X5 wallows on the highway what suspension option would most economically correct?

[Mlgatl]

So I am ordering an X5 d. Was going to be a 16 now I guess a 15 because of the production delay for 16 diesels.

I took a loner diesel home for the night. So I am getting an extended test drive. On the highway and in general the car wallows. Granted I am used to a 535 but I feel like my Honda Odyssey wallows less and is more precise steering wise.

I want to consider some of the suspension packages. What will give me more BMW sedan or coupe like handling? is DHP the best choice and or would M adaptive or the other package give me more of what I want?

Confused in Atlanta- Mike

[Blackhawks]

This is unfortunately a blind purchase as you will be hard pressed to find a dealer with these suspensions. I took the Adaptive M suspension as I could justify $900 but not $4500 on a guess or recommendation. I'm still in my break in period so I haven't done any spirited driving... But those with the DHP swear by it and those with the Adaptive M find it more than adequate.

[Kzang]

There are so many discussion on this, I would try searching before starting another thread on suspension options... I would start with the sticky thread http://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=913797 and do your homework from there.

[Alan l.]

For what it's worth I came from two F10s and I find the Adaptive M on my X5 better than my previous cars...

If you could swing the cost for the DHP without blinking then go for that. Everyone that has it raves about it mostly because of torque vectoring making the X5 feel even more nimble.

Alan

[greekmike]

I test drove the X5 with Standard Suspension and also didn't like how it wallowed (Rocked left and right like a boat), I mentioned this to my salesperson who then said; "you need to drive the one with the M-Sport package because it has really good suspension". He was somewhat correct; it doesn't have really good suspension, it has better suspension. However the car still wallowed, but just not as much.
The price of the M-Sport suspension is $4500 which is mostly cosmetic with the exception of the Dynamic Damper Control + Rear Axle Air Suspension, I will ignore the paddle shifters and the sports tuned transmission because I personally have never used paddle shifters in any car I have owned.

For $4500 you can get Dynamic Handling Package which includes the Dynamic Damper Control + Rear Axle Air Suspension + Dynamic Performance Control + Active Roll Stabilization (THIS IS ANTI-WALLOW).

My 550i has the M-Sport and it's fine because you can tighten up the suspension; but if you want a smooth ride that doesn't rock left and right Active Roll Stabilization is specifically designed to do that. The other features don't prevent wallowing; they simply tighten up the suspension for a sportier feel.

This topic has definitely been discussed ad-nauseum on this forum and the other forum as KZANG posted.

It's a shame very few dealers do not carry a car with this option; I would call around all the dealers in your area and see if one has it, sometimes someone orders it and they back out of buying the car and they have one on the lot. I test drove one on July 2nd and ordered my X5 July 3rd with that option.

[akhter]

I have m adaptive on diesel and coming from an f10. In comfort the car wallows as you say. In sport it does not.

[turboawd]

i noticed the wallowing when i went from a 550i to the x5 with standard suspension. now i'm just used to it and it seems normal. lol

[Mlgatl]

Originally Posted by turboawd

i noticed the wallowing when i went from a 550i to the x5 with standard suspension. now i'm just used to it and it seems normal. lol

That may be part of it. Perhaps I just need to get used to it. It doesn't help that I pushed the 535 hard yesterday because I knew I was trading it in.

[bubbahead]

My f10 550ix had DHP. It was night/day difference from a friends f10 550ix without DHP.
With the x5 m-adaptive suspension now, in sports mode it doesn't 'wallow' on the highway but pretty sure with DHP you wouldn't feel any smidget of a wallow. But 'economically' for you, spending $4500 isn't what you want. If you haven't test drove a DHP, then don't and you'll never know what you're missing. Getting the m-adaptive suspension will suit you well coming from a 535.

[realsgy]

I have an X5 x35i with DHP on 19" AW run-flats. It is super stable. I had to put the seat as low as I could because riding high and not feeling any body roll weirded me out. Drove it for long periods over 90MPH this weekend (on the Mexican section of our trip and it was so smooth, almost boring.

Originally Posted by Mlgatl

Granted I am used to a 535 but I feel like my Honda Odyssey wallows less and is more precise steering wise.

I had the previous gen Odyssey Touring. That van had super stiff suspension mainly to compensate for the heavy Michelin run-flats. Not your average minivan suspension.

