M3 ZCP 6sp vs M3 CS

[adc]

My car is a 2018 ZCP stick, with the CS-everything: engine map, damper map, diff setting, power steering and ABS settings, and Euro MDM. As close to a CS stickshift as I’m going to get. I’m happy with it, and a recent track outing at VIR saw me beat up my previous best by more than 2 seconds.

This week I had the chance to drive a genuine M3 CS, and the summary is that it is indeed greater than the sum of the parts. I’m not sure if it’s an effect of the smaller, lighter wheels but the damping is miles better, much closer to the gold standards of the moment (Porsche, and megnetorheological systems in other performance cars). I mean, significantly better, and I had a perfect stretch of uneven concrete to test them back to back.

The combination of wheels, tires and suspension was very well matched, nicely done BMW.

I liked the steering a bit better, that’s certainly due to the lighter wheels. On the other hand my car with GC camber plates and -2.6 degrees of camber is noticeably more reactive at the front. Nothing you couldn’t replicate on the CS though.

The engine power was similar, but of course the CS is faster due DCT (extra gear and uninterrupted torque supply during acceleration).

And it sounds better, without the slightest doubt. I have the ASD unplugged in my car so again I could compare back to back just the mechanical sounds, and it’s different. More pure, less farty, more natural.

If BMW had offered a manual option and left the armrest in place, I’d be driving one now. But those of you driving one, you have a hell of a car.

[spool twice]

I tend to agree with my back-to-back driving too, but its nice to hear from someone who has CS-like settings/coding and still came away that the sum of parts = a more enjoyable and planted car, just more stable on the road. Even if its more in monthly payment or lease, it makes more sense to me as I'd ruin the warranty on day #1 with a base or CP to get it near CS levels of feel.

[SYT_Shadow]

The CS is really, really nice. What a great job from BMW.

[Humdizzle]

the CS has different suspension hardware than the ZCP as well, correct?

Yes the CS is better. The question is if its worth the premium over a used 2015 loaded M3 that is half the price. To me it wasn't.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

the CS has different suspension hardware than the ZCP as well, correct?

Yes the CS is better. The question is if its worth the premium over a used 2015 loaded M3 that is half the price. To me it wasn't.

It still isn't clear to me if the hardware is different, conflicting info flying around. Based on my recent test drive I'd say it is different.

New CS's are now in the $80-85k range, making them more attractive. My friend took over a lease of under $800 which makes it even more attractive.

Since I am a diehard stickshift enthusiast, to me it wasn't worth it.

[matty088]

I made the cs updates to my ZCP. I am pretty sure the edc update is actually a downtick. It may help with coming out of corners with the allowing for more weight transfer but on the net i think it feels sloppy as its much less stiff.

BMW optimized the dampers for the given hardware. I think changing the software without doing the hardware is sloppy work.

I think you should go back to stock ZCP on edc and drive them back to back. I am itching to go back. I mentioned it to alex who does a ton of coding and did my car and he told me going to stock zcp wouldnt be as good. I dont know though.

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by matty088

I made the cs updates to my ZCP. I am pretty sure the edc update is actually a downtick. It may help with coming out of corners with the allowing for more weight transfer but on the net i think it feels sloppy as its much less stiff.

BMW optimized the dampers for the given hardware. I think changing the software without doing the hardware is sloppy work.

I think you should go back to stock ZCP on edc and drive them back to back. I am itching to go back. I mentioned it to alex who does a ton of coding and did my car and he told me going to stock zcp wouldnt be as good. I dont know though.

I had an 6spd 18 M3 ZCP and M3CS simultaneously for a few months before I got rid of my ZCP.

The CS handles much better than the ZCP (stock). More responsive, better rebound, better weight transfer during hard stops, and less body roll.

If I had to choose, I'd choose the CS, especially at current prices. Much more value than the ZCP stock for stock.

Was not a fan of the 6spd tranny in the M3. Not sure if it's an isolated incident but it is not smooth at all.

[matty088]

Originally Posted by paliknight

I had an 6spd 18 M3 ZCP and M3CS simultaneously for a few months before I got rid of my ZCP.

The CS handles much better than the ZCP (stock). More responsive, better rebound, better weight transfer during hard stops, and less body roll.

If I had to choose, I'd choose the CS, especially at current prices. Much more value than the ZCP stock for stock.

