M4 to 991.2 Carrera?

[blckz06]

Would like to hear from folks that have made the switch, or experienced both. I'm aware of a price variance, and would likely be looking at a used 991 (vs new m4).

Currently in a FBO 340i and considering these two as future candidates. Car would be a daily driver, and would not be taken to the track (already have a track car), so please keep that in mind for perspective.

Typical use case would be ~ 30 miles a day with a mix of back roads, highway and city traffic. I'm assuming both would cope reasonably well with winter driving (given snow tires). Which one would ride more comfortably - I've read conflicting opinions on this. Not too worried about storage space... more interested in driving dynamics / fun to drive factor at less than jail time speeds.

[FirstF80InSpace]

If fun factor is your only objective, then definitely go 991.2. You'll probably want the C4S version if it's going to be your winter beater as well. Wide hips are sexier too.

[blckz06]

Originally Posted by FirstF80InSpace

If fun factor is your only objective, then definitely go 991.2. You'll probably want the C4S version if it's going to be your winter beater as well. Wide hips are sexier too.

Agree on the hips, but don't think I can swing a C4S. If I was willing and able to spend that much, I would just go for a GTS.

Also, I think a C2 would be more lively while hopefully still doing fine with winters on.

[MN2///M]

I really don't get the comparison; although many do....these two cars are very different and feel very different to drive.

I looked hard at the C4S and it ultimately came down to a great combination of value, performance & utility for me in the M4.

I was only interested in the all wheel drive version, so keep that in mind.
Depending on which variant you actually get, the Porsche could be slightly quicker than a M4; but not fast enough that the driver could be the real difference. The Porsche will feel quicker, lighter and more nimble than a M4. Ride will also depend on equipment, but you have a shorter wheel base and less weight in the Porsche.

The M4 offers a lot of performance for the money, 4 real seats and a real trunk in a package that is just slightly larger.

If driving dynamics is the only consideration, then you will probably be happier with the Porsche; however, if you really like driving the 340i everyday, you might want to give the M4 more consideration.

Really comes down to you needing to take both cars out on a drive that is most representative of what you drive on a daily basis and see what you really like.

[blckz06]

Originally Posted by MN2///M

I really don't get the comparison; although many do....these two cars are very different and feel very different to drive.

I looked hard at the C4S and it ultimately came down to a great combination of value, performance & utility for me in the M4.

I was only interested in the all wheel drive version, so keep that in mind.
Depending on which variant you actually get, the Porsche could be slightly quicker than a M4; but not fast enough that the driver could be the real difference. The Porsche will feel quicker, lighter and more nimble than a M4. Ride will also depend on equipment, but you have a shorter wheel base and less weight in the Porsche.

The M4 offers a lot of performance for the money, 4 real seats and a real trunk in a package that is just slightly larger.

If driving dynamics is the only consideration, then you will probably be happier with the Porsche; however, if you really like driving the 340i everyday, you might want to give the M4 more consideration.

Really comes down to you needing to take both cars out on a drive that is most representative of what you drive on a daily basis and see what you really like.

All great points. Yes, will hopefully have a chance to arrange some test drives in early spring.

[titan7]

I will let you know for sure in about 7 wks when my wife’s M4 is built. I love the 911, it’s fast and handles like a dream. I don’t push my cars hard on public roads for obvious reasons, so I will never know the limits. I will tell you that her little m235 is not much slower, I mean it’s a 0-60 in 4.5 my C2 with pdk should hit 0-60 in 3.8. Again I don’t race them but I think the M4 ZCP will be a lot of fun. The 911 has no room in it as far as I am concerned, it might as well be a 2 seater, mine is a weekend driver, the m4 will share some DD routine with the Prius.

The 911 is a whole different experience as it should be as it’s a different class vehicle compared to the M4. The C2 also is plenty fast and has plenty of torque. Can’t wait to have the best of both world in March. Test driving the m4, it seems plenty fast, I am interested to see how the 370HP C2 compares to the 444hp M4. I know the 911 punches above it’s weight class so it should prove interesting, I think in a drag race it will be a tie, in the Mountains, 911, of course assuming same driver.

[uniqueMR]

In simple words:
Porsche 911s: weekend car.
BMW M4s: everyday car.

