Hamann engine tuning

[charlietangobravo]

Does anyone here have experience with the Hamann engine tuning range?
I´ve had several Hamann products before but never their engine optimisation.

I´m looking into the tune for my M50d which will bring the power up to
462 hp / 340 kW at 4000 - 4400 rpm
(standard: 381 hp / 280 kW at 4000 - 4400 rpm)
max. torque 890 Nm at 2000 - 3000 rpm
(standard: 740 Nm at 2000 - 3000 rpm)

I´m still waiting on some answers from them regarding warranty etc.
I´ve previously been opposed to tuning such a relatively small engine that already has a high output but I suppose they should know what they are doing?

Would like to hear some input from someone who's tried it.

[42pilot]

Originally Posted by charlietangobravo

Does anyone here have experience with the Hamann engine tuning range?
I´ve had several Hamann products before but never their engine optimisation.

I´m looking into the tune for my M50d which will bring the power up to
462 hp / 340 kW at 4000 - 4400 rpm
(standard: 381 hp / 280 kW at 4000 - 4400 rpm)
max. torque 890 Nm at 2000 - 3000 rpm
(standard: 740 Nm at 2000 - 3000 rpm)

I´m still waiting on some answers from them regarding warranty etc.
I´ve previously been opposed to tuning such a relatively small engine that already has a high output but I suppose they should know what they are doing?

Would like to hear some input from someone who's tried it.

"Knowing what they are doing" and selling an engine tune for profit are not always in alignment. Be very careful in your research as a poor tune can melt your engine FAST and you'll be stuck paying 100% of the repair. It's always best to get technical data like dyno graphs using vehicles with your exact engine (so you know exactly what you are getting and where the power is applied), and references of others who have the tune installed - and working. Any good tuner will provide this gladly.

[charlietangobravo]

Originally Posted by 42pilot

"Knowing what they are doing" and selling an engine tune for profit are not always in alignment. Be very careful in your research as a poor tune can melt your engine FAST and you'll be stuck paying 100% of the repair. It's always best to get technical data like dyno graphs using vehicles with your exact engine (so you know exactly what you are getting and where the power is applied), and references of others who have the tune installed - and working. Any good tuner will provide this gladly.

Thanks for the input.
I would be more hesitant if the tuner was a shady semi-unknown one. Hamann has been tuning and racing BMWs since -86 and is very well-known in the EU at least.
I know their complete builds are very popular in the middle east nowadays.
I would let them tune my engine way before sticking some generic chip on it which a lot of people on this forum are doing.

I would put Alpina, AC Schnitzer and Hamann in the same league quality wise. Personally.
They used to have really generous warranties and I presume and hope they still do. Still waiting on some answers from them regarding that.
Would be interesting to hear from someone who's had their engine tuned by them.

Check out their range, pretty crazy cars some of them
http://www.hamann-motorsport.com/en/

[sssmokie]

charlietangobravo I beleive Armen383 tunned his M50d with A.C.Schnitzer. You might want to look into his posts on the topic. Unfortunately, the car did not live to see long term feedback

I am also hesitant on whether or not to tune my M50d. To my surprise, I had a Mercedes CLS 350 Cdi beat me twice from 80 km/h. The only time I beat him was when we did the same test on a steep part of the motorway.

However, I am planning to use my car for at least 5 years and even planning on upgrading the BMW warranty to 6 y / 100 000 km. SO I dont want to take any risks as well... Not sure how long the tunners warranty is, so if you get some answers let us know.

Thanks!

[charlietangobravo]

Originally Posted by sssmokie

charlietangobravo I beleive Armen383 tunned his M50d with A.C.Schnitzer. You might want to look into his posts on the topic. Unfortunately, the car did not live to see long term feedback

I am also hesitant on whether or not to tune my M50d. To my surprise, I had a Mercedes CLS 350 Cdi beat me twice from 80 km/h. The only time I beat him was when we did the same test on a steep part of the motorway.

