BM3 STAGE 1 Complete

[Mracer88]

Well everyone. I just flashed my 2015 m3, with 64k on the clock, and wow wow wow. Easy felt like extra 75hp. now she flies. I highly recommend BM3. Paid for the map bundle, have dps, waiting for my charge pipes for install, then stage 2 91. going for 575whp Keep you all posted.

1 issue, i cant make it read from my phone. It did it once, but now when i connect it says no obd read. works from the laptop no troubles. im not big on the technical stuff, so maybe im doing it wrong

[Isj]

575whp on stage 2 91 octane? You might have to start using ethanol blends or e85 to achieve that.

[Mracer88]

You are 100% correct. Im just shooting for 1 step at a time. 575 is a final number, on 91 hopefully 525+. Ive seen bm3 stage 1 make 497 wheel.
So i dont think that im chasing wilds hopes and dreams.
Mods to come
DPS
charge pipes
intakes

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by Mracer88

You are 100% correct. Im just shooting for 1 step at a time. 575 is a final number, on 91 hopefully 525+. Ive seen bm3 stage 1 make 497 wheel.
So i dont think that im chasing wilds hopes and dreams.
Mods to come
DPS
charge pipes
intakes

Hmm to get 550+ on 91 you’ll probably need upgraded turbos. 91 octane sucks. Excited to see your impressions and don’t forget about some sort of crank hub fix!

[SuriM3]

Nice man! Agree that it was a night and day difference

[McBobby Jr]

Originally Posted by Mracer88

You are 100% correct. Im just shooting for 1 step at a time. 575 is a final number, on 91 hopefully 525+. Ive seen bm3 stage 1 make 497 wheel.
So i dont think that im chasing wilds hopes and dreams.
Mods to come
DPS
charge pipes
intakes

If you run full E-85 on a proper tune, you should have no problem getting to 575WHP.

[Isj]

Originally Posted by Mracer88

You are 100% correct. Im just shooting for 1 step at a time. 575 is a final number, on 91 hopefully 525+. Ive seen bm3 stage 1 make 497 wheel.
So i dont think that im chasing wilds hopes and dreams.
Mods to come
DPS
charge pipes
intakes

it's definitely not chasing wild hopes and dreams to achieve your power goal. As McBobby Jr said, with a proper E85 tune and crank hub fix you can hit that goal.

[Mracer88]

So as the power climbs, you guys fully recommend the CH fix? I thought since its only roughly 1% of cars, that id just take the risk. she has been unbelievable reliable, literally 0 issuse, with 3 full track days and 64k well driven miles on the clock. i guess ill just test dummy this and see how it goes...

[deeldoo]

Originally Posted by Mracer88

So as the power climbs, you guys fully recommend the CH fix? I thought since its only roughly 1% of cars, that id just take the risk. she has been unbelievable reliable, literally 0 issuse, with 3 full track days and 64k well driven miles on the clock. i guess ill just test dummy this and see how it goes...

Lets say 20% of the time which is ridiculously outlandish you spin the hub without the fix, lets also assume an outlandish statement where half of those times you completely nuke the engine and the other half you just require a crankhub fix and retiming.

Price of used engines from my research have been in the 8-12k range at most.

Price for the crankhubfix with or without retiming is around 3k-4k.

Then expected value of new engine = 0.1*12k = 1.2k
Then expected value of retiming + fix = 0.1*4k = 400 dollars

Total expected cost = 1.6k

So getting a 3-4k fix for 1.6k in expected losses at the most liberal assumptions is probably not the best mathematical move.

But for peace of mine it might very well be worth it. I would take my chances at a crank bolt capture plate myself for 400 dollars and call it a day.

[tomlong]

I like the NPV approach to arriving at a valuation for the feasibility of undertaking a crank hub fix.

Someone is studying or works in finance?

[FatRear08]

I’m not good at math and barely graduated high school, so I’m sure the above post makes sense. In any event, you have to ask yourself if the 4K for the crankhub fix is worth the extra piece of mind so you’re not constantly worrying about it.

[bsmf8x]

Originally Posted by Mracer88

Well everyone. I just flashed my 2015 m3, with 64k on the clock, and wow wow wow. Easy felt like extra 75hp. now she flies. I highly recommend BM3. Paid for the map bundle, have dps, waiting for my charge pipes for install, then stage 2 91. going for 575whp Keep you all posted.

1 issue, i cant make it read from my phone. It did it once, but now when i connect it says no obd read. works from the laptop no troubles. im not big on the technical stuff, so maybe im doing it wrong

There's like a 25% chance I'd tune the car because i love it stock its so much already for a daily especially when you learn how to drive and make the most out of the stock tune & setup but who knows.