[blckz06]

Originally Posted by titan7

I will let you know for sure in about 7 wks when my wife’s M4 is built. I love the 911, it’s fast and handles like a dream. I don’t push my cars hard on public roads for obvious reasons, so I will never know the limits. I will tell you that her little m235 is not much slower, I mean it’s a 0-60 in 4.5 my C2 with pdk should hit 0-60 in 3.8. Again I don’t race them but I think the M4 ZCP will be a lot of fun. The 911 has no room in it as far as I am concerned, it might as well be a 2 seater, mine is a weekend driver, the m4 will share some DD routine with the Prius.

The 911 is a whole different experience as it should be as it’s a different class vehicle compared to the M4. The C2 also is plenty fast and has plenty of torque. Can’t wait to have the best of both world in March. Test driving the m4, it seems plenty fast, I am interested to see how the 370HP C2 compares to the 444hp M4. I know the 911 punches above it’s weight class so it should prove interesting, I think in a drag race it will be a tie, in the Mountains, 911, of course assuming same driver.

Good to know. I know the rear seats will be tight, but should still do ok for my kids (<5) in a pinch. We do have another car for family trips, etc.

I know that adjustable shocks are standard on this generation of carrera. Can you tell much difference between the modes? I'm curious how compliant the suspension is in its softest setting.

The other thing with C2 is, it's always just a simple tune away from GTS level of power. And I think it would yield a more natural/enjoyable driving experience without all of the trickery that comes on the higher end models (PDCC, rear wheel steering, etc) in search of lower lap times.

[quattr0]

I had the M4 for 2 years and switched to C2 manual for 1 year now.

1. Getting an used one is the way to go. There should be a few in the 80k's range. If you will get a PDK...you're missing out. Personal opinion of course. I have the piggyback installed and going 2nd to 3rd to 4th put smiles on my face every time.

2. Since the engine in the back, some folks need some time to get used to steering. I do not have issue with this adjustment given our M4 steering is worse.

3. The normal/non-sport setting handles uneven surface better than M4. Lesser bumpy.

4. I have PSE and also replaced it with SpeedTech exhaust (heard great thing about Soul Performance also). The exhaust swap is a must have IMHO. It makes the cabin sound lesser dull and very close to GT3 sound (I drove a '15 gt3 a few times also).

5. Taking tight corners and going fast in the C2 is well worth the money. I don't have any add-on/nannies with the base. I didn't dare to do that with the M4. Just afraid it's going sideways. Maybe it won't. It is just that I didn't have the confidence. In the stock form, the 2nd gear in the base could reach 70 mph. That's plenty fast for me.

6. Full leather is not needed.

7. Don't expect the Bose to sound nice so regular speakers might just do then upgrade to higher end ones. My wife Acura sounds nicer than the Bose in the 911.

7. I'm 5'7 and not sure if I need to have the 18-way seats. Went 4 hours road trip and the back felt wonderful. Didn't have to adjust anything. Maybe I need it, 18-way lol

911.2 engine seems to be strong as folks track them with more than 10k miles and no serious issue whatsoever. I do plan to mod this thing further, gt3 parts and maybe upgraded turbos. The most issue I've heard so far is the infamous coolant leak. I've done 2 dealer recalls so far.

Get a base one...you won't look back. If I could do it over again, I would get the T for sure.

[nicknaz]

OP, you should get better tires and check alignment of your m4. Setup up first then make a call before paying a lot more for a base 911

Also check out the level of firepower available from c7z06 for same price as 991.2 base

not to mention the older turbo and Gt3. I'm personally not rushing to trade in my modded 996TT for a non GT 991

[blckz06]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

OP, you should get better tires and check alignment of your m4. Setup up first then make a call before paying a lot more for a base 911

Also check out the level of firepower available from c7z06 for same price as 991.2 base

not to mention the older turbo and Gt3. I'm personally not rushing to trade in my modded 996TT for a non GT 991

Sorry, I should have been more clear in the title. I currently own a 340i, but looking for feedback from those that have gone from M4 to 991.2 C2 or experienced both, as these 2 seem to be logical next steps.

Regarding C7Z06, I already have a track-prepped C6Z06 that I track, drive on the weekends, and use for commuting in nice weather. The thing is essentially a race car.. 3,050 lbs, 570rwhp, coilovers, etc. I've test driven C7Z, and felt it didn't have enough to replace my z.

In porsche land, I would have to go to something like GT3RS to get that level of raw driving experience. Not happening, so I'm thinking of going for a fun daily instead, which C2 should have in spades.

[blckz06]

Originally Posted by quattr0

I had the M4 for 2 years and switched to C2 manual for 1 year now.