[42pilot]

Originally Posted by turboawd

i noticed the wallowing when i went from a 550i to the x5 with standard suspension. now i'm just used to it and it seems normal. lol

For a vehicle this tall, body roll is expected without some type of adaptive suspension - and I refer to the adaptive suspension on all four wheels, not just the rear.

I have standard suspension and like it just fine. I expect a certain amount of body roll but it's predictive if you pay attention. I have 13,000 miles on mine and have scalloped the front tires already (I know, the Dunlops are crap, but still).

The real kicker here is, shocks and springs have very little to do with the body roll. Body roll is all about anti-sway bars. I am still looking for someone to make larger bars for the front and rear, even if they are custom-made. Getting a set of 24mm solid anti-sway bars would wake the standard suspension up big time and make the steering feel brand new.

For me, the standard suspension package is actually quite good on these cars.

But then I get in my SL550, hit the Sport and ABC (Active Body Control = zero body roll) buttons, and explore the limits of the Pilot Sports....

[turboawd]

Originally Posted by 42pilot

For a vehicle this tall, body roll is expected without some type of adaptive suspension - and I refer to the adaptive suspension on all four wheels, not just the rear.

I have standard suspension and like it just fine. I expect a certain amount of body roll but it's predictive if you pay attention. I have 13,000 miles on mine and have scalloped the front tires already (I know, the Dunlops are crap, but still).

The real kicker here is, shocks and springs have very little to do with the body roll. Body roll is all about anti-sway bars. I am still looking for someone to make larger bars for the front and rear, even if they are custom-made. Getting a set of 24mm solid anti-sway bars would wake the standard suspension up big time and make the steering feel brand new.

For me, the standard suspension package is actually quite good on these cars.

But then I get in my SL550, hit the Sport and ABC (Active Body Control = zero body roll) buttons, and explore the limits of the Pilot Sports....

running a bigger rim and lower profile tire helps a little bit, due to less tire flex.
as for a thicker bar,it will corner better, but you'll diminish the effects of having independent suspension. the sway bar twists somewhat when a tire on one side hits a pothole for example. but if the bar is too thick, it wont twist and will transfer the jolt to the other side of suspension also.

[realsgy]

Originally Posted by 42pilot

The real kicker here is, shocks and springs have very little to do with the body roll. Body roll is all about anti-sway bars. I am still looking for someone to make larger bars for the front and rear, even if they are custom-made. Getting a set of 24mm solid anti-sway bars would wake the standard suspension up big time and make the steering feel brand new.

Wait a minute, isn't it the anti-roll bars that are causing the wallowing?

Anti-roll bars will reduce body roll while cornering, but when going straight on uneven surface (basically all US highways - what's the deal with no asphalt, people?), it will not let the wheels it connects to move completely independent to eve things out.

Take your typical American cruiser, it will float over the highway when driving straight, but it will turn like a boat.

I always thought DHP helps with wallowing because it will _soften_ the anti-roll bars when going straight.

Am I wrong?

[42pilot]

Originally Posted by turboawd

running a bigger rim and lower profile tire helps a little bit, due to less tire flex.
as for a thicker bar,it will corner better, but you'll diminish the effects of having independent suspension. the sway bar twists somewhat when a tire on one side hits a pothole for example. but if the bar is too thick, it wont twist and will transfer the jolt to the other side of suspension also.

I raced and taught high-speed driving at Road Atlanta for 11 years and used 24mm solids at both ends of my Porsche 930. The key is buying parts that are designed to work together for the intended purpose. My 930 weighed 2600 lbs, so the 24's were perfect to keep it flat around corners - my wife said, 'on rails". When I drove it home from the track, I moved the mounting brackets back about 1 1/4 inches and I had a smooth ride.

Also, a properly made sway bar (like most) will not transmit problems from one side to the other. Additionally, the coil-overs on each corner will neutralize that. Properly made, the torsional rigidity of a properly chosen sway bar will improve drivability of these top-heavy cars. From the factory, BMW combines ride quality with handling and comes up with a solution that fits the majority which is mostly comfort given an SUV. That's why the active suspension is ~$9,000 more. In this thread, the problem is body roll and the only way to correct that on a standard suspension car is a bigger (how much bigger? dunno - would have to ask the expert who makes them giving corner weights, total weight, intended use, center of gravity and existing suspension details) anti-sway bars.

