Questions regarding equipment/specs of the M3 v 335i

[rai]

for some reason the M3 v 335 thread is closed.

I have a couple of questions, I am leaning towards one or the other but not 100%, I like to know as much as possible before I decide on one. I plan on keeping the car a long time so I am not the type to trade in after 2-3 years. So I kind of live with my mistakes..

Questions..

Anyone driven both 335i and M3 would care to comment on how / why the M3 is worth the $15K?

I like high RPM engines, I have a S2000, I drove 911 GT3 and really like the extra thousand or so of revs, however I have not driven many cars with TQ flat from low to high like the turbo 335i, I wonder does that make it boring or less involving?

BTW I do plan on the MT. Many times with lower RPM engines I find I want to keep it in gear longer (ie. wish there was another 1000 rpms which is something you can not add to an engine).

Which weighs more? M3 or 335i If the M3 weighs more why is that? Which has the better (more rearward) weight distribution?

I see the M3 (stock) has a lower stereo (less speakers) is this really a lesser stereo is the M3 upgrade speaker system a higher level than the 335i base system?

Is the M3 a lot nicer interior? I realize they share some things, but is the trim or leather or seats much better for the M3? Especially are the seats much better? I know the M3 has alcatran headliner (should be nicer etc.., what else is on the M3 that's not on the 335i?

I hate sunroofs. I buy cars sometimes by what can I find without a sunroof. HECK, thats a big selling point for me. I mean it's not like I'd pay $15K extra (LOL) to not have a sunroof but I would pay extra, for example if the 335i had a delete sunroof option I'd be all over it. Now this does not mean I can't buy the 335i since it only has a sunroof but just one small reason I like the M3.

Which do you think is going to last longer? i mean I hear people saying the M3 engine is great for the warranty period but get rid of it when it's 50K miles. I do not buy cars thinking that. I mean I want to keep it a longer time if possible so the expensive M3 can be taken over 8-10 years. I do not mean I want to pay for it for 10 years, just if it's so much money and I keep it 100 months (or whatever) it seems to be like I'm not paying so much since I'm keeping it long. But then if people think the engine won't last many years that's a point against. I know we don't know, but how has the M5 engine held up? Is it showing that it can last a longish time?

About the LSD.. does this help the m3 a lot? If so when / where? I seen a video where the M-Diff was so great on wet or wet/dry roads. I just wonder if people think one or the other would be better for driving in rain say. I don't mean driving like mad or in snow with snow tires would the M-Diff be any better or worse than the 335?

I do not love to mod. I have been known to mod my car but in general, I'd like to buy the factory car and not worry about breaking into the differential or the engine also I know the MORE I MOD, the closer the car costs to the better car in the first place. For example say I got a 335i and put $8K into it that's half way to the M3. I do like to save money (ie. cheaper 335i) which is part of my debate. If they were close in price (say like the 328i to 335i price gap there is no question but this is a $16K price gap). However I do realize cars cost more (ie. Cayman to Cayman S or C6 to C6 Z06 or 911S to 911 GT3). So the price gap does make some sense to me, it's just the 335i seems so good on paper but I don't know if the M3 has many intangibles (such as the higher RPM engine, no sunroof, LSD, sportier or better interior, etc..).

Thanks.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by rai

for some reason the M3 v 335 thread is closed.

I have a couple of questions, I am leaning towards one or the other but not 100%, I like to know as much as possible before I decide on one. I plan on keeping the car a long time so I am not the type to trade in after 2-3 years. So I kind of live with my mistakes..

Questions..

Anyone driven both 335i and M3 would care to comment on how / why the M3 is worth the $15K?

Sorry, I can't help you in terms of driving impressions for those two particular cars. If you haven't driven an M car the specs may not seem that impressive. My E46 M3 experience thells me the important things, engine, suspension, etc. are all upgraded a notch or two and the overall package just feels right. Pride of ownership may or may not be important to you, as well.