Out of curiosity, how different is traction? That's my biggest fear. Do you spin from a 40-50 roll in 2nd gear? What about the 2-3 shift etc. obv traction on cuts power like crazy I'm talking ab MDM or dsc off

[Mracer88]

Im curious what is the capture bolt you mentioned...? Im not totally against the crank hub fix, I feel the stories i read are mostly heavily modded dct cars. For now ill see what i can stretch my $$$ too. I appreciate the valuation. I think its a tough gamble.

Originally Posted by deeldoo

Lets say 20% of the time which is ridiculously outlandish you spin the hub without the fix, lets also assume an outlandish statement where half of those times you completely nuke the engine and the other half you just require a crankhub fix and retiming.

Price of used engines from my research have been in the 8-12k range at most.

Price for the crankhubfix with or without retiming is around 3k-4k.

Then expected value of new engine = 0.1*12k = 1.2k
Then expected value of retiming + fix = 0.1*4k = 400 dollars

Total expected cost = 1.6k

So getting a 3-4k fix for 1.6k in expected losses at the most liberal assumptions is probably not the best mathematical move.

But for peace of mine it might very well be worth it. I would take my chances at a crank bolt capture plate myself for 400 dollars and call it a day.

[Mracer88]

So im in CA, and right now ive only had the car tuned about 36hrs and for the last 36hrs its been very hot here. i havent gotten alot of extra wheel spin yet since its warm out, the tires grip. I did notice on cold-ish tires and cooler temps, a 2nd gear roll on, got me spinning 2nd gear nice and much harder than stock.

(Side note, im a track instructor, and amateur pro driver, so to me i didnt notice an aggressive change, i was actually looking for wheel spin. I love me some oversteer.)

but as i mod it i assume the tire spin will increase. Stage 2 and dps,monday. No spin into 3rd yet. im sure with colder ambient temps, ill have more traction issues. most of the tire spin issues ive experienced come from the dct cars. i drove a stage 1 dct car, and 1-2-3 all spun way harder than my manual car. go figure. but he also had dps, my dps go on monday when i have spare time, and re flash to stg2. ill come back and write up on it.

Originally Posted by murdrdf82

There's like a 25% chance I'd tune the car because i love it stock its so much already for a daily especially when you learn how to drive and make the most out of the stock tune & setup but who knows.

Out of curiosity, how different is traction? That's my biggest fear. Do you spin from a 40-50 roll in 2nd gear? What about the 2-3 shift etc. obv traction on cuts power like crazy I'm talking ab MDM or dsc off

[deeldoo]

Originally Posted by Mracer88

Im curious what is the capture bolt you mentioned...? Im not totally against the crank hub fix, I feel the stories i read are mostly heavily modded dct cars. For now ill see what i can stretch my $$$ too. I appreciate the valuation. I think its a tough gamble.

2 methods of spinning this as far as im aware.

1. Bolt backs out spins the hub
2. Overwhelm the friction plates and spin the hub

In regards to 1:

The crank bolt capture plate sold online for 99 usd from vargas and about 300 in labor makes it impossible for the crank bolt to slowly weasle itself out and solves this problem.

Typically this type of spin from what i have searched happens on stock, tuned, or really any vehicle, sometime due to it not being torqued properly from factory and at times it is suspected to be with fast rpm shifts (kickdown) or repeated abuse. The most common type of spin.

In regards to 2:

This one you need to the full crankhub fix as you pin it and keep the whole unit together. If you are going e85 or upgraded turbos i would not feel confident with just cbc.

With this type of spin the cases seem to be isolated to very high torque output cars, overwhelming the friction discs and spinning the hub, it takes a lot of power to do this, seems to be the one most correlated to high torque numbers.

I think keeping the bolt from backing out is a major risk mitigator for a low cost but it is not the full solution, i have honestly looked up this issue for quite a while and from the reported cases most seem to occur right here, bolt found either to come loose, or for the few lucky ones it was just about to back out before they did the fix.

This is the inherent flaw in the engine design and is fixed with the capture plate. The second type of spin is not due to an engine flaw, it is due to pushing too much power on stock internals, i consider the crankhub to be a stock internal that is susceptible to spin with high horsepower. The second type of spin is purely a mistake of messing around with too much power without properly prepping the engine.

While the S55 is a durable and reliable engine it cannot make over 600 whp reliably without upgrading the crankhub as it was not designed for it.

[Mracer88]

i dont get kick down, i have a manual and im gonna look into the soultion u've suggested.. Im shooting for close to 600hp. will most likely stay 91. Im not 100% yet if ill chase that hard for 600, im just curious to experiment .
im a track guy, and have realized that there is definitely something called having too much power. I buy m3s for the handling characteristics. power was never my main focus, but i wont say that its not nice having gut twisting power. especially when my date is unexpected of my driving skills, and then the almsot 500tq she feels after dinner. my e36 track car is 275hp.
if i get closer to 600 or plan to do turbos 100% id do the ch fix.

Originally Posted by deeldoo

2 methods of spinning this as far as im aware.

