Prospective buyer with a few questions

[Rahul718]

Hello all,

I spent 2 days reading the blown engine registry and the thread devoted to high mileage '08 models. The two seem to be paradoxical but I find comfort in the latter thread. I hate to beat a dead horse and I know you guys are probably sick of the rod bearing question, but I've come to the conclusion that the number of failures is >1%, despite the plethora of people who have reported failures. Is this still accurate?

I have a 2014 370z Nismo at the moment and it's been fun for the 2 years I've had it but even before I bought that car it was between that and an e92 m3. The reason I went with the Nismo was because the rod bearing issue scared me back then. Now, although still worrisome, I think I've come to accept that there's just a small chance it'll happen to me. So, my questions are:

1- Any years to stay away from? The rod bearing issues affect all years but I know it's easier to detect via oil analysis for 2008-2011 due to the material in the rod bearings. However, this doesn't help me much as it's not practical to do an oil analysis of a prospective car, wait for the results, and then decide if I should pursue it. It's a used car transaction and they happen quickly.

Which brings me to my next question...

2- Is there anything I can do while inspecting the car that can indicate a rod bearing issue? Probably not, I know, I just figured I'd ask. What can I do to maximize the chance I don't get a car with rod bearing issues? Keep in mind I'll be going through a dealer as I'm trading in my Nismo, so it's unlikely I'll have service records to reference.

3- It won't be a daily car but I'm still interested in a BMW warranty. Suppose I buy a car out of its factory warranty, can I still opt to buy a BMW warranty or has the time period passed? I'm looking for a warranty that won't give me an issue if there's engine failure and I'll do everything on my part to furnish proof of preventative maintenance.

4- Is it preferable to buy a car with a decent number of miles (40k), this way if there would have been any rod bearing issues they likely would have happened already? In other words, I'd be spared.

5- This is just a FYI... I'm not looking to preventively change out the rod bearings. It's not a money issue, I'm just uneasy about the motor being opened up.

Appreciate any feedback you guys can give me! I'm really trying to make this work out.

[Canalpine]

We need a instant thread reject tool for when any new threads are started about rod bearings. Read the other 9000 threads on this


/thread

[65fastback]

A lot of RB talk going on there!...back in october i bought a 2013 zcp e92 m3 and purchased a 5 year 100k warranty.. i don't loose any sleep at night or care if mine spins a bearing. I drive it hard at times and enjoy every mile i put on it.


I suggest if you buy a m3 also get a warranty.

[///Mlife]

If your worried just get a warranty.

[6ixSpd]

Buy the M3 in your budget.

Do the rod bearings or don't.

Get a warranty or don't.

Enjoy the best driver's car out there below $50k.

/thread.

[Locloud9]

Rahul718,
Yes, you are beating a dead horse. The statistics originally said <1%, but since then, MANY owners have done preventative rod-bearing replacements, so the statistics went out the window.
Do as others recommend, buy a warranty, and don't think about it anymore. Drive the car, and if you like it, buy it, but not without a warranty.
Good luck.

[Gripster]

Or.... Simply don't buy the car. Get something else. It seems like the potential for an RB failure will keep you awake at night which will detract from the ownership experience. You will constantly be worried about any noise you hear from the engine bay, you'll be afraid to rev it out, you'll torture yourself over what oil to run etc.

I stayed away from Porsches due to the IMS issue and held off getting one until I could afford a 2009 with a DFI engine. It would not have been enjoyable to have a car that I thought could fail without warning.

[pbonsalb]

There is nothing that should reassure you other than (1) statistics showing failures are rare, (2) changing the bearings so you can see how your motor wore the last set or (3) an extended warranty. I have seen pictures of enough bearings, read about enough wrecked motors, and seen my own bearings so that option (1) would not satisfy me. I used option (2) until my CPO warranty expired. Then I changed the rod bearings.

