systems start to give error messages and the car shuts down, battery reading 9.5V at this point. I'm lucky enough to be close to an Auto Zone, I go in and buy a new $200 agm battery. My thought at this point is, if the last new battery lasted a couple of months then I can buy time until I make it back to Atlanta and leave it at the dealer. Boy was I wrong.

Get about 90miles down the road and boom, everything is shutting off again and eventually the car shuts down. I made it off the exit when I got the warning lights and hook up to the trickle charger to get the battery back charged and only make it another 30 miles before it shuts down again. This time I'm completely pissed and I call roadside assistance from Boligee, AL at 11:41pm. I end up not getting a tow until 2hrs later and since they will only pay to take me to the nearest dealer, I end up eating the difference around $600 to get back to Atlanta.

We arrive at the dealer at 7:30am Tuesday morning, no sleep, a full night ride. I check in with an SA finding out my usual SA has left and gone to MB 😑. I tell him exactly why the car had to be towed and he says ok, I give him my 3rd party warranty info and I'm all set to leave. No loaner car because they are all gone or reserved for appointments. Fine, I'll make the train and Uber work for a couple of days. They call me 2 days later to say that the DSC unit/module is bad and the battery is bad, this is their diagnosis. And I Ask well why is the battery losing charge then, and he says because the battery is bad. Okay I call my warranty company and they agree to pay for the DSC unit but only if it is an aftermarket or refurbed unit and the dealer refuses to install anything but new oem so they want me to eat the difference of $600. Finally I go to the dealer, take my battery out myself because they wanted to charge an hour labor to take it out, use the dealer shuttle to go to AutoZone and exchange the battery and reinstall it. Now today they want to charge an extra $300 in labor for a draw test after maxing out my warranty at $2200 for the dsc unit that I never had problems with.

My car has now been at BMW for a week and no answer yet as to why the alternator is not charging the battery because they alternator, starter, and battery have all passed the test. I told them today forget about the dsc unit, I just need the battery to stay charged while driving so fix whatever the problem is there. I've been paying $5 round trip for the train and $20 round trip for Uber a day since last week. It's pretty ridiculous.

Ok, done...

[buddalun]

I don't really see how the dealer is to blame here. It just sounds like an unfortunate situation and a shitty (typical) warranty company type issue.

Also, did you "code" in the AGM battery you bought from AutoZone? The BMWWHat App has the ability to do this if you purchase in the in-app upgrade.

[avol3xo]

Originally Posted by buddalun

I don't really see how the dealer is to blame here. It just sounds like an unfortunate situation and a shitty (typical) warranty company type issue.

Also, did you "code" in the AGM battery you bought from AutoZone? The BMWWHat App has the ability to do this if you purchase in the in-app upgrade.

The dealer is to blame because they didn't diagnose the problem that I originally brought the car there for, instead they suggested another fix for a system that I haven't had any problems with except for the low battery throwing crazy codes for all systems. The first thing I told them to diagnose was the battery discharge problem and they did not do that and still have not even attempted a draw test until I asked them again to do one today.

And yes I registered the battery with the In App purchase, well worth the $9.99. Thanks.

[Tracyis300]

I strongly believe its the alternator. It's not charging the battery.

You should of did the alternator test by "starting the car up, and disconnecting the battery"
if it shuts off on you? Then you will know its the alternator! Not the battery.

[avol3xo]

Originally Posted by Tracyis300

I strongly believe its the alternator. It's not charging the battery.

You should of did the alternator test by "starting the car up, and disconnecting the battery"
if it shuts off on you? Then you will know its the alternator! Not the battery.

I did that actually and once it stayed on and the second time it did turn off. The dealer keeps saying that the alternator is fine and they keep trying to blame the "non-oem" battery that has 12.7V of new charge. Maybe the alternator is on its way out and is charging intermittently.

[spiderspider]

i'm not going to claim any expert knowledge here, but my history with BMW's means I never use aftermarket batteries in these cars. my X5 started doing all sorts of crazy shit after using the autozone battery. And putting one in once it's already at the dealer...I'm not surprised that's what they're ultimately blaming. Not saying they're right, but it's an easy excuse at this point. Who is your warranty through?

[avol3xo]

Originally Posted by spiderspider

i'm not going to claim any expert knowledge here, but my history with BMW's means I never use aftermarket batteries in these cars. my X5 started doing all sorts of crazy shit after using the autozone battery. And putting one in once it's already at the dealer...I'm not surprised that's what they're ultimately blaming. Not saying they're right, but it's an easy excuse at this point. Who is your warranty through?