Was not a fan of the 6spd tranny in the M3. Not sure if it's an isolated incident but it is not smooth at all.

i am talking cs edc flash on a zcp car

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by matty088

i am talking cs edc flash on a zcp car

I know. That's why I mentioned mine was stock.

I was just adding another datapoint since there was debate regarding the flash not performing as expected.

[stevehifi]

its hard to compare a coded/tuned zcp to a cs. Especially comparing 6 speed to dct.

my car is zcp and 6 speed and I have Alex's tuning and coding running gts+ map.

ive driven the cs and the m4 gts. here are my thoughts:

-as far as power goes, the gts+ map is much better so for power there is no advantage with the cs if you just tune your zcp

-the m3 cs uses the original non zcp springs and a non zcp front swaybar so its not going to be apples to apples. that being said I really like the CS edc and think its superior. you can always buy a set of cheap base m3 springs and front swaybar to exactly match the cs.

-the dct in the cs will be better, faster shifting and more optimized for the engine tuning. this is where you really wont be able to copy the cs hardware. I personally still like the 6 speed, its alot of fun and gearing works well with improved power band.

-the cs has lighter hood, console, wheels and some aero bits. this will surely add a better feel of weight management and high speed stability over the zcp. fortunately you can buy the items that make the most impact.

if you really want to better copy the cs you'll have the buy the following:
-763m wheels with psc2
-cs Front lip, rear diffuser, trunk spoiler
-cs steering wheel
-base m3 spring set and front swaybar

- the hood and center console are very expensive and not really a good value

That should get you pretty close and cost you around $9k.

[E90Dave]

Hmmm.

I've pushed my ZCP M3 on P4S so hard around one ramp my head hurt. No tire noise.

I can't imagine needing any more handling for the street.

[matty088]

Good post.

I seem to be in significant minority (although some agree) but on my ZCP the cs feels far too soft.

Is there any way to know for sure how the software compares? I think rebound is improved but compression is very soft. Too soft. I can feel a lot of roll in the rear.

I basically want to be able to flash back and forth on the fly in order to do a real comparison. My guess is that this isn’t too far away from a vendor. But who knows. Maybe it’s too much work. That’s why it would be great if we can find real numbers on how the two compare.

Originally Posted by stevehifi

its hard to compare a coded/tuned zcp to a cs. Especially comparing 6 speed to dct.

my car is zcp and 6 speed and I have Alex's tuning and coding running gts+ map.

ive driven the cs and the m4 gts. here are my thoughts:

-as far as power goes, the gts+ map is much better so for power there is no advantage with the cs if you just tune your zcp

-the m3 cs uses the original non zcp springs and a non zcp front swaybar so its not going to be apples to apples. that being said I really like the CS edc and think its superior. you can always buy a set of cheap base m3 springs and front swaybar to exactly match the cs.

-the dct in the cs will be better, faster shifting and more optimized for the engine tuning. this is where you really wont be able to copy the cs hardware. I personally still like the 6 speed, its alot of fun and gearing works well with improved power band.

-the cs has lighter hood, console, wheels and some aero bits. this will surely add a better feel of weight management and high speed stability over the zcp. fortunately you can buy the items that make the most impact.

if you really want to better copy the cs you'll have the buy the following:
-763m wheels with psc2
-cs Front lip, rear diffuser, trunk spoiler
-cs steering wheel
-base m3 spring set and front swaybar

- the hood and center console are very expensive and not really a good value

That should get you pretty close and cost you around $9k.

[adc]

Originally Posted by E90Dave

Hmmm.

I've pushed my ZCP M3 on P4S so hard around one ramp my head hurt. No tire noise.

I can't imagine needing any more handling for the street.

I track my car. More handling is always good. And there’s always Advil for the headache .

That said, I found the CS suspension calibration (HW, SW or both whatever it is) would be better suited even for the street, as it is more composed and better damped over rough pavement.

[adc]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

its hard to compare a coded/tuned zcp to a cs. Especially comparing 6 speed to dct.

my car is zcp and 6 speed and I have Alex's tuning and coding running gts+ map.

ive driven the cs and the m4 gts. here are my thoughts:

-as far as power goes, the gts+ map is much better so for power there is no advantage with the cs if you just tune your zcp

-the m3 cs uses the original non zcp springs and a non zcp front swaybar so its not going to be apples to apples. that being said I really like the CS edc and think its superior. you can always buy a set of cheap base m3 springs and front swaybar to exactly match the cs.