Since you are buying an old car with high mileage, my recommendation is to just change the rod bearings. Factor that into your purchase price. Older examples of these cars are bargain priced.

[monterey]

When I was shopping for my car, this site was the biggest turn off for me. After reading all the threads it made me paranoid just like it is doing to you. I think this car takes abuse just like any other car. If you redline the engine everyday, it's going to blow up. If you take care of your car and treat it with respect, then nothing bad should happen.

[R3dliner]

How ironic you bought a 370z with a notorious shitty clutch system worried about RB.
Went through 2 masters and upgraded to HD csc.

If you are having doubts and not willing to pay to play, the M3 is not for you my friend.
Even the STI forums don't get this much fear with there RB issues.

[dreamspeed]

Pretty much every scenario has a possibility of RB failure.

High mileage
Low mileage
Modded
Bone stock
All years
Cars that have had their RBs replaced

Lol

[cherry-m3]

Just factor in 2K to the price and have them changed.

[Rahul718]

Originally Posted by 65fastback

A lot of RB talk going on there!...back in october i bought a 2013 zcp e92 m3 and purchased a 5 year 100k warranty.. i don't loose any sleep at night or care if mine spins a bearing. I drive it hard at times and enjoy every mile i put on it.


I suggest if you buy a m3 also get a warranty.

Appreciate the input. Warranty is definitely a no brainer for this purchase. Even if the car is out of its factory warranty, can I buy an extended one through BMW?

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

Buy the M3 in your budget.

Do the rod bearings or don't.

Get a warranty or don't.

Enjoy the best driver's car out there below $50k.

/thread.

Agree on this being the best driver's car under 50k. Warranty it is.

Originally Posted by Locloud9

Rahul718,
Yes, you are beating a dead horse. The statistics originally said <1%, but since then, MANY owners have done preventative rod-bearing replacements, so the statistics went out the window.
Do as others recommend, buy a warranty, and don't think about it anymore. Drive the car, and if you like it, buy it, but not without a warranty.
Good luck.

Warranty for sure. But, I'd like the BMW warranty. Only issue is I'm not sure if that'll be an option if the car is already finished with its factory warranty.

Originally Posted by Gripster

Or.... Simply don't buy the car. Get something else. It seems like the potential for an RB failure will keep you awake at night which will detract from the ownership experience. You will constantly be worried about any noise you hear from the engine bay, you'll be afraid to rev it out, you'll torture yourself over what oil to run etc.

I stayed away from Porsches due to the IMS issue and held off getting one until I could afford a 2009 with a DFI engine. It would not have been enjoyable to have a car that I thought could fail without warning.

Simply put, I like my things to last. I realize this may not be the car to make this criteria but I'd be much more assured with a thorough warranty through a reputable company. As mentioned, I'm not sure I can get a BMW warranty if the car I buy is already out of its factory warranty, correct? Are there any proven 3rd party warranty companies that offered no hassle engine replacements here on the forum? Last thing I want is to pay $3k for a warranty and have the warranty company cut corners so that it is cost effective for them.

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

There is nothing that should reassure you other than (1) statistics showing failures are rare, (2) changing the bearings so you can see how your motor wore the last set or (3) an extended warranty. I have seen pictures of enough bearings, read about enough wrecked motors, and seen my own bearings so that option (1) would not satisfy me. I used option (2) until my CPO warranty expired. Then I changed the rod bearings.

Since you are buying an old car with high mileage, my recommendation is to just change the rod bearings. Factor that into your purchase price. Older examples of these cars are bargain priced.

I'm aiming to stay under 50k miles. I don't consider that high mileage. As mentioned, I am uneasy about a shop changing out the rod bearings due to me simply not trusting their workmanship. Is this something BMW would do? It would either be a warranty of change out the bearings. I'm much more comfortable with a warranty.