Warranty is through Carchex, it was a relatively inexpensive coverage for my vehicle in its advanced age and it's paid monthly. I understand where you're coming from, but since the battery was registered I'm not going to let them lean on that excuse. Hopefully they will do a proper draw test today and come up with something else.

[Beemdog]

BMW does not make batteries. They are all "aftermarket". Installing any size-appropriate AGM battery should not be a problem unless the battery or charging system (or electrical connections!) are defective.

[avol3xo]

Originally Posted by Beemdog

BMW does not make batteries. They are all "aftermarket". Installing any size-appropriate AGM battery should not be a problem unless the battery or charging system (or electrical connections!) are defective.

My thoughts exactly, but unless you buy it directly from them and pay them an additional ~$200 to register the battery they try to use that as a crutch. I'm going to call my SA and tell them to start the car and disconnect the battery to see what happens.

[rantarM3]

I recently had some issues after replacing my original battery with an OEM battery (also registered through BMWWhat App). It turned out to be (1) the DSC unit and (2) the EDC module, both of which were replaced by the dealer (thankfully under warranty). The car would show errors but on restart, they would be gone. You won't like to hear that I had to wait nearly 3 weeks to get my car back because the DSC unit had to be shipped from Germany.

Good luck!

[avol3xo]

Originally Posted by rantarM3

I recently had some issues after replacing my original battery with an OEM battery (also registered through BMWWhat App). It turned out to be (1) the DSC unit and (2) the EDC module, both of which were replaced by the dealer (thankfully under warranty). The car would show errors but on restart, they would be gone. You won't like to hear that I had to wait nearly 3 weeks to get my car back because the DSC unit had to be shipped from Germany.

Good luck!

Was the issue the battery not charging while the car was turned on? I can't imagine that the DSC unit could cause this.

[anom3]

i unfortunately do not believe it is this simple with a bmw.

especially one with the "igr" system, like our e9x m3s.

the alternator has a (magnetic?) clutch and is turned on / off when the ecu thinks it necessary to charge the battery.

ever notice your rpm bump up by about 200 rpm while stopped at a red light? 600...700...800... yep that would be the ecu bumping up the rpm as the alternator is turned on. you'll also notice the same behavior when high voltage items are turned on. for example the main cooling fan. depending on how your vehicle is coded (production year etc) you'll notice the same behavior when you throw your high beams on.

so if you disconnect the battery while the motor is idling at its minimum idle (eg: alternator off), there will be no time to transition from alternator off to on and the car will probably shut off.

i could be way off, but thats my understanding anyways.

alternator on? rpm goes up by a few hundred.

battery level low or high current items on? turn on the alternator.

otherwise keep it off, so the parasitic draw (if moving) is low, or if not moving the idle rpm can be kept a few hundred lower.

good luck!

ps : i am still unsure if this is the exact reason why rpm is a big higher during cold starts. it would make sense for the vehicle to bring the voltage up using the alternator after the battery has lost some of its voltage over night etc etc.

Originally Posted by avol3xo

My thoughts exactly, but unless you buy it directly from them and pay them an additional ~$200 to register the battery they try to use that as a crutch. I'm going to call my SA and tell them to start the car and disconnect the battery to see what happens.

[rantarM3]

Originally Posted by avol3xo

Was the issue the battery not charging while the car was turned on? I can't imagine that the DSC unit could cause this.

I monitored the system through the app and it seemed to be charging fine, no voltage drop. The voltage dropped about 1-2 hours after the car was parked and the car exhibited symptoms of a bad battery. So I replaced it, thought everything was fine, and then started getting dash lights. First the yellow vehicle on lift, and a couple of times the DSC lights came on. I guess my point is that perhaps the DSC controller is so sensitive to voltage variations that it can easily get damaged. In the back of my mind I also wonder if the app does the programming properly or if there's some issue with it, although I acknowledge it is unlikely. It just seems quite coincidental that after replacing the battery, these other issued popped up.

On the EDC unit repair, they first thought the battery had a bad cell but they tested it and found it to be fine.

Did you pull the CC ID from the Check Control menu?