However, I am planning to use my car for at least 5 years and even planning on upgrading the BMW warranty to 6 y / 100 000 km. SO I dont want to take any risks as well... Not sure how long the tunners warranty is, so if you get some answers let us know.

Thanks!

Thank you!
I´ll look into that. Doesn't sound good though...
I´m gonna have my car for at least 2 more years but that´s why I want to tune it! Actually quite disappointed with the acceleration on it. And the "fuel-saving" aspect is a bit of a joke. I´m always around 1.2L/10km which I also was in my previous car, 550 GT. Which had a V8... I do have a heavy foot though.

Edit:
Found a thread where Armen383 said all was fine and well with the Schnitzer tune. He ended up crashing the car though.

[Kzang]

I'm surprised to hear that M50d is a joke in regards to fuel savings.. Most people that reviewed the M50d here praise the performance (massive torque) and brag about how much fuel they save while having fun driving. I guess in order to achieve the higher mpg you have to drive conservatively.. which is boring to me.

[charlietangobravo]

Originally Posted by Kzang

I'm surprised to hear that M50d is a joke in regards to fuel savings.. Most people that reviewed the M50d here praise the performance (massive torque) and brag about how much fuel they save while having fun driving. I guess in order to achieve the higher mpg you have to drive conservatively.. which is boring to me.

That is definitely so. I´m just glad it has a bigger fuel tank than the 550 GT. Otherwise I´d be refuelling just as often. Less fuel stops was a big reason for choosing this particular engine. But might as well have bought some jerry cans and a V8 again.
My record range estimation by the car has been around 800kms. With 85 liters in the tank thats not quite the 0.66L/10km/combined driving that BMW suggests, which would be a range of about 1280km....

[sssmokie]

I guess it really depends how you drive. I did a trip around Italy for 4000 km with 4 people and luggage all the time and without pushing it a lot and in eco pro mode almost all the time it returned 10 l / 100km.
In the city i get 11.5 - 13 l / 100 km depending on how much fun I have. But I also did a trip to Greece ~ 900 km and driving around 100 kph returned 8.2 l / 100 km...

Tbh acceleration feels nice, but I am not sure if I did not make a mistake by not getting the 50i... I wonder what the fuel consumption would have been like.

Let us know when you get any news about the warranty.

Originally Posted by charlietangobravo

That is definitely so. I´m just glad it has a bigger fuel tank than the 550 GT. Otherwise I´d be refuelling just as often. Less fuel stops was a big reason for choosing this particular engine. But might as well have bought some jerry cans and a V8 again.
My record range estimation by the car has been around 800kms. With 85 liters in the tank thats not quite the 0.66L/10km/combined driving that BMW suggests, which would be a range of about 1280km....

[42pilot]

Something's not right here....

[charlietangobravo]

Originally Posted by 42pilot

Something's not right here....

Where?

[Armen383]

Hey guys Since I'm still lurking around bimmerfest forums from time to time (force of habit I guess) and noticed my name being mentioned, wanted to point one one important thing to remember with regards to engine tuning. Any piggy-back solution that involves cutting OEM wires or similar intrusion to OEM systems (i.e. AC Schnitzer and the likes) can't be removed without dealership noticing the installation shall the things go south (knock on wood). Now, if for any reason the engine dies and you had a detectable tune, it's a no-brainer for the dealership to blame the tune even if the fault was caused by lazy BMW engineering at its best (*waves @ 4.4 5.0i").

In general BMWs diesel engines are far more capable in terms of longevity than their petrol counterparts. All-in-all though - you're better off w/o a tune if you're worried about warranty in a long run. The only company I know of that offers a proper warranty (i.e. engine dies = we replace) is Brabus, but that is: a) not for BMW; b) a WHOLE lot of money and a COMPLETELY different league to AC Schnitzer/Hamann/etc.

[42pilot]

Originally Posted by charlietangobravo

Where?

Your stock fuel economy and acceleration, or lack thereof.