Originally Posted by monterey

When I was shopping for my car, this site was the biggest turn off for me. After reading all the threads it made me paranoid just like it is doing to you. I think this car takes abuse just like any other car. If you redline the engine everyday, it's going to blow up. If you take care of your car and treat it with respect, then nothing bad should happen.

Bingo! These issues drew me away the first time 2 years ago and I opted for a Nismo instead. Now, I'm revisiting this car purchase. Not saying I got it wrong the first time around - I really enjoy my Nismo. But, my heart was set on the M3 in the first place. I'm not one for abusing my cars. I always warm them up to temp and while I drive spirited at times, I don't abuse them. I don't do track days and I'm an overall pretty chill driver.

Originally Posted by R3dliner

How ironic you bought a 370z with a notorious shitty clutch system worried about RB.
Went through 2 masters and upgraded to HD csc.

If you are having doubts and not willing to pay to play, the M3 is not for you my friend.
Even the STI forums don't get this much fear with there RB issues.

I don't think you can compare the CSC issues to the rod bearing issues. One is a $600 fix and the other is way more than that if you toast the engine. Im having doubts but I'm willing to pay. It's either the warranty or the rob bearings, not both. More inclined to go the way of warranty though. If I can find a local shop that specializes I rod bearing swaps for the e92 m3 then it would be a more difficult decision.

Originally Posted by dreamspeed

Pretty much every scenario has a possibility of RB failure.

High mileage
Low mileage
Modded
Bone stock
All years
Cars that have had their RBs replaced

Lol

Lol pretty much what I had mentioned before. At least I'll know I couldn't have reduced my chances in any way once I get the car.

Originally Posted by cherry-m3

Just factor in 2K to the price and have them changed.

Not trying to go this route but if there's a local shop that has successfully done these with many miles post install, maybe I'll consider it. Otherwise, I'd rather opt for the warranty.


Really appreciate everyone's input. I know it's a sour topic around here so I'm happy with the responses I received.

[bkdore]

When I bought my car it had low mileage and was still under factory warranty. The cheapest BMW 12 month warranty the dealer offered me was around $5K for 12 months and the options went up to 72 months, 120,000 miles for $18,500. (Yes USD.) Prices may vary, but you should be prepared for sticker shock if you really want a BMW warranty.

[MachinesWithSouls]

I used to come on this forum for advice and general camaraderie. After all, no one needs to spend 75,000 on a new car, it was an emotional purchase.

Now, 7 years into ownership, all I see are "should I buy" and "ROD BEARING?!" posts. It's annoying. It almost takes the joy out of ownership.

Should you buy an e9X or specific X M3? I don't know. No one here does unless they go look at it with you.

As for rod bearings, I'm so done with it. Everyone from jalopnik to the F8x bros and everyone in between has something to say. Buy it and enjoy it or don't buy it and feel relieved. BUT don't buy it and drive it with a tight butt. Then, no one wins. That's my advice.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by monterey

When I was shopping for my car, this site was the biggest turn off for me. After reading all the threads it made me paranoid just like it is doing to you. I think this car takes abuse just like any other car. If you redline the engine everyday, it's going to blow up. If you take care of your car and treat it with respect, then nothing bad should happen.

If the car was not durable enough to be redlined every day, I would not want it. And I would not but a low torque high rpm motor unless I planned to use the rpm frequently. That is where the power is. I did not buy it to store in the garage or drive like an old lady.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Rahul718

Not trying to go this route but if there's a local shop that has successfully done these with many miles post install, maybe I'll consider it. Otherwise, I'd rather opt for the warranty.

There are a few shops that have done many of these. I think there is one in NJ or NY. Maybe ACM in NJ. There are also some good aftermarket warranty companies as well as some questionable ones. With searching here, you might find ones that seem to be good and that are related to larger companies and unlikely to fail.

[R3dliner]

If you have not owned a bmw since it's factory warranty period, you can only get the lowest tier(1 below gold) warranty via BMW. It's not worth it from the quote I've received.

