brake upgrade conundrum

[911r]

Hello all,

My brakes are (seemingly) on their last legs so I'm looking to upgrade soon. My budget is around $2000+/-. I already have Bimmerworld stainless steel lines. I daily drive my car (12,500-20,000mi/yr) and plan on attending 3-4 track days per year. Looking for input on the setups I've already thought of, and perhaps other suggestions for what I can do with around $2k.

Option 1:
E9x M3 Girodisc front 2pc floating rotor kit - $1,100.00
Brake kit rear (OEM, FCP Euro) - $576.86
DS2500 Brake Pads (front & rear) - $373.90
SRF Fluid - $180.00
Brass caliper bushing kit (front & rear) - $120.00
Total = $2,381.36

Option 2:
OEM Brake Kit Front & Rear (FCP Euro) - $1,254.09
DS2500 Brake Pads (front & rear) - $373.90
SRF Fluid - $180.00
Brass caliper bushing kit (front & rear) - $120.00
Total = $1,927.99

Option 3+:
???

The obvious upside of going with both front & rear OEM rotors is that they will be eligible for free replacements via FCP Euro's warranty. The Girodic fronts will cost ~$700.00 to replace, and since the rears are OEM they can be replaced for free. Since FCP also sells DS2500 pads they can also be replaced for no cost apart from shipping.

[roastbeef]

option 1 is going to be better, but more costly than option 2. you won't be going through disks too fast with ds2500's, so it would be up to you to figure out if you want to pay $700 about every other year.

option three would be to save a little more money and getting a stoptech st40 kit. bimmerworld has a pretty good deal on them at $2,300 after their discount code that it just makes more sense next to option 1. secondary to that, you can add to it by upgrading to the st40 rear rotors when you budget for a rear kit, and i've been told a huge benefit is rotating pads (which i would love to do, but can't with my bbk). just keep in mind, you'll probably still want to add ds2500 pads for better results.
https://www.bimmerworld.com/Brakes/B...l_rotor_type=1

[Kelse92]

"Option 3" is what I have now and what I would recommend. I originally went with what you're thinking, Option 1 (with StopTech instead of Girodisc rotors) and spent more money ultimately doing what I have now that I should have probably just done in the first place.

"Option 3":
- Used Stoptech St40 or St60 Kit - $1100-1500 (this will vary, but I have seen a few used kits sell this time last year in this price range)
- Rebuild kit (New Seals and Dust boots) - approx $100
- Optional - If you want to get fancy, $200 to repaint or powder coat those calipers a color of your choice.
- FCP Euro Rear Rotors - $576.86
- SRF Fluid $180
- No need for brass caliper bushings with this setup imo

All-in: Approx $2500
I know, over budget. But still a good 3rd option.

roastbeef's rec of getting the new ST40 with the Bimmerworld BF sale coming up is also a good one. And would put your total at closer to $3,000 but would still be a solid long-term setup.

Just don't be silly like me and buy this stuff twice

[roastbeef]

another thing i forgot to mention is if you do go with that stoptech kit, slap the cheapest oem spec rotor you can find in the rear. rears last a long time, and it will probably last until you're ready to upgrade the rears.

[derbo]

Elliot,
Hit me up on IG DM. ST40 kit is well below your budget.

[911r]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

option 1 is going to be better, but more costly than option 2. you won't be going through disks too fast with ds2500's, so it would be up to you to figure out if you want to pay $700 about every other year.

option three would be to save a little more money and getting a stoptech st40 kit. bimmerworld has a pretty good deal on them at $2,300 after their discount code that it just makes more sense next to option 1. secondary to that, you can add to it by upgrading to the st40 rear rotors when you budget for a rear kit, and i've been told a huge benefit is rotating pads (which i would love to do, but can't with my bbk). just keep in mind, you'll probably still want to add ds2500 pads for better results.
https://www.bimmerworld.com/Brakes/B...l_rotor_type=1

Originally Posted by roastbeef

another thing i forgot to mention is if you do go with that stoptech kit, slap the cheapest oem spec rotor you can find in the rear. rears last a long time, and it will probably last until you're ready to upgrade the rears.

I'm leaning towards option two (full OEM rotors + ds2500s) to hold me over until I complete my suspension kinematics, bushings & spring rates .. so, basically the opposite of what you've done (brakes first, and then suspension..) I feel as though if I get the girodiscs or ST40s for that matter I'll just want to upgrade to a six piston setup down the line (AP racing or ST trophy kit). Your input is very much appreciated, from what I can tell I've made the right choice by picking ds2500 pads?

[911r]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

"Option 3" is what I have now and what I would recommend. I originally went with what you're thinking, Option 1 (with StopTech instead of Girodisc rotors) and spent more money ultimately doing what I have now that I should have probably just done in the first place.

"Option 3":
- Used Stoptech St40 or St60 Kit - $1100-1500 (this will vary, but I have seen a few used kits sell this time last year in this price range)
- Rebuild kit (New Seals and Dust boots) - approx $100
- Optional - If you want to get fancy, $200 to repaint or powder coat those calipers a color of your choice.
- FCP Euro Rear Rotors - $576.86
- SRF Fluid $180
- No need for brass caliper bushings with this setup imo

All-in: Approx $2500
I know, over budget. But still a good 3rd option.

roastbeef's rec of getting the new ST40 with the Bimmerworld BF sale coming up is also a good one. And would put your total at closer to $3,000 but would still be a solid long-term setup.

