Build Journal's BBK; Brembo calipers on OE rotors

[Epoustouflant]

Hey guys,

Just recently saw a video on YouTube from BuildJournal about Brembo calipers retrofit kits for E46 & E92 M3. Price is 950$ for the E9X front kit, quite the bargain.

It seems new, I reached out to suggest they get on the board to talk about the kit.

Link; https://thebuildjournal.com/shop/all...90-e92-e93-m3/

Description:
Upgrade your E90 E92 E93 M3 brakes with our 4-pot Brembo BBK retrofit kit. Featuring new Brembo Renault Mégane RS Trophy-R calipers, custom 6061-T6 aluminum caliper brackets made in the USA, stainless steel brake lines and all hardware necessary for caliper install. Rotors and brake pads not included. This is a direct bolt-on kit for the OEM 360×30 rotors.

[IMG]https://thebuildjournal.com/wp-conte...ofit-kit-1.jpg[/IMG]

[tdott]

I believe it is the same as the freaky parts kit.

[nickauger]

Si tu achète ce kit dit moi comment tu aime! Je regarde pour un bbk abordable aussi.

[Conzyo]

Good price, but freaky parts kit come with pads. This one doesn't.

[romero1990]

Does anyone remember what bracket material freaky parts used?

[statik]

Originally Posted by romero1990

Does anyone remember what bracket material freaky parts used?

aluminum brackets

[statik]

also freaky parts was about $700 shipped without pads

[s0ldats]

this really won't help much if you're tracking the car if you stick with the OE rotors, will it? i feel like the oe rotor design is part of the limiting factor on track

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by s0ldats

this really won't help much if you're tracking the car if you stick with the OE rotors, will it? i feel like the oe rotor design is part of the limiting factor on track

its 95% a rotor inefficiency problem, but people will try to convince you otherwise.

[Camnyc]

Originally Posted by tdott

I believe it is the same as the freaky parts kit.

Is the caliper the same on the evo 7/8/9 as the Renault? Im curious.

[s0ldats]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

its 95% a rotor inefficiency problem, but people will try to convince you otherwise.

i asked this directly to one of the ppl at buildjournal when they were hyping up their kit and there was no response.

for ppl after flashing a brand name brake on the street, i guess this is another option.

for actual performance, this is not it.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by s0ldats

i asked this directly to one of the ppl at buildjournal when they were hyping up their kit and there was no response.

for ppl after flashing a brand name brake on the street, i guess this is another option.

for actual performance, this is not it.

i think there has been a bit of caliper size wars over the last ten years for aesthetic appearance of performance.
really means nothing, because rotor tech is what makes the biggest difference.

then these kits come out and people want brembos for $1k. there have been too many problems with these kits you would think it would be obvious, but people aren't interested in reading to educate themselves, they just want brembos.

[LaLagun]

Originally Posted by Camnyc

Is the caliper the same on the evo 7/8/9 as the Renault? Im curious.

Nope calipers are different but using the same pads.
Renault one are radial mounted and need custom brackets when evo one standard mounted same as BMW one.

[Epoustouflant]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i think there has been a bit of caliper size wars over the last ten years for aesthetic appearance of performance.
really means nothing, because rotor tech is what makes the biggest difference.

then these kits come out and people want brembos for $1k. there have been too many problems with these kits you would think it would be obvious, but people aren't interested in reading to educate themselves, they just want brembos.

I mean, why else would I create such a thread: to educate ourselves prior to changing a vital safety component on our cars. Stop belittling us and start providing us with information (if you have some).

You say it's common knowledge our OE rotors are the culprit.

Is running an upgraded disc / pad / fluid combo on stock calipers better than upgraded calipers/ pad / fluid on stock rotors?

Can you provide background information on that?

The only thread I could find with proper information is this; BBK vs Stock (on-track performance) - data? https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1435221

The Essex guy isn't exactly clear on what is the biggest weakpoint in the OE braking system for track usage, making a case for rotors and calipers, while numerous members point to pads, fluids and lines being sufficient.

[tdott]

A kit like this does improve braking feel and stability under high-speed braking from my experience (only street driving), but being a front only kit, the rears also need some help in that department.

I have tracked my car on stock brakes with upgraded fluid and track pads. While rotors do take a beating, I didn't have a issue with brake fade, but as they heat up the car dances around under heavy braking from high speeds. Brake cooling would probably help a lot, but there isn't really any elegant solutions for that from what I have seen.

With my F8x brake setup, stability under high speed heavy braking has greatly improved, while the f80 rotors are bigger, I don't feel they make much of a difference, at-least not as noticeable to me as a fixed caliper does.

The stock brakes are more than enough for the street, but maybe I'm not beating on them hard enough as some folks, just spirited drives, I save the prolonged beating on the car for the track.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by Epoustouflant

I mean, why else would I create such a thread: to educate ourselves prior to changing a vital safety component on our cars. Stop belittling us and start providing us with information (if you have some).

You say it's common knowledge our OE rotors are the culprit.