1. Bolt backs out spins the hub
2. Overwhelm the friction plates and spin the hub

In regards to 1:

The crank bolt capture plate sold online for 99 usd from vargas and about 300 in labor makes it impossible for the crank bolt to slowly weasle itself out and solves this problem.

Typically this type of spin from what i have searched happens on stock, tuned, or really any vehicle, sometime due to it not being torqued properly from factory and at times it is suspected to be with fast rpm shifts (kickdown) or repeated abuse. The most common type of spin.

In regards to 2:

This one you need to the full crankhub fix as you pin it and keep the whole unit together. If you are going e85 or upgraded turbos i would not feel confident with just cbc.

With this type of spin the cases seem to be isolated to very high torque output cars, overwhelming the friction discs and spinning the hub, it takes a lot of power to do this, seems to be the one most correlated to high torque numbers.

I think keeping the bolt from backing out is a major risk mitigator for a low cost but it is not the full solution, i have honestly looked up this issue for quite a while and from the reported cases most seem to occur right here, bolt found either to come loose, or for the few lucky ones it was just about to back out before they did the fix.

This is the inherent flaw in the engine design and is fixed with the capture plate. The second type of spin is not due to an engine flaw, it is due to pushing too much power on stock internals, i consider the crankhub to be a stock internal that is susceptible to spin with high horsepower. The second type of spin is purely a mistake of messing around with too much power without properly prepping the engine.

While the S55 is a durable and reliable engine it cannot make over 600 whp reliably without upgrading the crankhub as it was not designed for it.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Mracer88

Well everyone. I just flashed my 2015 m3, with 64k on the clock, and wow wow wow. Easy felt like extra 75hp. now she flies. I highly recommend BM3. Paid for the map bundle, have dps, waiting for my charge pipes for install, then stage 2 91. going for 575whp Keep you all posted.

1 issue, i cant make it read from my phone. It did it once, but now when i connect it says no obd read. works from the laptop no troubles. im not big on the technical stuff, so maybe im doing it wrong

Nice

For that kind of power on stock turbos, you need an E85 custom map

[Mracer88]

I know that ill need a full e85 tune for get the upper 550s, i didnt mean 91 and 600hp. I meant like my ultimate goal would e 600. But as of last night, I did the VRSF DPS and a 91 stage 2 tune and shes a ripper!!!! holy cow, its un-real the change in speed and response. I look forward to running an e30 mix. Ill write up some more...

[tanzm4_]

As long as you plan on staying on an OTS BM3 map you shouldn't have to worry about CH. Unless you drive very aggressively ( dropping 2 gears in a moment and in your case money shift)

Get a CH fix once you plan on going e85 to reach the power you're looking for and to have a great safety factor. The stage 2 map is plenty for the street and even track, to put the power down better I'd suggest limiting boost in 1-2nd gear. Even if you don't do a CH fix at full e85 the worst would be a retime maybe so that's a risk, going with bigger turbos will put you at a way bigger risk of damage without a fix.

[Mracer88]

I appreciate the advise. Im no animal when it comes to abuse. Believe me i use my cars well, but never reckless. Im actually thinking of reducing some of the power from 1st gear maybe 2nd. Ill try the e30 mix and see how it goes.

Originally Posted by tanzm4_

As long as you plan on staying on an OTS BM3 map you shouldn't have to worry about CH. Unless you drive very aggressively ( dropping 2 gears in a moment and in your case money shift)

Get a CH fix once you plan on going e85 to reach the power you're looking for and to have a great safety factor. The stage 2 map is plenty for the street and even track, to put the power down better I'd suggest limiting boost in 1-2nd gear. Even if you don't do a CH fix at full e85 the worst would be a retime maybe so that's a risk, going with bigger turbos will put you at a way bigger risk of damage without a fix.

[SuriM3]

Originally Posted by Mracer88

I know that ill need a full e85 tune for get the upper 550s, i didnt mean 91 and 600hp. I meant like my ultimate goal would e 600. But as of last night, I did the VRSF DPS and a 91 stage 2 tune and shes a ripper!!!! holy cow, its un-real the change in speed and response. I look forward to running an e30 mix. Ill write up some more...

This is the same exact setup I have right now and I agree it's insane!! I don't know how these guys on E85 tunes and/or pure turbos put down power because I feel that the stage 2 is already at the limits of traction unless you're running an R-compound tire.

[Demxsr]

Originally Posted by Mracer88

I know that ill need a full e85 tune for get the upper 550s, i didnt mean 91 and 600hp. I meant like my ultimate goal would e 600. But as of last night, I did the VRSF DPS and a 91 stage 2 tune and shes a ripper!!!! holy cow, its un-real the change in speed and response. I look forward to running an e30 mix. Ill write up some more...

I have a station near me that sells e85 and was contemplating doing the e85 tune at some point. Does anything else need to be changed or added to the car to do this? Or is it just flash and go? Obviously other then the crank hub, if you want that insurance, and downpipes. Are charge pipes required for it?