[avol3xo]

Originally Posted by anom3

i unfortunately do not believe it is this simple with a bmw.

especially one with the "igr" system, like our e9x m3s.

the alternator has a (magnetic?) clutch and is turned on / off when the ecu thinks it necessary to charge the battery.

ever notice your rpm bump up by about 200 rpm while stopped at a red light? 600...700...800... yep that would be the ecu bumping up the rpm as the alternator is turned on. you'll also notice the same behavior when high voltage items are turned on. for example the main cooling fan. depending on how your vehicle is coded (production year etc) you'll notice the same behavior when you throw your high beams on.

so if you disconnect the battery while the motor is idling at its minimum idle (eg: alternator off), there will be no time to transition from alternator off to on and the car will probably shut off.

i could be way off, but thats my understanding anyways.

alternator on? rpm goes up by a few hundred.

battery level low or high current items on? turn on the alternator.

otherwise keep it off, so the parasitic draw (if moving ) is low, or if not moving the idle rpm can be kept a few hundred lower.

good luck!

ps : i am still unsure if this is the exact reason why rpm is a big higher during cold starts. it would make sense for the vehicle to bring the voltage up using the alternator after the battery has lost some of its voltage over night etc etc.

Thanks,

It's still strange to me that all of the charging tests came back fine, I'd love to sit at bmw and hold their hand while they test it but I have an 8-5 job. The discharge of the battery is pretty apparent when the car is running. I'm still awaiting word from them this afternoon.

[avol3xo]

Originally Posted by rantarM3

I monitored the system through the app and it seemed to be charging fine, no voltage drop. The voltage dropped about 1-2 hours after the car was parked and the car exhibited symptoms of a bad battery. So I replaced it, thought everything was fine, and then started getting dash lights. First the yellow vehicle on lift, and a couple of times the DSC lights came on. I guess my point is that perhaps the DSC controller is so sensitive to voltage variations that it can easily get damaged. In the back of my mind I also wonder if the app does the programming properly or if there's some issue with it, although I acknowledge it is unlikely. It just seems quite coincidental that after replacing the battery, these other issued popped up.

On the EDC unit repair, they first thought the battery had a bad cell but they tested it and found it to be fine.

Did you pull the CC ID from the Check Control menu?

No, I didn't know anything about pulling the CC ID, what would this indicate?

[anom3]

i hear ya.

btw:

unsure if its possible to 'back out' of the dsc unit swap yet... but if it were possible what i would tell them is please just disconnect the dsc unit and leave it be until the battery issue is fixed.

you'll have the whole christmas tree lights on your dash, abs wont work and either will some other items... but you wont be in limp mode and your car will work just fine.

i recently updated the firmware on my dsc and didnt 'reset' it after, so the car thought the dsc unit was broken. lots of lights, no abs, but no limp mode either. car ran just fine.

i BELIEVE it is located at your abs pump. should be fairly easy to get there and unplug it.

btw #2:

i also dont believe its possible to get a "USED" dsc unit. the vin has to match your vehicle which is only possible if its a "virgin" module straight from bmw. unless your a super-pro who knows how to virginize the dsc module, which is way beyond me (think solder and plugging the unit up to your pc with 'direct' access to the software on there). this might be a point to bring up with your insurance as there is no such thing as an aftermarket OR refurb dsc module.

Originally Posted by avol3xo

Thanks,

It's still strange to me that all of the charging tests came back fine, I'd love to sit at bmw and hold their hand while they test it but I have an 8-5 job. The discharge of the battery is pretty apparent when the car is running. I'm still awaiting word from them this afternoon.

[avol3xo]

Originally Posted by anom3

i hear ya.

btw:

unsure if its possible to 'back out' of the dsc unit swap yet... but if it were possible what i would tell them is please just disconnect the dsc unit and leave it be until the battery issue is fixed.

you'll have the whole christmas tree lights on your dash, abs wont work and either will some other items... but you wont be in limp mode and your car will work just fine.

i recently updated the firmware on my dsc and didnt 'reset' it after, so the car thought the dsc unit was broken. lots of lights, no abs, but no limp mode either. car ran just fine.

i BELIEVE it is located at your abs pump. should be fairly easy to get there and unplug it.

btw #2:

i also dont believe its possible to get a "USED" dsc unit. the vin has to match your vehicle which is only possible if its a "virgin" module straight from bmw. unless your a super-pro who knows how to virginize the dsc module, which is way beyond me (think solder and plugging the unit up to your pc with 'direct' access to the software on there).