[charlietangobravo]

Originally Posted by 42pilot

Your stock fuel economy and acceleration, or lack thereof.

I see. Well, I doubt there is something wrong with the car. I even had BMW check it because I felt the acceleration was slightly delayed. Like turbo lag. They found nothing. Don't get me wrong, the car is not slow. I´m just not impressed with the acceleration. At all.

The fuel consumption is self inflicted I suppose. Very rarely touch the Eco pro button... Drive in sport 90% of the time and constantly fast. Weird thing is that I drove the same in my previous car. Weight and air resistance probably factors in more on the X5.
It´s due for the first oil service now so I´ll tell them to check the data.

Edit, the more I think about it the stranger the fuel economy seems. Just remembered that I had pretty much the same consumption in my X6 50i back in 2008-2009. Same driving style if not more aggressive. I´ll tell BMW to check it.

[elisiX]

Some interesting comments on the M50d.

I've just purchased one and am awaiting its arrival, though I too had doubts as to whether or not I should have gone with the 50i. Sound alone almost got me there!

However in saying that, everything else drew me to the M50d. Fuel consumption, drive (M tuning), performance and most importantly, resale. This can't be underestimated.

Looking back over past years at resale values on the 50i tell a pretty poor story, at least in Oz. we're becoming increasingly drawn to diesels in SUV's, and the V8's just tank.

You could easily be 15-20% worse off when it comes time to sell a V8 X5 in Australia. Whereas the diesel will fare significantly better on the second hand market.

Resale aside, I also felt the M50d felt more exclusive and provided a nicer feeling under acceleration in typical 0-60 and 60-100km/h driving. Instant response to throttle input.

In the end what really pushed me was a ridiculous deal where I got my M50d, optioned and spec exactly the same as the equivalent 50i, for 2k less than the best deal I could get on the 50i.

There's a 10-12k difference in retail on these two cars here.

Regarding fuel consumption, time will tell.

I borrowed my bosses M50d X6 (last model) last year. Aside from the interior which I really disliked, and the Dakota leather which I really disliked, it was incredibly fun to drive.

If my 15' X5 M50d is anything like this was, it's going to be very enjoyable.

[charlietangobravo]

I can add to the thread that I was quoted 2800usd for the Hamann engine tune (chip basically) and that it voids all BMW warranties and Hamann do not offer any warranty themselves.
So to do it while your engine is covered by BMW would be quite stupid I guess, unless you are prepared to pay for a new engine if anything happens to it.
Real lousy by Hamann in my opinion. If they do believe in their product and charge that amount for it they should offer their own warranty.

Edit:
Also, I tried driving like a proper old lady and managed to get my range above 1000km. Once. Impossible to keep doing that though. Back to my regular 400-500km range now.

[elisiX]

I would often get 600km out of my SQ5 (3.0TDI - twin turbo). Range would always say 800, but only ever hit 700 once from highway driving. I generally drove the SQ5 like I stole it also.

I'd be surprised, even with spirited driving to only get 400 from the M50d....

[Kzang]

Originally Posted by charlietangobravo

Edit:
Also, I tried driving like a proper old lady and managed to get my range above 1000km. Once. Impossible to keep doing that though. Back to my regular 400-500km range now.

(Not directing this message to you Charlie but in general..)

The thing is I can drive VERY conservatively, select my drive mode to eco-pro on my 35i and get some amazing mileage for an SUV. But I rather enjoy driving my X5 than to calculate my fuel savings on a weekly basis. Why get a performance vehicle like the m50d and drive it like ms daisy?

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by Kzang

(Not directing this message to you Charlie but in general..)

The thing is I can drive VERY conservatively, select my drive mode to eco-pro on my 35i and get some amazing mileage for an SUV. But I rather enjoy driving my X5 than to calculate my fuel savings on a weekly basis. Why get a performance vehicle like the m50d and drive it like ms daisy?

I'm with you.