1. Getting an used one is the way to go. There should be a few in the 80k's range. If you will get a PDK...you're missing out. Personal opinion of course. I have the piggyback installed and going 2nd to 3rd to 4th put smiles on my face every time.

2. Since the engine in the back, some folks need some time to get used to steering. I do not have issue with this adjustment given our M4 steering is worse.

3. The normal/non-sport setting handles uneven surface better than M4. Lesser bumpy.

4. I have PSE and also replaced it with SpeedTech exhaust (heard great thing about Soul Performance also). The exhaust swap is a must have IMHO. It makes the cabin sound lesser dull and very close to GT3 sound (I drove a '15 gt3 a few times also).

5. Taking tight corners and going fast in the C2 is well worth the money. I don't have any add-on/nannies with the base. I didn't dare to do that with the M4. Just afraid it's going sideways. Maybe it won't. It is just that I didn't have the confidence. In the stock form, the 2nd gear in the base could reach 70 mph. That's plenty fast for me.

6. Full leather is not needed.

7. Don't expect the Bose to sound nice so regular speakers might just do then upgrade to higher end ones. My wife Acura sounds nicer than the Bose in the 911.

7. I'm 5'7 and not sure if I need to have the 18-way seats. Went 4 hours road trip and the back felt wonderful. Didn't have to adjust anything. Maybe I need it, 18-way lol

911.2 engine seems to be strong as folks track them with more than 10k miles and no serious issue whatsoever. I do plan to mod this thing further, gt3 parts and maybe upgraded turbos. The most issue I've heard so far is the infamous coolant leak. I've done 2 dealer recalls so far.

Get a base one...you won't look back. If I could do it over again, I would get the T for sure.

Wow, great info. Thanks for chiming in.

Which piggyback do you have? I was looking at Fabspeed and GIAC but given those are bench-flashes may be problematic for the warranty.

Regarding exhaust, I was planning to look for a PSE car, and pick up headers and cattless pipes (maybe high flow cats) to get the sound where I want it. Will look into the 2 you mentioned.

Yeah, agreed on the base car being the sweet spot, now that they've gone the turbo route... particularly if you're willing to tune it.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by blckz06

Sorry, I should have been more clear in the title. I currently own a 340i, but looking for feedback from those that have gone from M4 to 991.2 C2 or experienced both, as these 2 seem to be logical next steps.

Regarding C7Z06, I already have a track-prepped C6Z06 that I track, drive on the weekends, and use for commuting in nice weather. The thing is essentially a race car.. 3,050 lbs, 570rwhp, coilovers, etc. I've test driven C7Z, and felt it didn't have enough to replace my z.

In porsche land, I would have to go to something like GT3RS to get that level of raw driving experience. Not happening, so I'm thinking of going for a fun daily instead, which C2 should have in spades.

Thanks for the context

I vote for swapping f30 340 to f80 m3

C2 has a sporty body shape but will not be anywhere close to sport level of your c6z. But will have impractical body shape. Potential for "Worst of all worlds"

F80 has the straightline pace of c2 and sedan body shape for commuting excellence.

I hope to one day step up to c6z race car (have an SM now) and a modded 996TT and EV for my daily.

6TT is odd man out and might get sold. Not as good at commuting as EV and not as sporty as the race car.

[blckz06]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Thanks for the context

I vote for swapping f30 340 to f80 m3

C2 has a sporty body shape but will not be anywhere close to sport level of your c6z. But will have impractical body shape. Potential for "Worst of all worlds"

F80 has the straightline pace of c2 and sedan body shape for commuting excellence.

I hope to one day step up to c6z race car (have an SM now) and a modded 996TT and EV for my daily.

6TT is odd man out and might get sold. Not as good at commuting as EV and not as sporty as the race car.

A valid argument for f80. Although I'm somewhat conflicted on M3/M4, mainly because my modded 340 is currently at 420rwhp and ~ 430rwtq. So, in terms of pace it should be right in line with f80. Now, one can also mod f80, but seems it may yield limited results without going to a stickier tire given traction issues even at stock power level. Thus my hope that C2 could provide a more distinct/pure driving experience outside of straightline speed. I guess in the end I'll have to just drive both back to back and see how they make me feel.

Good plan on getting the z, it really may be the best value for $ out there right now. When it comes to corners, it keeps pace with 991 gt3s on slicks. Straightline speed, forget about it. 997 gt3s/c7z06s/gt350s .. forget about it^2.