I like high RPM engines, I have a S2000, I drove 911 GT3 and really like the extra thousand or so of revs, however I have not driven many cars with TQ flat from low to high like the turbo 335i, I wonder does that make it boring or less involving?

The M3 has a very flat and wide torque curve, but it's the hp at the upper revs that makes is come alive and very special. No way an M3 is boring. Makes a great daily driver, as well, because you don't have to rev it like the S2000 to keep up with traffic. Should be effortless in normal use.

BTW I do plan on the MT. Many times with lower RPM engines I find I want to keep it in gear longer (ie. wish there was another 1000 rpms which is something you can not add to an engine).

I think you'll find all the revs you need with the M3.

Which weighs more? M3 or 335i If the M3 weighs more why is that? Which has the better (more rearward) weight distribution?

The M3 weighs a bit more. V8 engine, reinforced body and suspension, transmission cooler, steering cooler, bigger clutch, bigger brakes, wheels and tires, larger radiator, etc., etc. Weight distribution is identical between the two (51.2/48.8 coupe).

I see the M3 (stock) has a lower stereo (less speakers) is this really a lesser stereo is the M3 upgrade speaker system a higher level than the 335i base system?

The Enhanced Premium Audio is the same as the one in the M5/6, quite a notch above the Logic7, as the price indicates. More info. here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113303 and http://www.m3post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=127.

Is the M3 a lot nicer interior? I realize they share some things, but is the trim or leather or seats much better for the M3? Especially are the seats much better? I know the M3 has alcatran headliner (should be nicer etc.., what else is on the M3 that's not on the 335i?

The leather used is nicer, and different trim options, steering wheel, etc., but not night and day different. Headliner is Not Alcantara.

I hate sunroofs. I buy cars sometimes by what can I find without a sunroof. HECK, thats a big selling point for me. I mean it's not like I'd pay $15K extra (LOL) to not have a sunroof but I would pay extra, for example if the 335i had a delete sunroof option I'd be all over it. Now this does not mean I can't buy the 335i since it only has a sunroof but just one small reason I like the M3.

Each to his own!

Which do you think is going to last longer? i mean I hear people saying the M3 engine is great for the warranty period but get rid of it when it's 50K miles. I do not buy cars thinking that. I mean I want to keep it a longer time if possible so the expensive M3 can be taken over 8-10 years. I do not mean I want to pay for it for 10 years, just if it's so much money and I keep it 100 months (or whatever) it seems to be like I'm not paying so much since I'm keeping it long. But then if people think the engine won't last many years that's a point against. I know we don't know, but how has the M5 engine held up? Is it showing that it can last a longish time?

Many E46 M3s going over 100k without major issues. I have no data on the M5, but my guess is the weak link will be electronics in any modern BMW. Engine durability should not be a concern until around 150k, then it's a very expensive rebuild. 6-7 years is a good time to turn most modern cars.

About the LSD.. does this help the m3 a lot? If so when / where? I seen a video where the M-Diff was so great on wet or wet/dry roads. I just wonder if people think one or the other would be better for driving in rain say. I don't mean driving like mad or in snow with snow tires would the M-Diff be any better or worse than the 335?

Definitely a plus; lack of a LSD is big weak point on the 335. The MLock unit is pretty sophisticated and will help getting all the power down, particularly in low traction situations.

I do not love to mod. I have been known to mod my car but in general, I'd like to buy the factory car and not worry about breaking into the differential or the engine also I know the MORE I MOD, the closer the car costs to the better car in the first place. For example say I got a 335i and put $8K into it that's half way to the M3. I do like to save money (ie. cheaper 335i) which is part of my debate. If they were close in price (say like the 328i to 335i price gap there is no question but this is a $16K price gap). However I do realize cars cost more (ie. Cayman to Cayman S or C6 to C6 Z06 or 911S to 911 GT3). So the price gap does make some sense to me, it's just the 335i seems so good on paper but I don't know if the M3 has many intangibles (such as the higher RPM engine, no sunroof, LSD, sportier or better interior, etc..).