-the dct in the cs will be better, faster shifting and more optimized for the engine tuning. this is where you really wont be able to copy the cs hardware. I personally still like the 6 speed, its alot of fun and gearing works well with improved power band.

-the cs has lighter hood, console, wheels and some aero bits. this will surely add a better feel of weight management and high speed stability over the zcp. fortunately you can buy the items that make the most impact.

if you really want to better copy the cs you'll have the buy the following:
-763m wheels with psc2
-cs Front lip, rear diffuser, trunk spoiler
-cs steering wheel
-base m3 spring set and front swaybar

- the hood and center console are very expensive and not really a good value

That should get you pretty close and cost you around $9k.

Interesting post, thank you. I thought I read the ZCP springs had higher rates than the non ZCP. If that’s the case then they should work less well than the non ZCP items with the CS EDC coding. But if I read your post right, it could be exactly the opposite, and it may explain what I experienced.

I don’t care about the interior CS accoutrements, or the 10lbs saved over the front axle. The wheels might be a worthy upgrade, and I’m already on the path to do the aero bits.


Would you happen to know if the front sway bar is softer or harder than the ZCP one?

[adc]

Originally Posted by matty088

I made the cs updates to my ZCP. I am pretty sure the edc update is actually a downtick. It may help with coming out of corners with the allowing for more weight transfer but on the net i think it feels sloppy as its much less stiff.

BMW optimized the dampers for the given hardware. I think changing the software without doing the hardware is sloppy work.

I think you should go back to stock ZCP on edc and drive them back to back. I am itching to go back. I mentioned it to alex who does a ton of coding and did my car and he told me going to stock zcp wouldnt be as good. I dont know though.

Stiffness does not equate with handling, at least not for me. I personally think the ZCP EDC settings have too much rebound stiffness, in what seems to me a misguided attempt to make it feel sporty. They’re better than non ZCP ones, but I think the CS settings on ZCP hardware take it to the next level, but not to the extent felt in the actual CS car, which is what I’d want ideally.

Comes down to a matter of preference really.


And on track, I loved the way my car feels now. It rotates well, gets very good traction out of corners, and I’m using the weight transfer to get it to do what I want.


And come to think about it, there has to be an effect of wheels and PSC’s. After all, there has to be a reason they come standard on these cars, and various high end Porsche’s, Vette’s etc.

[stevehifi]

Here are the spring rate comparisons:

base 185 front/575 rear
zcp 189 front/685 rear

The CS M3 uses the base spring rates fr/rr and a softer front swaybar (non-ZCP) from the base car. The rear swaybar is ZCP.

From my tests of the car, BMW definitely increased rebound control of the shocks to make the car feel more compliant on the road as well as give it
more uniform handling. I feel like the car is now one piece instead of both
front/rear ends fighting each other for traction.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

- the hood and center console are very expensive and not really a good value

The hood is an inclusive part of the front aero. The front lip need to work in conjunction with the hood extractor to produce downforce.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

-the m3 cs uses the original non zcp springs

Originally Posted by stevehifi

The CS M3 uses the base spring rates fr/rr

I am not sure this was ever confirmed.

The only reference I saw to that effect was a single post on this forum. But so far, I don't believe anyone has been able to corroborate this with actual BMW spring part number tables.

[stevehifi]

just look up the parts on realoem.com or contact your local bmw parts they'll confirm the spring part numbers.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by stevehifi

just look up the parts on realoem.com or contact your local bmw parts they'll confirm the spring part numbers.

Springs are not listed on RealOem.com ...

[stevehifi]

ok here is the spring/swaybar info for the
M3 CS (direct from dealer) with pricing:

Swaybars:
Front – 31358011850- list 286.00

Rear – 33557853266- list 277.74

Springs:
Front – 31337847701-list 190.35

Rear – 33537847710- list 214.11

[Humdizzle]

I put the CS edc on my 2015 M3 and also just lowered it with swifts.

still need to put more miles on it as its been doing nothing but raining here. but on initial impression comfort mode does feel a bit more 'soft' and maybe 'bouncy' compared to stock. Its small though. Some may like that extra marshmallow feel for comfort.

I find the car feels best in sport though now with edc and swifts. sport + is almost too stiff for any road that's less than perfect.