M4 CS vs GTR Track Edition

[Phatcat]

Enjoy.

[nicknaz]

I can't read German but looking at the section speeds and lap times it looked like the CS was able to maintain a bit higher speeds mid corner (due to cup tires?) but gtr overpowers it in the straights.

Is that correct?

[Parabolica]

Any chance we can get a translation? Looks like a good comparison.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I can't read German but looking at the section speeds and lap times it looked like the CS was able to maintain a bit higher speeds mid corner (due to cup tires?) but gtr overpowers it in the straights.

Is that correct?

My German is as good as yours. But yeah, GTR is a lot heavier and slower around the corner. However, in the hands of your everyday amateur like most of us, we can probably drive the GTR quicker around a corner due to the confidence we get from the AWD.

[Leaveit2bevo]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

My German is as good as yours. But yeah, GTR is a lot heavier and slower around the corner. However, in the hands of your everyday amateur like most of us, we can probably drive the GTR quicker around a corner due to the confidence we get from the AWD.

According to their weights the GTR is only 160lbs heavier, R compounds are the difference maker.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by Leaveit2bevo

According to their weights the GTR is only 160lbs heavier, R compounds are the difference maker.

Maybe we are reading different figure but isn't it 1598 Kg for the CS vs 1771 Kg for the GTR?

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by Leaveit2bevo

According to their weights the GTR is only 160lbs heavier, R compounds are the difference maker.

The GTR was still much faster despite not being on R compounds like the CS. Equal that out and you're going to see the gap between them grow to ~3 seconds in favor of the GTR.

[Leaveit2bevo]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

The GTR was still much faster despite not being on R compounds like the CS. Equal that out and you're going to see the gap between them grow to ~3 seconds in favor of the GTR.

For sure I dont think anyones arguing which is the faster car, just that the tires on the CS help it look closer than it really is.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Leaveit2bevo

According to their weights the GTR is only 160lbs heavier, R compounds are the difference maker.

There is even a caption that says the GT-R is over 170kg heavier. According to the data oanel, it is 173kg heavier, which means over 381lb more...

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

The GTR was still much faster despite not being on R compounds like the CS. Equal that out and you're going to see the gap between them grow to ~3 seconds in favor of the GTR.

The Dunlops on the GT-R were specifically developed for that car and are guite sticky. For a single flying lap, they are not much slower than the PSC2. The GT-R was able to trump the PSC2 shod C7 Z06 in Motortrend's Head-2-Head.

That being said, with a 110hp advantage a 4WD, it's no surprise the GT-R is faster, it has always been a track monster. The M4 always had a fair price advantage over the GT-R. But now, with the hefty premium they are charging for the CS, the value proposition isn't as compelling.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The Dunlops on the GT-R were specifically developed for that car and are guite sticky. For a single flying lap, they are not much slower than the PSC2. The GT-R was able to trump the PSC2 shod C7 Z06 in Motortrend's Head-2-Head.

That being said, with a 110hp advantage a 4WD, it's no surprise the GT-R is faster, it has always been a track monster. The M4 always had a fair price advantage over the GT-R. But now, with the hefty premium they are charging for the CS, the value proposition isn't as compelling.

Yes, but the Dunlops are still considered an extreme summer vs a track/competition tire on the CS. Also don't forget the GTR also weighs about 400 lbs more...significantly heavier.
Also, that test was a manual z06 and really don't like comparisons unless it's Apple to apples. Also to note, that was the Nismo GTR too.

I do totally are though... the pricing on the M4 GTS and CS is simply getting outrageous given it has a hard time keeping pace with cars in the same price range and even more so cars that are cheaper. They're pricing themselves out of competition and trying to make people feel better thinking they're getting something special when it's more of the same old with a couple tweaks.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

Yes, but the Dunlops are still considered an extreme summer vs a track/competition tire on the CS. Also don't forget the GTR also weighs about 400 lbs more...significantly heavier.
Also, that test was a manual z06 and really don't like comparisons unless it's Apple to apples. Also to note, that was the Nismo GTR too.

I do totally are though... the pricing on the M4 GTS and CS is simply getting outrageous given it has a hard time keeping pace with cars in the same price range and even more so cars that are cheaper. They're pricing themselves out of competition and trying to make people feel better thinking they're getting something special when it's more of the same old with a couple tweaks.

Regardless how the tires are considered or if the Z06 was a manual, the point is that putting PSC2 on the GT-R would likely not make it much faster for a single fast lap.

[Towerworld]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Regardless how the tires are considered or if the Z06 was a manual, the point is that putting PSC2 on the GT-R would likely not make it much faster for a single fast lap.

According to motortrend though there was an alignment issue with the vehicle and after it was fixed it was .7 secounds faster than the GTR.
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...-track-retest/

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Towerworld

According to motortrend though there was an alignment issue with the vehicle and after it was fixed it was .7 secounds faster than the GTR.
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...-track-retest/

for sharing this, it was an interesting read.

Although, it seems the Z06 improvements come from more than just alignment with Chevy also re-calibrating the dampers. Interestingly, the 8AT Z06 was 0.76 seconds slower than the manual (equal to the GT-R).

But, in the end, my point still holds, the tires on the GT-R grip nearly as much as PSC2.

[TahoeM3]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

for sharing this, it was an interesting read.

Although, it seems the Z06 improvements come from more than just alignment with Chevy also re-calibrating the dampers. Interestingly, the 8AT Z06 was 0.76 seconds slower than the manual (equal to the GT-R).

But, in the end, my point still holds, the tires on the GT-R grip nearly as much as PSC2.

Nissan made some odd choices on tires, especially on the Nismo, which put it at a disadvantage on the track.

- The stock run flats are extremely heavy. They weigh almost 10lbs more per tire than a comparable non runflat. That's close to 40 lbs of unsprung weight at the worst possible location.

- They are relatively narrow. Even the Nismo only uses 255 fronts and 285 rears, same as the premium model. For a heavy front-engined car, that's pretty narrow. The Z06 uses 285s on the same size front wheels, and one of the things GTR owners frequently do is switch to wider tires. Using a 285/315 set of R888s (which fit on stock wheels) makes a huge difference and that's what they run on some of the One Lap cars that dominate the field.

- The compound is also a step behind the cups and R comps, but it's not the only problem.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

I recall the time on M4 GTS here was 1.36.8min vs 991 GT3 RS(1.35.0)(same magazine testning)

It seems there are more or less same diff vs this Nissan and BMW CS then. Have yet to read this test.
Might be different drivers Iguess, have not read this test but I would guess a M4 CS you should sit closer to GTS than this. Also when M4 GTS test here with this magazine It was god cool conditions out. Recall 10 degrees outside temp. Could M4 CS test been on a very hot day?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

I recall the time on M4 GTS here was 1.36.8min vs 991 GT3 RS(1.35.0)(same magazine testning)

It seems there are more or less same diff vs this Nissan and BMW CS then. Have yet to read this test.
Might be different drivers Iguess, have not read this test but I would guess a M4 CS you should sit closer to GTS than this. Also when M4 GTS test here with this magazine It was god cool conditions out. Recall 10 degrees outside temp. Could M4 CS test been on a very hot day?

From the pictures, it seems the track was quite damp. But hard to tell in what conditions the lap times were done.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

They usally pin It down what temp. They did when they test M4 GTS vs 991 GT3 anyway.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

They usally pin It down what temp and If dry, wet etc.. They did when they test M4 GTS vs 991 GT3 anyway.