And the weird thing is I didn't have any problems with the DSC unit either until the low battery charge left the dash with Christmas lights. I told them don't mess with the DSC until they find out what is cause the battery drain while the car is running. We'll see what happens.

[rantarM3]

Originally Posted by avol3xo

No, I didn't know anything about pulling the CC ID, what would this indicate?

It's a quick way to check the code. There's list of the various codes and what they mean. Look at this thread:

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ttery-problems

I got the same code (415) but it turned out to be the EDC module and nothing to do with the battery.

Originally Posted by anom3

i hear ya.

i BELIEVE it is located at your abs pump. should be fairly easy to get there and unplug it.

btw #2:

i also dont believe its possible to get a "USED" dsc unit. the vin has to match your vehicle which is only possible if its a "virgin" module straight from bmw. unless your a super-pro who knows how to virginize the dsc module, which is way beyond me (think solder and plugging the unit up to your pc with 'direct' access to the software on there).

Yes, the module is attached to the hydraulic pump. The hard lines have to be disconnected to allow removal of the DSC unit, and then you can take the controller off. You would need to activate the DSC unit to bleed it and the lines properly after this repair.

On your second point, you are correct. Per my invoice, the DSC unit was coded and I've read that a new controller has to be mated/programmed to the car.

[avol3xo]

Originally Posted by rantarM3

It's a quick way to check the code. There's list of the various codes and what they mean. Look at this thread:

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ttery-problems

I got the same code (415) but it turned out to be the EDC module and nothing to do with the battery.

Yes, the module is attached to the hydraulic pump. The hard lines have to be disconnected to allow removal of the DSC unit, and then you can take the controller off. You would need to activate the DSC unit to bleed it and the lines properly after this repair.

On your second point, you are correct. Per my invoice, the DSC unit was coded and I've read that a new controller has to be mated/programmed to the car.

Okay, good info. I guess I'm also curious then what is actually draining the battery because connecting directly to the battery shows how the voltage drops. Could a faulty unit drain more power than the alternator can make up for that quickly?

[Beemdog]

If the DSC controller was drawing enough current to prevent the running car from charging properly, it would be smoking hot. It would take several hundred watts to drain the battery with the alternator in full charge mode. Typically, when a new battery runs down while driving it is the alternator or related voltage controlling system that is bad.

[avol3xo]

Originally Posted by Beemdog

If the DSC controller was drawing enough current to prevent the running car from charging properly, it would be smoking hot. It would take several hundred watts to drain the battery with the alternator in full charge mode. Typically, when a new battery runs down while driving it is the alternator or related voltage controlling system that is bad.

That was my thought as well, I hope they can figure it out. This is the largest BMW Dealer in the Atlanta Metro area. Surely they have someone capable of troubleshooting this issue.

[jra85]

Originally Posted by rantarM3

I recently had some issues after replacing my original battery with an OEM battery (also registered through BMWWhat App). It turned out to be (1) the DSC unit and (2) the EDC module, both of which were replaced by the dealer (thankfully under warranty). The car would show errors but on restart, they would be gone. You won't like to hear that I had to wait nearly 3 weeks to get my car back because the DSC unit had to be shipped from Germany.

Good luck!

While the symptoms of my problem weren't quite as severe as what you're observing OP (my car never died while driving), I just got my car back last week after having what sounds like the same or very similar issue as rantarM3 quoted above.

My car started doing the Increased Battery Discharge warning late last year, brought it into the dealer, the battery passed testing but since it was 3.5 years old they decided to swap it out under warranty. The car sat in the garage on a battery tender through most of the winter, I started driving it again a couple months ago in the spring, and again started receiving the Increased Battery Discharge warning on the brand new battery. Tried leaving it on the tender, but it must have got to the point where the drain was faster than the rate the tender could charge because the tender never was able to reach the "fully charged" level. A few days later the battery died completely, and the car couldn't even be jumped, so I had to get it towed to the dealer.

At the dealer, they first thought the IBS (Intelligent Battery Sensor) was shorting out, causing a drain, so they swapped it out. I went to pick the car up after this was performed, and at the dealership the Increased Battery Discharge warning appeared! So I left it there for them to keep searching, and they finally concluded the EDC module kept powering on/off while the car was off for some reason, causing battery drain. So they swapped that out too. It's been a few weeks now and at this point the battery tender is able to charge the battery fully, and I haven't had the Increased Battery Discharge again.

Just figured I'd throw that out there if both the battery and alternator are coming back as healthy.