Sounds like you're thinking it through. After the March 8 launch date find a dealer that has both to test drive; specs and talking only take you so far.

[rai]

thank you so much for you post. I am new to this forum, I can't expect to read 10000 threads, I am working my way into them, but really it's nice you can provide as much info as you have.

Try finding the weight or weight distribution on BMW web site or the explination of the various stereo etc..

One point, I was not asking if the M3 would be boring, more if the 335i would be boring with it's more-flat TQ which seems to be like you can drive it in any gear. I like the type of car that rewards more effort, like I drove the new Si the other day, nothing like a Bimmer but a fun little bugger, love the 8K rev engine. Really love it. I can't get enough, am keeping the S2000 anyway 9000K it's not bad. And if you have not driven (either a Si or S2000), you should try it just for the revs, and don't think the S2000 is slow like people say, once you get the revs up it's alive.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by rai

One point, I was not asking if the M3 would be boring, more if the 335i would be with it's more-flat TQ which seems to be like you can drive it in any gear. I like the type of car that rewards more effort, like I drive the new Si the other day, nothing like a Bimmer but a fun little bugger, love the 8K rev engine. Really love it. I mean I can't get enough, am keeping the S2000 anyway 9000K it's not bad. And if you have not driven one, don't think it's slow like people say, once you get the revs up it's alive.

Torque between the two is very close, and the M3 has a wider curve (85% available over 6,400 rpm) due to its extra range. Both reward spirited driving with extra performance at high revs; the M3 just takes it up a notch.

[rai]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Headliner is Not Alcantara.

sorry, it says Anthracite headliner (have no idea what that is, but I guess it's something better than the 335)

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by rai

sorry, it says Anthracite headliner (have no idea what that is, but I guess it's something better than the 335)

Just means medium/dark gray. It's a mouse fur material, not bad. Haven't noticed the 335 one.

[rai]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Sounds like you're thinking it through. After the March 8 launch date find a dealer that has both to test drive; specs and talking only take you so far.

yea, I'm conflicted.

On one hand i like to save/invest money

On the other hand I am into nice cars

try making those two things find a happy medium.

I mean my ONE TRUE CAR would be the GT3 (except it has a sunroof LOL) but that's one car I wouldn't mind having.

But it's got no backseat (even the regular 911's back seats are nothing to brag about). Also the GT3s are going for $120K.

I sometimes say look the M3 has the same/similar engine to a GT3 (I know it's not the same) but similar characteristics and it's costing half the price of a GT3 and it has a back seat.

If I was a guy who couldn't afford a M3 this would not be a debate, but I can afford just do I want that extra $16K (really $20K with tax and interest) or do I want all the extra M3 features?

The answer to that depends on which day you ask me.

[M2381]

Wow thanks for all your knowledge and information you contribute to this forum GregW!

[MrHarris]

Thanks GregW, really interesting to read. Definitely builds my confidence on the new M3. Didn't know the launch date was March 8th, I must request a test drive!

[malter2.0]

Originally Posted by rai

yea, I'm conflicted.

On one hand i like to save/invest money

On the other hand I am into nice cars

try making those two things find a happy medium.

I mean my ONE TRUE CAR would be the GT3 (except it has a sunroof LOL) but that's one car I wouldn't mind having.

But it's got no backseat (even the regular 911's back seats are nothing to brag about). Also the GT3s are going for $120K.

I sometimes say look the M3 has the same/similar engine to a GT3 (I know it's not the same) but similar characteristics and it's costing half the price of a GT3 and it has a back seat.

If I was a guy who couldn't afford a M3 this would not be a debate, but I can afford just do I want that extra $16K (really $20K with tax and interest) or do I want all the extra M3 features?

The answer to that depends on which day you ask me.