[quattr0]

Originally Posted by blckz06

Wow, great info. Thanks for chiming in.

Which piggyback do you have? I was looking at Fabspeed and GIAC but given those are bench-flashes may be problematic for the warranty.

Regarding exhaust, I was planning to look for a PSE car, and pick up headers and cattless pipes (maybe high flow cats) to get the sound where I want it. Will look into the 2 you mentioned.

Yeah, agreed on the base car being the sweet spot, now that they've gone the turbo route... particularly if you're willing to tune it.

There are several different brands/re-brands for piggy but I went with DimSport. They're very well known tuning company in Europe. If you won't mind dropping 5k that will include warranty, go with TechArt. Mine was only $1,200. I figure i will mod the car further so didn't want to go with TechArt. The car just passed 4k miles lol. I did the purchase right before bench flash was about to release.

The gain on mine is pretty mild. Stock on Dynojet is 350 whp, after the piggy installed I got 38x whp. I even dynoed it twice on different dynojet. Same/close results. Max boost was never higher than 16. My 10y old n54 max boost is 20. Very conservative on the 911 which I don't mind. My shop mentioned they could modify the tune prolly just raise more boost if I want to.

Keep in mind SpeedTech exhaust, the whole system, didn't yield any gain for me based on my before/after dyno. Whereas Soul Performance claims there will be gain. I've read on different forums and buyers seem to butt dyno agree w Soul claim. I have yet seen actual buyers before/after dyno.

Soul's sport cat might yield better sound than SpeedTech's but I love SpeedTech because no drone, sounds really nice inside cabin. Soul might be a bit more aggressive. Ping me if you need the ST exhaust sound clip. I recorded mine with a few runs and park.

All I need is a nice day with windows down, empty road and let her rip through the gears with the manual...heaven on earth

BTW, don't do sunroof. I wanted a manual and it comes with sunroof so I didn't have a choice. I put her on the scale and it's around 3260. Without sunroof, I would have been at 3200 at the minimum.

My original goal, I guess first goal, was 500 hp and 2900 lbs. I ain't gonna make it to 2900 lbs for sure. Now I'm shooting for 3100 lbs. If you make the car lighter it will go fast anywhere straight or corner!

[blckz06]

Originally Posted by quattr0

There are several different brands/re-brands for piggy but I went with DimSport. They're very well known tuning company in Europe. If you won't mind dropping 5k that will include warranty, go with TechArt. Mine was only $1,200. I figure i will mod the car further so didn't want to go with TechArt. The car just passed 4k miles lol. I did the purchase right before bench flash was about to release.

The gain on mine is pretty mild. Stock on Dynojet is 350 whp, after the piggy installed I got 38x whp. I even dynoed it twice on different dynojet. Same/close results. Max boost was never higher than 16. My 10y old n54 max boost is 20. Very conservative on the 911 which I don't mind. My shop mentioned they could modify the tune prolly just raise more boost if I want to.

Keep in mind SpeedTech exhaust, the whole system, didn't yield any gain for me based on my before/after dyno. Whereas Soul Performance claims there will be gain. I've read on different forums and buyers seem to butt dyno agree w Soul claim. I have yet seen actual buyers before/after dyno.

Soul's sport cat might yield better sound than SpeedTech's but I love SpeedTech because no drone, sounds really nice inside cabin. Soul might be a bit more aggressive. Ping me if you need the ST exhaust sound clip. I recorded mine with a few runs and park.

All I need is a nice day with windows down, empty road and let her rip through the gears with the manual...heaven on earth

BTW, don't do sunroof. I wanted a manual and it comes with sunroof so I didn't have a choice. I put her on the scale and it's around 3260. Without sunroof, I would have been at 3200 at the minimum.

My original goal, I guess first goal, was 500 hp and 2900 lbs. I ain't gonna make it to 2900 lbs for sure. Now I'm shooting for 3100 lbs. If you make the car lighter it will go fast anywhere straight or corner!

Thanks for the details on the tune and exhaust. Will certainly come in handy.