[42pilot]

Originally Posted by realsgy

Wait a minute, isn't it the anti-roll bars that are causing the wallowing?

Anti-roll bars will reduce body roll while cornering, but when going straight on uneven surface (basically all US highways - what's the deal with no asphalt, people?), it will not let the wheels it connects to move completely independent to eve things out.

Take your typical American cruiser, it will float over the highway when driving straight, but it will turn like a boat.

I always thought DHP helps with wallowing because it will _soften_ the anti-roll bars when going straight.

Am I wrong?

You are good up to the point you assume the anti-sway bars are completely rigid. They aren't unless you get bars that are triple the size of what you need. Don't get me wrong - bigger anti-sway bars will tighten your ride up (not stiffen) a bit but not a great deal. You are also assuming the coil-over suspension is not doing its job of rebound and dampening on uneven surfaces. Any bounce or lack thereof from the anti sway (which is near zero) will be managed by the suspension. That's why you cannot throw any size anti sway bar on a car and expect an improvement.

The active suspension on my SL550 does not use any anti-roll bars or springs. Why should it? It is sending 4,000 psi of hydraulic fluid to each shock absorber and monitoring the compression and rebound about 120 times per second using 6 sensors per shock. It can react much quicker than any spring or anti sway bar, and completely loose the rebound (bounce). These suspensions are courtesy of Formula 1 and are hybrids of those successful systems. No anti sway bars on them when this system was legal. Remember, this thread is about excessive body roll, not cushy ride - the two don't mix.

There is a lot of good information on the web on how to set up a performance suspension for your application. Bigger is not always better, but properly matched equipment (like suspension components) is a joy to drive.

[wjbender]

Originally Posted by akhter

I have m adaptive on diesel and coming from an f10. In comfort the car wallows as you say. In sport it does not.

I have adaptive M and with it this is one of the best handling Sport Utility Vehicles. Only the Porsche Cayenne handles better. In Comfort mode the Adaptive M is well - comfortable. In
sport or Sport + it tightens the steering and dampers so that body roll is reduced to acceptable. Get over it - this 6000 lb high center of gravity vehicle is never going to handle like a sports sedan and still retain any level of comfort.

[vangoose]

Originally Posted by wjbender

I have adaptive M and with it this is one of the best handling Sport Utility Vehicles. Only the Porsche Cayenne handles better. In Comfort mode the Adaptive M is well - comfortable. In
sport or Sport + it tightens the steering and dampers so that body roll is reduced to acceptable. Get over it - this 6000 lb high center of gravity vehicle is never going to handle like a sports sedan and still retain any level of comfort.

I had E70 before F16, E70 is heavier but it is a lot more stable at high speed with stock suspension, the electric steering is also part of the reason for instability at high speed too on F15/16.

F15/16 is nice but handles much worse then E70/E71.

[wjbender]

Originally Posted by vangoose

I had E70 before F16, E70 is heavier but it is a lot more stable at high speed with stock suspension, the electric steering is also part of the reason for instability at high speed too on F15/16.

F15/16 is nice but handles much worse then E70/E71.

No one ever talks about how comfortable the ride was in the E70

[RR-NYC]

I'll throw in my 2 cents

I drove the three different suspensions on the X5 (standard, adaptive M, and DHP) at length through various back roads and highways. IMO the difference between the standard suspension and adaptive M were minimal but noticeable. The difference between standard and DHP was significant. For the money, I would take the adaptive M suspension but they didnt have one optioned the way I wanted so it left me choosing between standard and DHP - I ended up buying the standard because I just didn't see the value.

I bought the X5 because I needed an SUV. I bought the M Sport package because it looks great. I'll put the $4500 I saved towards my GT3 fund.

[wjbender]

Originally Posted by RR-NYC

I'll throw in my 2 cents

I drove the three different suspensions on the X5 (standard, adaptive M, and DHP) at length through various back roads and highways. IMO the difference between the standard suspension and adaptive M were minimal but noticeable. The difference between standard and DHP was significant. For the money, I would take the adaptive M suspension but they didnt have one optioned the way I wanted so it left me choosing between standard and DHP - I ended up buying the standard because I just didn't see the value.

I bought the X5 because I needed an SUV. I bought the M Sport package because it looks great. I'll put the $4500 I saved towards my GT3 fund.

I think the standard suspension is fine. I wanted the air rear because I tow a boat.