M3 is one of the few cars on the road that goes against the traditional financial advice that new cars are worst investment. Especially since it's a new model, it will depreciate slowly for first few years. It's an easy used car to sell because of its niche market.

3-series cars, no matter how powerful and wonderful will never have performance aura of M cars, let alone image and heritage. M-division is generally more focused on building a car that has superior dynamics and balance. Power, although important, is not primary concern. I'll see if I can find interview in recent carmagazine issue where chief engineer of M-division talks about emphasis on car dynamics over any other aspect of the car.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by rai

for some reason the M3 v 335 thread is closed.

I have a couple of questions, I am leaning towards one or the other but not 100%, I like to know as much as possible before I decide on one. I plan on keeping the car a long time so I am not the type to trade in after 2-3 years. So I kind of live with my mistakes..

Questions..

Anyone driven both 335i and M3 would care to comment on how / why the M3 is worth the $15K?

I like high RPM engines, I have a S2000, I drove 911 GT3 and really like the extra thousand or so of revs, however I have not driven many cars with TQ flat from low to high like the turbo 335i, I wonder does that make it boring or less involving?

You're asking something that's down to personal preference. My understanding is that 335i and M3 are easily made for different types of drivers. Some prefer the former (especially due to the Turbo), some the latter because of the high revving engine.
I was about the same question, is the M3 worth the extra money over the really good 335i and IMHO yes, it is.
Although the 335i offers an amazing drive (for example how it pulls from 1500 rpm onwards), the M3 offers much more excitement for me. Key factors is the engine which is a master piece, pulls way over 8k rpm and has a sound no BMW R6 (IMO) can match, the suspension is just better (although the 335i already was quite impressing) and the styling turns the somewhat classy E92 into an sports car (of course not side by side to an GT3, but to the 335).
So the best recommendation is what GregW already said. Go for a test drive of both 335i and M3 so you can decide if the benefits the M3 offers are it worth YOU to spend 15k more. But since you're considering the M3 instead of a GT3 I tend to claim that you'll really love the M3.

Which weighs more? M3 or 335i If the M3 weighs more why is that? Which has the better (more rearward) weight distribution?

Not much of a difference: According to German Sportauto the 335i had 51.6% front/48.4%rear, the M3 51.2% front/48.8% rear.


Best regards, south

[Hans Delbruck]

I have an S2000 and a 997 GT3 at my disposal ... in fact I drove the GT3 to work today... ...kind of ruins you for anything else...

Last night I got some seat time in a 335i. I was able to cross it off my list pretty quickly (hope it's owner isn't reading this but I think he understands!) I wasn't more than a mile into my drive when I knew it probably wasn't the car for me. It's got torque, it's quiet, it feels stout like a BMW should, but it is just not razor sharp by any means. The turn in is not crisp, the steering is not that quick, there is body roll, although it is still a very good car. It is just more a car made for the mainstream and you can feel that right away. It is not special. Honestly I'd rather have my stock Evo.

One drive and you will know. If you're a driving enthusiast, it's hard to get excited about a stock 335i after you drive it. You've got the power... but what else? Some stiffer swaybars or coilovers and better tires and now we're talking. But then that will cost $$. I expect the M3 to be hardcore out of the box and I hope I get the chance to drive one before I decide what my next BMW will be!

[RandyB]

Originally Posted by rai

I mean my ONE TRUE CAR would be the GT3 (except it has a sunroof LOL) but that's one car I wouldn't mind having.

I'm right there with you on the GT3/sunroof thing. And I would love to have a 335i daily to replace my 330i but won't buy a sunroof car. Thank goodness the M3 allows you to delete it.

Good luck with your choice but I don't think you will have a hard time justifying the extra loot for the M3 once you drive it. I'm pretty frugal myself but some things are just flat worth it.

[rai]

Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck

I have an S2000 and a 997 GT3 at my disposal ... in fact I drove the GT3 to work today... ...kind of ruins you for anything else...