Just don't be silly like me and buy this stuff twice

Not having to purchase "big money" brakes twice is the goal haha. For that reason I've been trying to hold off getting a StopTech kit until I can snag a 6-piston kit. I've been keeping a very close eye out for one on the used market but no dice. I'll keep looking though.

[911r]

Originally Posted by derbo

Elliot,
Hit me up on IG DM. ST40 kit is well below your budget.

That's exciting--will dm now.

[roastbeef]

ds2500's will get the job done. i ran them when i started tracking and now i just run them on the street. i've used them as backups before with good results. they are good pads, just know a dedicated race pad is better.

[911r]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

ds2500's will get the job done. i ran them when i started tracking and now i just run them on the street. i've used them as backups before with good results. they are good pads, just know a dedicated race pad is better.

Definitely, they seem like they'd bridge the gap fairly well between all-out trackpads and OEM pads.

[GeorgeA]

I had around 14 hot laps around Streets of Willow (averaging 1:26 lap times, tire limited) with the DS2500 pads, SRF fluid and stock rotors. They were fine. I would recommend, but they do make little noise on the street.

[911r]

Originally Posted by GeorgeA

I had around 14 hot laps around Streets of Willow (averaging 1:26 lap times, tire limited) with the DS2500 pads, SRF fluid and stock rotors. They were fine. I would recommend, but they do make little noise on the street.

Not bad--did you feel like the setup was lacking in any way? Awesome to hear that they didn't fade to a major extent or anything like that.

[Captain Caveman]

I am in the process of developing a PROPER OE retrofit kit that has the same overall piston area as the Brembo GT kit, and uses Brembo calipers, but costs about half the price.

PM me if you would be interested.

[slowdown_dan]

Originally Posted by Captain Caveman

I am in the process of developing a PROPER OE retrofit kit that has the same overall piston area as the Brembo GT kit, and uses Brembo calipers, but costs about half the price.

PM me if you would be interested.

Would you be addressing the poor air flow of the stock rotors since those are really the weak point of the OE system, in so much as it pertains to keeping the system from fading with heavy use?

[pbonsalb]

If this is just for looks and street use, then different rotors or cutting the shields off or ducting is not necessary.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by Captain Caveman

I am in the process of developing a PROPER OE retrofit kit that has the same overall piston area as the Brembo GT kit, and uses Brembo calipers, but costs about half the price.

PM me if you would be interested.

piston area and caliper function is not the problem. the problem is the oem rotor's poor efficiency in shedding heat.

[pbonsalb]

But again, if it is for looks rather than track use, you get the look for less. And you could, the next tine you are due for rotors, upgrade to a true 2 piece that is designed for better heat dissipation.

[911r]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

But again, if it is for looks rather than track use, you get the look for less. And you could, the next tine you are due for rotors, upgrade to a true 2 piece that is designed for better heat dissipation.

Purely going for function at this point, don't really care about looks. Same could be said for the rest of my car, I'll have $10k into my suspension before I do a single cosmetic mod.

[Captain Caveman]

Originally Posted by butte2butte

Would you be addressing the poor air flow of the stock rotors since those are really the weak point of the OE system, in so much as it pertains to keeping the system from fading with heavy use?

Yes - I will be using 390mm front 2-piece floating rotors and 380mm rear. 6-pot Brembo front, 4-pot Brembo rear with a much larger pad area than stock.

M.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by Captain Caveman

I am in the process of developing a PROPER OE retrofit kit that has the same overall piston area as the Brembo GT kit, and uses Brembo calipers, but costs about half the price.

PM me if you would be interested.

No disrespect because you're very thorough in your piston sizing analysis, but repurposing Brembo calipers via custom machined brackets has already been done ad nauseam. What is the advantage here?

With the repurposed calipers, brackets, lines, and a two piece floating rotor (of similar specs to existing BBK) what would this save?

[Captain Caveman]

Originally Posted by DRLane

No disrespect because you're very thorough in your piston sizing analysis, but repurposing Brembo calipers via custom machined brackets has already been done ad nauseam. What is the advantage here?

With the repurposed calipers, brackets, lines, and a two piece floating rotor (of similar specs to existing BBK) what would this save?

Good question, let me explain. 99% of the OE retrofit kits that I have seen banded about for our cars, use easily available Brembo calipers that are not optimal for our cars in terms of piston area and they are mostly compromised in some area or other. They therefore:

- Are primarily marketed at ppl caring more about looks than performance
- Use cheap, easily available, often heavy calipers without much thought into piston areas, pedal travel/feel or master cylinder compatibility
- Use caliper designed for much thicker discs, but are marketed for stock discs
- Expect you to retain stock discs, which are a weak point (heavy, not very tolerant to abuse) and the 1st thing I'd change
- Are mostly front kits, with no attention to the rear

I want a kit that is 100% equivalent to the Brembo GT kit, with no compromise, but without the silly price tag. A caliper is a VERY simple piece of engineering, with very little to it. Brembo are just using their brand position to hike up their prices in a near monopoly position.

Through months of research, calculations and refinement, I have therefore now specced a kit that:

- Uses high spec Brembo calipers from a high end sports car
- Upgrades both the front AND the rear brakes
- Has the same piston area and F/R bias as the Brembo GT kit
- Uses larger 2-piece discs all round
- Doubles the available pad area compared to stock
- Requires no butchering/machining of the caliper body to fit
- Is HALF the price of a new Brembo GT kit with no downside or compromise

Hope that helps understand the value proposition and benefit.

[CTMike]

Would love to hear more, Captain.