My X5 is in sport mode 99.9% of the time. I work all week long and I like to enjoy DRIVING when I can. The extra cost for gas is insignificant for me since that difference could just be me buying one less jacket or going out to eat less a few times a year.

Granted the situation would be different for those that have long commutes 7 days a week which I completely understand.

Alan

[Nipperkin]

Just purchased the 2021 M50d for the very same reasons you just described.

As they are now discontinued I think resale should be pretty good when I’m eventually ready to move on. I went in there looking for a petrol, as I’ve only ever driven diesel BMW in the past, this one being my fourth.

I do also wonder whether I should have gone for the 50i, but I’m sure this will perform just fine.

I’ve been open to getting it tuned, but after reading comments and having the lack of long term feedback I think I’ll leave it be! It’s a beaut to drive. I’ll treat myself to an M next time…

Originally Posted by elisiX

Some interesting comments on the M50d.

I've just purchased one and am awaiting its arrival, though I too had doubts as to whether or not I should have gone with the 50i. Sound alone almost got me there!

However in saying that, everything else drew me to the M50d. Fuel consumption, drive (M tuning), performance and most importantly, resale. This can't be underestimated.

Looking back over past years at resale values on the 50i tell a pretty poor story, at least in Oz. we're becoming increasingly drawn to diesels in SUV's, and the V8's just tank.

You could easily be 15-20% worse off when it comes time to sell a V8 X5 in Australia. Whereas the diesel will fare significantly better on the second hand market.

Resale aside, I also felt the M50d felt more exclusive and provided a nicer feeling under acceleration in typical 0-60 and 60-100km/h driving. Instant response to throttle input.

In the end what really pushed me was a ridiculous deal where I got my M50d, optioned and spec exactly the same as the equivalent 50i, for 2k less than the best deal I could get on the 50i.

There's a 10-12k difference in retail on these two cars here.

Regarding fuel consumption, time will tell.

I borrowed my bosses M50d X6 (last model) last year. Aside from the interior which I really disliked, and the Dakota leather which I really disliked, it was incredibly fun to drive.

If my 15' X5 M50d is anything like this was, it's going to be very enjoyable.

[devlinsky]

Don't tune M50d. Just don't. Not enough power? Get a X5M or 50i.

But why not tune it? Pretty 2 simple reasons:

- your transmission is maxed out around the stock parameters. Tune the engine and your transmission will die soon after. It might not be a cheap experience.

- if anything goes wrong with the engine, like injectors or turbos, the dealer will check the logs of the engine, will find out about your tune (even if the tune will be erased before the dealer visit) and will revoke your warranty.

Hence I decided to keep my M50d stock and I'm pretty happy with it.

[Jakesax]

Originally Posted by devlinsky

Don't tune M50d. Just don't. Not enough power? Get a X5M or 50i.

But why not tune it? Pretty 2 simple reasons:

- your transmission is maxed out around the stock parameters. Tune the engine and your transmission will die soon after. It might not be a cheap experience.

- if anything goes wrong with the engine, like injectors or turbos, the dealer will check the logs of the engine, will find out about your tune (even if the tune will be erased before the dealer visit) and will revoke your warranty.

Hence I decided to keep my M50d stock and I'm pretty happy with it.

You can have the ecu flashed completely back to stock rather than just removing the map which will wipe any evidence of the map.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by charlietangobravo

Thanks for the input.
I would be more hesitant if the tuner was a shady semi-unknown one. Hamann has been tuning and racing BMWs since -86 and is very well-known in the EU at least.
I know their complete builds are very popular in the middle east nowadays.
I would let them tune my engine way before sticking some generic chip on it which a lot of people on this forum are doing.

I would put Alpina, AC Schnitzer and Hamann in the same league quality wise. Personally.
They used to have really generous warranties and I presume and hope they still do. Still waiting on some answers from them regarding that.
Would be interesting to hear from someone who's had their engine tuned by them.

Check out their range, pretty crazy cars some of them
http://www.hamann-motorsport.com/en/

Agreed.