Last night I got some seat time in a 335i. I was able to cross it off my list pretty quickly (hope it's owner isn't reading this but I think he understands!) I wasn't more than a mile into my drive when I knew it probably wasn't the car for me. It's got torque, it's quiet, it feels stout like a BMW should, but it is just not razor sharp by any means. The turn in is not crisp, the steering is not that quick, there is body roll, although it is still a very good car. It is just more a car made for the mainstream and you can feel that right away. It is not special. Honestly I'd rather have my stock Evo.

One drive and you will know. If you're a driving enthusiast, it's hard to get excited about a stock 335i after you drive it. You've got the power... but what else? Some stiffer swaybars or coilovers and better tires and now we're talking. But then that will cost $$. I expect the M3 to be hardcore out of the box and I hope I get the chance to drive one before I decide what my next BMW will be!

good to hear. I got to drive the GT3 at the Word Class driving event, I like the way it rewards you for revving the engine (like other cars would want to shift at 6000 RPM it's just getting started, much like the S2000 or M3 would be I suppose.

[rai]

One question, I am wondering. I may not have this correct.

The M3 stereo is worse than the 335i stereo (that's what I could read from the above). I don't suppose that's a big deal just I think that's one thing where the M3 is shortchanging me.

With the stereo if you want the better stereo it costs you the nav system plus the stereo upgrade so $4K.

Also, I want Comfort Access and I want M-control button but I do not want I-drive. SO the M3 does not offer them as standd alone option, the only way to get CA is to order the technology package.

What I want is no-nav plus CA. I'd pay the $500 for CA but I can't get it at least not according to bmw web builder. Maybe they will change that. I mean its a stand alone option on most other BMWs. Guess they want people to load up on the technology package. Which I would like, but my point is I'm alread up-grading $16K to the M3 (if I do) than that's another $5K to get the stereo, and technology package so it's really $21K more.

Still, much better than the 911 scenario which again I am not looking at because I'd prefer a normal rear seat not a deleted rear seat or a mini rear seat like the 911S.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by rai

One question, I am wondering. I may not have this correct.

The M3 stereo is worse than the 335i stereo (that's what I could read from the above). I don't suppose that's a big deal just I think that's one thing where the M3 is shortchanging me.

I assume it was to keep the base price down. Would be fine, except they don't offer Logic7 as an option like they do in most countries--that makes no sense.

With the stereo if you want the better stereo it costs you the nav system plus the stereo upgrade so $4K.

Also, I want Comfort Access and I want M-control button but I do not want I-drive. SO the M3 does not offer them as stand alone option, the only way to get CA is to order the technology package

What I want is no-nav plus CA. I'd pay the $500 for CA but I can't get it at least not according to bmw web builder. Maybe they will change that. I mean its a stand alone option on most other BMWs. Guess they want people to load up on the technology package. Which I would like, but my point is I'm alread up-grading $16K to the M3 (if I do) than that's another $5K to get the stereo, and technology package so it's really $21K more.
.

This is part of packaging that you run into on many cars--Mercedes is the same way. Don't think CA would be too easy to retrofit, either. They may offer it as a separate option Your price comparison assumes you are not adding any options to the 335, which is probably not realistic. Still, it's admittedly a fairly large step up.

Still, much better than the 911 scenario which again I am not looking at because I'd prefer a normal rear seat not a deleted rear seat or a mini rear seat like the 911S.

And the split fold down rear seats give even more flexibility.

[mkoesel]

Another thing you don't get with the base M3 vs. base 335i besides Logic 7 is DTC. The M3, without the tech package, only has DSC On/Off. DTC is a bit like MDM DSC mode on the M3 in that it disables some of the electronic nannies but not all.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck

It's got torque, it's quiet, it feels stout like a BMW should, but it is just not razor sharp by any means. The turn in is not crisp, the steering is not that quick, there is body roll, although it is still a very good car.

My impressions exactly.