07-11-2019, 04:00 AM | #1 |
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DSC ON vs MDM vs DSC OFF
This might be a really dumb question so please bare with me. But I've seen a lot of threads talking about "Drive with traction control fully off to feel the full power of the car" etc or that you don't know what the car can do unless you have the nanny control totally off.
Now please can someone clarify as I thought the DSC only kicks in when the car loses power and it cuts the power? If that is the case then aside from when you lose traction you still would have the exact same amount of power right? I guess what I am trying to ask is with the driver assists on does the car actually have less power going the wheels by default? Or does it only kick in once you lose traction at which case it cuts the power. |
07-11-2019, 06:02 AM | #2 |
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My understanding is that if the tires lose grip, the car will cut power. So theoretically you have all use of the power. However, the theory (or reality) is that you will not get all the power the car has unless the wheels are permitted to slip (more than MDM allows). No one says you'll go faster (necessarily), but the car will put out more power, even if that power ends up as rubber on the pavement.
Granted a professional or even very good driver can turn a faster lap with the DSC off as opposed to MDM or on. This is because the car's computer doesn't allow you get to the complete ragged edge (Days of Thunder term). A good driver can push the car to the absolute physical limit without losing traction (traction loss =slower lap time). DSC or MDM doesn't give you that opportunity as it intervenes quite a bit earlier than "the limit". Hope this helps. |
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07-11-2019, 07:36 AM | #3 | ||
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Therefore, as SMGCFP relates above, in order to keep the system from interfering when you are driving on the "complete ragged edge" (great term, BTW), you must turn it completely off. As he also mentions, it is advised that you possess a certain level of skill before attempting extreme driving maneuvers. However, given the high torque of the S55 engine, the reality is that the traction control component of the system can be very intrusive to the point that an "innocent" attempt to achieve maximum acceleration from a stop-light, for example, can be thwarted with DSC ON. This is why you see so many people talk about driving with it OFF. Unfortunately, even the MDM mode can be too intrusive in some situations. |
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07-11-2019, 08:12 AM | #4 | |
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For the record, I have not turned mine off because I do not possess this type of skill. Someone the other day was talking about their 1986 or 1996 Porsche and commenting that it had more "usable horsepower/torque". This car has lots of "unusable" hp/torque for a novice/average driver like me. Seriously, buy Gran Turismo for PS4 and drive the M4 with the DSC off. I can't control the car consistently. I know it's not exactly the same, but I did one of those hot laps with the instructor at an M track day and instead of watching the track I watched the driver. Their hands and feet are so quick, and it has to be reflex. There's no time to think. Driving like that is too hard. I'll stick to my day job. |
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07-11-2019, 08:26 AM | #5 | |
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I still feel that I should have needed to pass a higher level driver's license exam to buy this car. 450hp is way too attainable nowadays. I don't think current driver's license exams/laws were written with this level of power in mind to the every day driver. |
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07-11-2019, 08:56 AM | #6 |
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The main issue with setting a fastest lap time is that to get the last few tenths, the car needs some slip angle. MDM will allow a little bit but it is still intrusive. When we did the driving events for the BMW Ultimate Driver, we had to keep MDM on. While not horrible, it definitely kicked on in areas I thought it was not needed and was holding me back from setting times. But everyone had it so we had to adapt.
But definitely don't want to be playing without knowledge of car control or this car particularly. An empty wet parking lot is an excellent place to learn.
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07-11-2019, 09:10 AM | #7 | |
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Test it out on a nice weather day with some spirited street driving, nothing crazy. You'll even notice from a stop light that MDM and DSC intervenes with your driving regularly when compared to DSC off. |
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07-11-2019, 09:10 AM | #8 | ||
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07-11-2019, 09:11 AM | #9 | |
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07-11-2019, 09:33 AM | #10 | |
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The handling is the most fun part of the car, not the power. At least to me. |
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07-11-2019, 09:38 AM | #11 | |
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07-11-2019, 09:46 AM | #12 |
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Respectfully disagree. No other cars out there...sure, I'd have the courage to practice away. I'm not overwhelmed by not having the DSC off, it's that the car is RWD, and on an imperfect road, one mistake and people are hurt or dead. Now sure, I can drive my morning commute with the DSC turned off and be fine (I drive in MDM all the time), but hit an exit ramp with a sweeping turn at 85 mph...nope, not without the DSC on. Someone could've dropped oil or brake fluid all over road right before me.
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07-11-2019, 12:39 PM | #13 |
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I have yet to take MDM off. I want to find a large open area to give it a go... but such places are far and few between (and there is a significant police presence in my area).
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07-11-2019, 01:27 PM | #14 |
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What you've heard is right.
Every M car to date requires TC off for "full access." I know of no exception. Even the F90. I thought I'd give it a whirl in MDM. Lasted about 1/2 lap. The problem with BMW TC is that the threshold for intervention is way, way too low. It senses you're in trouble long before the experienced driver (especially DE driver) actually is. This is probably most apparent on corner exit. An experienced driver will be able to manage the power and begin accelerating well before the car will give it to you. I'd rather stay home than run MDM on my GTS on track. No hyperbole. It's not tenths per lap, it would be seconds. It cuts into the potential dynamics of the car to that degree. I really hope it's something BMW evolves and gets right for the upcoming gen. They're way behind in this department. My trailer park track car has a wonderful 5 stage system. I can run that in "Race" TC mode and equal lap times of fully off. Disclaimer: Don't take risks. Don't disengage TC unless you're experienced and/or in a safe environment to experiment. Autocross might be a good place to start if you're in high population, can't get space to yourself. I was lucky enough starting out to often have most of my home track to myself. I turned off TC (after learning with it on), and gradually increased pace, experimented. I was hooked inside of a day. It was like I discovered a new car.
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07-11-2019, 01:47 PM | #15 |
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mdm and dsc is complete waste of time. I mean i get it for when you exploring the limits of the car on the race track for the first couple times. But the driver should ultimately drive the car....not the car driving itself.
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07-11-2019, 02:18 PM | #16 | |
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07-12-2019, 08:00 AM | #17 |
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If the traction control is constantly intervening in normal driving situations you are probably doing something wrong. c
Speed is about smoothness and keeping the car balanced. I find it to be a great track exercise to push the car with all of the nannies on as you perfect your racing and sight lines, braking points, etc. As you get smoother the nannies will get less intrusive and you will be faster, When you get to the point that you can do consistent fast laps with little invention of the traction control you can start driving without it while keeping the smoothness you developed while driving with it on. The 'ragged edge" should be approached, carefully and systematically.
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07-12-2019, 08:22 AM | #18 | |
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07-12-2019, 08:30 AM | #19 |
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Thanks for the replies everyone!
I see the DSC light on my dash every 5mins with spirited "in town driving" Keep in mind I live in the UK and the roads are not great especially in winter. I would consider myself a semi-competent driver as I have had an M car as a daily since 2005. But I am yet to drive my F80 with everything off despite having it now almost 8 months. I just wanted to gauge how much of a difference it would make to my day to day driving if I turned everything off, going by the responses it wouldn't make much difference unless it is really kicking in for no reason at all at the moment and being more of a hindrance than a driving aid as such. |
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07-12-2019, 09:11 AM | #20 | |
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