Looks like you're just as anal as myself about importance of weight / weight saving mods. I shaved ~150 lbs off my C6Z06's stock weight (seats, battery, 2piece rotors, 18" square wheel set-up, full exhaust, etc). Was actually thinking of yanking the A/C, but wife said she would never ride in the car again if I do that lol. Significant benefit to lap times, but also lower consumable costs.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by blckz06

A valid argument for f80. Although I'm somewhat conflicted on M3/M4, mainly because my modded 340 is currently at 420rwhp and ~ 430rwtq. So, in terms of pace it should be right in line with f80. Now, one can also mod f80, but seems it may yield limited results without going to a stickier tire given traction issues even at stock power level. Thus my hope that C2 could provide a more distinct/pure driving experience outside of straightline speed. I guess in the end I'll have to just drive both back to back and see how they make me feel.

Good plan on getting the z, it really may be the best value for $ out there right now. When it comes to corners, it keeps pace with 991 gt3s on slicks. Straightline speed, forget about it. 997 gt3s/c7z06s/gt350s .. forget about it^2.

420whp 340 + z06 track car.. Just keep things as is?

If you want to change to Porsche go for it. And you'll mod anyway no matter which car it is, why get a turbo base 911? Get a mezger engine 997.1TT with 6mt and go for big power

[blckz06]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

420whp 340 + z06 track car.. Just keep things as is?

If you want to change to Porsche go for it. And you'll mod anyway no matter which car it is, why get a turbo base 911? Get a mezger engine 997.1TT with 6mt and go for big power

Current set-up certainly works... just trying to map out next steps

I think my mods on the future vehicle will be limited to tune/intake/exhaust. Regarding a built 997.1TT, don't think it makes good financial sense to have 2 high horsepower cars in the stable (at least for me currently). Besides, high horsepower and daily driver reliability generally do not go together - ask me how I know having gone through an engine, tranny, and a few other miscellaneous items lol.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by blckz06

Current set-up certainly works... just trying to map out next steps

I think my mods on the future vehicle will be limited to tune/intake/exhaust. Regarding a built 997.1TT, don't think it makes good financial sense to have 2 high horsepower cars in the stable (at least for me currently). Besides, high horsepower and daily driver reliability generally do not go together - ask me how I know having gone through an engine, tranny, and a few other miscellaneous items lol.

Makes perfect sense. C6z is a high power track car, 997.1TT is a high power commuter. Different missions / cars

You'll spend a lot less on 7TT than 991.2 base, and the mezger seems to be truly bulletproof. Check the forums on those cars? No issues for many years on my modded 6TT (also has mezger)

[quattr0]

Originally Posted by blckz06

Looks like you're just as anal as myself about importance of weight / weight saving mods.

LoL

Unfortunately back seats removal won't help much (10 lbs). I'm shooting for battery, front seats and CF hood next. The shop told me they have not seen any REAL weight saving on CF hood except the one from Porsche. It's 8k lol (gt3 hood). So I'm hoping to see some miracle soon from some vendors.

On the battery front, the shop I frequent and the dealership are not inclining to swap out as it might trigger CEL. I will need to revisit this in the future.

If you want big power on the 991.2, do consider C4. I almost bought the C4+manual but the dang dealership wanted 100% paid before they ship the car so I dropped it. Rumor has it that more than 500 whp, we will have problem with traction on C2. Now unless we could figure out how they do it with GT2 RS then we're golden

[BIGW0RM]

I have a PDK 17 CS2 911 and a DCT 17 F80 M3.

I love my porsche for everything it is, but as a DD, it is not practical at all. It gets old quick.

While mine is very fast, the porsche just GOES where you point it. Its not a slide sideway, or burn out type of car at all. I have WAY more fun in my M3. The Porsche is great for my weekend fun or dinner dates with the wife.

My porsche replaced my M4. My F80 M3 somewhat replaced my Porsche as my DD and I couldnt be happier.


But my Porsche is still my favorite overall. Just not for my daily.

[blckz06]

Originally Posted by BIGW0RM

I have a PDK 17 CS2 911 and a DCT 17 F80 M3.

I love my porsche for everything it is, but as a DD, it is not practical at all. It gets old quick.

While mine is very fast, the porsche just GOES where you point it. Its not a slide sideway, or burn out type of car at all. I have WAY more fun in my M3. The Porsche is great for my weekend fun or dinner dates with the wife.

My porsche replaced my M4. My F80 M3 somewhat replaced my Porsche as my DD and I couldnt be happier.


But my Porsche is still my favorite overall. Just not for my daily.

Interesting. Can you expand regarding porsche not being practical to DD? Are we talking about storage/passanger space, road noise, ground clearance, etc?

Sounds like you're saying that CS2 is so good and efficient that it almost lacks drama / entertainment factor in day to day driving situations?