Autozeitung : M3 ZCP vs Giulia Quadrifoglio

[Phatcat]

Enjoy.

[DocWeatherington]

Looks like the Alfa isn't traction limited on launch, wish this would of been manual vs manual or DCT vs Auto.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Looks like the Alfa isn't traction limited on launch, wish this would of been manual vs manual or DCT vs Auto.

The Giulia-Q in this test is fitted with R-compound tires (P-Zero Corsa with 60 treadwear). So for sure, it will have more grip at launch compared with an M3 fitted with PSS (300 treadwear).

Put similar tires on the M3 (just a PSC2 with a 180 treadwear for example) and it will be able to launch much better.

What I find even more impressive is that the M3 was able to beat the Giulia-Q around the track by a significant 1.5 second margin despite the tires

[The H is Silent]

It would be interesting to know when and where the testing was done as well. For example, a recent test in Germany on a cold track might hamper the ability to warm up the PZero Corsas. It's telling is that both cars don't come close to the advertised acceleration times or those that other publications managed to achieve. Again, it might be a condition dependent traction issue?

I too would be interested in seeing a test of "similar" transmissions and the pipedream of them running on a control tire. A bit surprising that the Giulia doesn't seem to accelerate like a 500+ hp car in this test?

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

What I find even more impressive is that the M3 was able to beat the Giulia-Q around the track by a significant 1.5 second margin despite the tires

The insane Alfa 'ring time continues to have holes poked into it. Their credibility is dwindling.

[larryn]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

What I find even more impressive is that the M3 was able to beat the Giulia-Q around the track by a significant 1.5 second margin despite the tires

Agree, but look at the 0-x times. It looks like the Giulia falls on its face after 50mph... Six speed manual versus seven speed dual clutch, so assume different gearing and responsiveness, but that is a big gap that is made up by the BMW.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The Giulia-Q in this test is fitted with R-compound tires (P-Zero Corsa with 60 treadwear). So for sure, it will have more grip at launch compared with an M3 fitted with PSS (300 treadwear).

Put similar tires on the M3 (just a PSC2 with a 180 treadwear for example) and it will be able to launch much better.

What I find even more impressive is that the M3 was able to beat the Giulia-Q around the track by a significant 1.5 second margin despite the tires

Great find

Didn't catch that about the tires, but what is also more shocking is that the M3 was able to catch up and pass by 80kph.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by The H is Silent

It's telling is that both cars don't come close to the advertised acceleration times or those that other publications managed to achieve. Again, it might be a condition dependent traction issue?

Well, the 4.4 seconds to 100km/h for the M3 is pretty consistent IMO. You need to factor that this is a European publication, so they measure 0-100km/h (0-62mph), not 0-60mph and they do not exclude a one-foot-roll-out from the timed run as the American publications do. Car & Driver recently tested a CP M3 at 4.0s 0-60mph, add ~0.2s for the one-foot-roll-out and another ~0.2s for the 60-62mph sprint and you're pretty much at 4.4 seconds. Further, the 0-160km/h (0-99.4mph) at 8.7 is comparable to the 8.6s 0-100mph from C&D (you also need to factor the 0.2s for the one-foot-roll-out here).

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Great find

Didn't catch that about the tires, but what is also more shocking is that the M3 was able to catch up and pass by 80kph.

Let's be careful with the term "catch-up" here. Those are time-to-speed numbers, not time-to-distance. On a side-by-side drag race from a dig, the Giulia will stay ahead well past 80km/h (according to the test results in the OP).

The Giulia-Q loses significant ground, a whopping 0.8 seconds, from 60-80km/h, probably due to an awkward 1-2 shift. The 6MT also handicaps the Giulia during the other upshifts, but the Giulia pulls harder than the M3 in the 140-160km/h and in the 180-200km/h brackets.

[nicknaz]

That weight... that 0-100mph time.. that track time

Not quite the 4dr ferrari the 'ring times made it out to be

[ASAP]

Of all the hype the giulia got, this is a straight bomb haha...

[larryn]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

That weight... that 0-100mph time.. that track time

Not quite the 4dr ferrari the 'ring times made it out to be

And if those R Comps are the factory delivered tires, explains more about the 'Ring times. I recall in that Guila thread, people swore up and down that they were not R Comps.

I'd love to see the times on the F80/F82 with R coumpound tires. That was very cheeky of Alfa, if so, to not clearly divulge.

[FC]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Of all the hype the giulia got, this is a straight bomb haha...

You say that but Chris Harris felt the Alfa was better and faster than an M3 GTS at the track. One guy's opinion, sure, but at least he drove both back-to-back in the proper setting and he is experienced and he generally likes BMW's.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by FC

You say that but Chris Harris felt the Alfa was better and faster than an M3 GTS at the track. One guy's opinion, sure, but at least he drove both back-to-back in the proper setting and he is experienced and he generally likes BMW's.

An M3 GTS is a generation old, so I assume you meant the M4 GTS...

For some reason, Harris did not dig the GTS. But when he reviewed the Giulia-Q, he said it wasn't quite as good as the M3 in many aspects:

[FC]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

An M3 GTS is a generation old, so I assume you meant the M4 GTS...

For some reason, Harris did not dig the GTS. But when he reviewed the Giulia-Q, he said it wasn't quite as good as the M3 in many aspects:

Sorry about the typo. I've seen all the videos and would agree with you, except the M4 GTS vs. Alfa video is a later video and he is comparing the cars back to back. That's the ultimate test.

I'm not saying the Alfa is better, but to dismiss it and saying it will bomb is wrong.

It will probably, proportionately, sell pretty well. There will be many who will want a sexy, new Alfa with a "Ferrari" engine with 500+ hp. It will be unique, aggressive, fast and will turn heads. And even if it's insignificantly less fast than an M3, it's not like it's not outrageously fast.

I'd pick an M3 myself, if only for the MT. I'm also a BMW guy. But the Alfa is a car that everyone looking for a DCT M3 must cross-shop.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by FC

Sorry about the typo. I've seen all the videos and would agree with you, except the M4 GTS vs. Alfa video is a later video and he is comparing the cars back to back. That's the ultimate test.

I'm not saying the Alfa is better, but to dismiss it and saying it will bomb is wrong.

It will probably, proportionately, sell pretty well. There will be many who will want a sexy, new Alfa with a "Ferrari" engine with 500+ hp. It will be unique, aggressive, fast and will turn heads. And even if it's insignificantly less fast than an M3, it's not like it's not outrageously fast.

I fully agree with you, the Giulia-Q cannot be dismissed from only one test. It's only one sample. As is the case with all comparos, the M3/4 will win some and the Giulia-Q will win others. We've already seen other tests where the Giulia-Q beat the M3/4 and there will be more to come.

[savage.ulm1]

somme considerations:
Q vs M3

0-40 1,2 - 1,8
0-60 2 - 2,6
0-80 3,6 - 3,4
0-100 4,7 - 4,4 (???)
0-120 6,2 - 5,6
0-140 7,7 - 7
0-160 9,2 - 8,7
0-180 11.7 -10,7
0-200 14,1 -13,2
from 0 to 60 km/h the Q seems much faster (even if manual vs DKG) than M3 and then from 60 to 80 km/h the Q needs 1.6 sec (M3 needs half time :0.8 sec) ??come'n...some turbodiesel engines are faster in this section...
from another site the real reason:

AutoZeitung had some issues with the Alfa's gearbox, especially in the first gears - it's stated in the article.

M3 is quicker because it's DKG.