I would not go anywhere else in the tri-state for RB repairs besides ACM in nj. They have done countless swaps. Do the RB and save a rainy day fund when other things like throttle actuators go unless you want to pay 3-5k for 3rd party warranty.

[Ab28]

Originally Posted by R3dliner

I would not go anywhere else in the tri-state for RB repairs besides ACM in nj. They have done countless swaps. Do the RB and save a rainy day fund when other things like throttle actuators go unless you want to pay 3-5k for 3rd party warranty.

My advice exactly...especially regarding ACM.

Do the RBs, call it a day. Not much else really goes wrong (besides TAs, which wont grenade the motor)

I did my RBs during the first 4 weeks I owned the car. Do you really want to go through the motions and have a motor rebuilt or find a used one?? Consider down time and the difficulties of selling a car with a rebuilt/used engine. Some people wont care, others will.

In my opinion, the extended warranties are only worth it on a car that has
1) high to very high miles... 150k+
2) unknown service history
3) current issues (electronics)

Either way, good luck and I hope you find a nice car.

[xander_g]

Buy a CPO car and don't do the bearings until the warranty runs out. Then either buy another CPO car or do the bearing lol.

[Rahul718]

Originally Posted by R3dliner

If you have not owned a bmw since it's factory warranty period, you can only get the lowest tier(1 below gold) warranty via BMW. It's not worth it from the quote I've received.

I would not go anywhere else in the tri-state for RB repairs besides ACM in nj. They have done countless swaps. Do the RB and save a rainy day fund when other things like throttle actuators go unless you want to pay 3-5k for 3rd party warranty.

Originally Posted by lat77

My advice exactly...especially regarding ACM.

Do the RBs, call it a day. Not much else really goes wrong (besides TAs, which wont grenade the motor)

I did my RBs during the first 4 weeks I owned the car. Do you really want to go through the motions and have a motor rebuilt or find a used one?? Consider down time and the difficulties of selling a car with a rebuilt/used engine. Some people wont care, others will.

In my opinion, the extended warranties are only worth it on a car that has
1) high to very high miles... 150k+
2) unknown service history
3) current issues (electronics)

Either way, good luck and I hope you find a nice car.

I just checked the reviews in ACM and I'm happy with what I see

Can I consider THEIR (opposed to other shops that may not be as good) rod bearing swap a "fix"? Once I get it done will I ever need to do it again in, for example, 40k -50k miles or more? Once I get it done I never want to worry about this again. Do the new RBs change the characteristic of the engine in any way or it's basically just a silent fix?

That said, you guys definitely made a case for doing the RBs over a warranty since not much else really goes wrong with this car. I've just never done RBs as preventative maintenance and its laughable that that's what needs to be done. But hey, if I can pay $2500 and get it over with and only have to worry about regular repairs, I'd be more than happy that route.

Thanks again. Definitely helpful feedback

[R3dliner]

Originally Posted by Rahul718

I just checked the reviews in ACM and I'm happy with what I see

Can I consider THEIR (opposed to other shops that may not be as good) rod bearing swap a "fix"? Once I get it done will I ever need to do it again in, for example, 40k -50k miles or more? Once I get it done I never want to worry about this again. Do the new RBs change the characteristic of the engine in any way or it's basically just a silent fix?

That said, you guys definitely made a case for doing the RBs over a warranty since not much else really goes wrong with this car. I've just never done RBs as preventative maintenance and its laughable that that's what needs to be done. But hey, if I can pay $2500 and get it over with and only have to worry about regular repairs, I'd be more than happy that route.

Thanks again. Definitely helpful feedback

do it once and forget about it.

Which RB to go has been beaten to death. VAC or BE. Most here are going with the BE w/ ARP bolts. ACM recommends the WPC treated ones but they do offer BE's now.

It's not a necessity and less than 1% have engine failure. Just give some people peace of mind.
btw grew up in bayside lol