Is running an upgraded disc / pad / fluid combo on stock calipers better than upgraded calipers/ pad / fluid on stock rotors?

Can you provide background information on that?

The only thread I could find with proper information is this; BBK vs Stock (on-track performance) - data? https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1435221

The Essex guy isn't exactly clear on what is the biggest weakpoint in the OE braking system for track usage, making a case for rotors and calipers, while numerous members point to pads, fluids and lines being sufficient.

there are quite a few threads discussing various retrofit kits. one of them was pretty generic, something like "brembo caliper on stock rotor?" it gets pretty lengthy and there is good discussion.

there seems to be no shortage of problems with these kits- calipers touching rotors, pads not making full contact with rotor face, pads not centered on rotors or pistons, and lovely variances in parts on each side of the car that are supposed to be the same.

running and upgraded pad, fluid, and rotor is better than running an upgraded caliper. undebatable.

my main points have always been this- the job of a brake system is to slow the car by converting friction into heat. if the brakes can't get rid of the heat, they fail. so lets over simplify and break down the brake system.

1. caliper- squeeze the pads into the rotor
2. pads- provide friction material
3. rotors- receive friction (heat), dissipate heat.

the simplest way of improving system efficiency is to help it dissipate heat. the caliper does not dissipate heat. quite the opposite- calipers are designed to produce the heat. in fact, you don't want heat to get into your calipers. caliper pistons are often designed with ventilation cut-outs to help reduce heat transfer from the pads into the pistons and brake fluid. take a look at an ap racing rotor and you'll clearly see the rotors have many more cooling vanes between the rotor faces. rotors do have some heat capacity, but they aren't heat sinks, they are designed to absorb and get rid of heat.

so adding a more rigid caliper with a larger pad surface is going to feel better in daily driving. i wouldn't debate that argument. however, upgrading a caliper and pad, but failing to upgrade rotors is just going to overwhelm the rotors at most tracks.

price out the cost of one of these retrofits, good pads, stainless lines, good fluid, and rotors. its not much less than a kit that addresses all of the above concerns, not just a caliper that looks cool.

if you don't want to spend the $4k on a bbk, i get it. i'd recommend quality fluid, quality pads, and pfc direct replacement rotors. you can probably do it for about $1,700.
https://pfc.parts/product/357-062-6364/

[slowdown_dan]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

its 95% a rotor inefficiency problem, but people will try to convince you otherwise.

Would this lead one to the conclusion that the PFC DD v3 rotors for OEM calipers would be money much better spent?

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by butte2butte

Would this lead one to the conclusion that the PFC DD v3 rotors for OEM calipers would be money much better spent?

That is my opinion, yes.

[statik]

fwiw, i have zero issues with the freakyparts brembo kit, I purchased it knowing it wasn’t a track upgrade as I don’t track this car. i bought it for easy pad changes, weight reduction and asthetics. i’ll be adding the pfc DD rotors to drop more weight.

[s0ldats]

Originally Posted by statik

fwiw, i have zero issues with the freakyparts brembo kit, I purchased it knowing it wasn’t a track upgrade as I don’t track this car. i bought it for easy pad changes, weight reduction and asthetics. i’ll be adding the pfc DD rotors to drop more weight.

i think this is exactly the target demographic for these kits and it's definitely a great way to get that aesthetic goal while upgrading street performance.

i'm on OEM calipers, pfc rotors + pfc pads and endless fluid. it's good enough for me at the track but i still don't push 80% on braking heavy tracks

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by statik

fwiw, i have zero issues with the freakyparts brembo kit, I purchased it knowing it wasn’t a track upgrade as I don’t track this car. i bought it for easy pad changes, weight reduction and asthetics. i’ll be adding the pfc DD rotors to drop more weight.

If you don’t track your car, why do you need easy pad changes? I bought my 08 in 2011 with 30k miles. It now has 104k and I have changed pads twice. Since several years go by between pad changes, I want to remove the calipers and clean and grease them when installing new pads.

For weight reduction, I bought lighter Apex wheels and have run only light Michelin or Continental tires.

Before I would spend $1700 on a set of fancy rotors to go with $800 Mitsubushi EVO 4 piston Brembo calipers, I would spend 2500 on a used 6 piston 380 mm BBK that would definitely improve braking. Since I’d rather spend $2500 on something that does more than just look good for my driving, I still run stock calipers and rotors.

[derbo]

Originally Posted by s0ldats

i think this is exactly the target demographic for these kits and it's definitely a great way to get that aesthetic goal while upgrading street performance.

i'm on OEM calipers, pfc rotors + pfc pads and endless fluid. it's good enough for me at the track but i still don't push 80% on braking heavy tracks

I was at PFC08 pads + brake fluid + SS Lines but those stock new rotors got way too hot. I think adding upgraded rotors from PFC, Stoptech or Girodisc would be an interim solution and one could get a ST40 kit for fair good price from buybrakes and that would be WAY more than enough for most folks. I've seen those ST40 kits new go for some amazing pricing.