Questions about upgrading the base audio system.

[808MGuy]

I'm looking into planning an audio system upgrade and just wanted to see what others have been able to accomplish. I know most of the guys on here have just done simple factory replacement stuff but I'm hoping to find other people who have gone a little beyond that.

My specific questions are:

1. How much depth is available behind the front door panel? I'm looking at a 4" that is pretty deep compared to most 4" speakers. I may even try to get a 5-1/4" in there if depth permits.

2. Has anyone had a custom enclosure built to replace the factory 8" woofers in the space under the front seat? Specifically, I'd like to see how much deeper the enclosure can be made. I'm looking into getting away from the shallow mount subs and using a more conventional 8" sub.

3. How much space is available under the trunk floor to mount an amp? There is a possibility that I will be leaving the OEM amp in place just to power the rear speaker and then use a 5 or 6 channel amp to power the 8", 4" and tweeters in the front. The Alpine PDX 5 is nice and small but might not have enough power to the 8" speakers to really make them sing. Anything else would be almost twice the size of a PDX. 2 PDX amps might also be a possibility.

[Technic]

1) 52mm max depth

2) http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...62&postcount=7

3) A PDX-5 will output some 360W RMS at 2-4 ohms in its 5th channel, more than enough for a pair of 8" underseat woofers connected in parallel.

You can use the OEM CD Changer trunk left trim to increase the size of the space above the OEM amp to allow up to 2 stacked PDX amps in a custom bracket on top of that OEM amp. 3 stacked PDX amps can be installed with some tight "magic".

Originally Posted by HIS4

I'm looking into planning an audio system upgrade and just wanted to see what others have been able to accomplish. I know most of the guys on here have just done simple factory replacement stuff but I'm hoping to find other people who have gone a little beyond that.

My specific questions are:

1. How much depth is available behind the front door panel? I'm looking at a 4" that is pretty deep compared to most 4" speakers. I may even try to get a 5-1/4" in there if depth permits.

2. Has anyone had a custom enclosure built to replace the factory 8" woofers in the space under the front seat? Specifically, I'd like to see how much deeper the enclosure can be made. I'm looking into getting away from the shallow mount subs and using a more conventional 8" sub.

3. How much space is available under the trunk floor to mount an amp? There is a possibility that I will be leaving the OEM amp in place just to power the rear speaker and then use a 5 or 6 channel amp to power the 8", 4" and tweeters in the front. The Alpine PDX 5 is nice and small but might not have enough power to the 8" speakers to really make them sing. Anything else would be almost twice the size of a PDX. 2 PDX amps might also be a possibility.

[808MGuy]

Thanks for the info. Looks like the 4" mids I planned to use will be a little too deep. They are 54mm deep. I've actually seen that e90 post on another forum and was interested in how they did that sub box. Knowing that I can stack 2 PDX amps in that space is a big help. I think that will narrow down my choice of amps. It still all depends on the 8" subs that are chosen though.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by HIS4

Thanks for the info. Looks like the 4" mids I planned to use will be a little too deep. They are 54mm deep. I've actually seen that e90 post on another forum and was interested in how they did that sub box. Knowing that I can stack 2 PDX amps in that space is a big help. I think that will narrow down my choice of amps. It still all depends on the 8" subs that are chosen though.

That's what I'm doing with my system: 2 PDX amps stacked in a custom rack behind the OEM CD Changer trunk trim.

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by Technic

That's what I'm doing with my system: 2 PDX amps stacked in a custom rack behind the OEM CD Changer trunk trim.

How's the progress? Got pics?

[Technic]

Originally Posted by HIS4

How's the progress? Got pics?

I'm still waiting for a Cleansweep unit, as I have the Premium Sound option.

[808MGuy]

Its too bad you're on the opposite end of the country from me. I'd like to see the progress of this build in person.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by HIS4

Its too bad you're on the opposite end of the country from me. I'd like to see the progress of this build in person.

I'll be following this post, basically: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68094

It is not so much a build but a conversion, as only the underseat subs are going to be replaced with the SWS-8's and the rest of the OEM 4" mids and coaxials are going to be kept as they are supposed to be aftermarket quality. A trunk sub will be next, as soon as I find one that is really stealth.

The main conversion is from the Premium Sound OEM EQ to a more personal EQ, thus the Cleansweep to normalize that OEM digital amp processing/EQ before sending the new fairly flat analog signal to a DQXS processor and to the PDX amps (4.100 and 4.150). I just can't stand the muffled sound that comes out of these so called "Premium 16 speakers system", no matter how I tune the iDrive tone and Equalizer settings.

There is no way yet to bypass my digital amp in the USA as can be done with your analog amp. So your upgrades are simpler...

[vtm3]

I have base audio and was wondering what your thoughts would be for the amps and speakers. Would it be worth it to replace the speakers with infinity kappa 42.9? Can the 26mm speakers be replaced with the 1 in kappas and again is there a difference in quality? Also, would it be better to use a pdx4 and pdx1 or do I have to use the pdx5? I plan to go with sws-8's, any suggestions on who to purchase them from? I can get the rest of the stuff at a good price.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by vtm3

I have base audio and was wondering what your thoughts would be for the amps and speakers. Would it be worth it to replace the speakers with infinity kappa 42.9? Can the 26mm speakers be replaced with the 1 in kappas and again is there a difference in quality? Also, would it be better to use a pdx4 and pdx1 or do I have to use the pdx5? I plan to go with sws-8's, any suggestions on who to purchase them from? I can get the rest of the stuff at a good price.

Those Kappa 42.9 are coaxials, so there will be no need to add/replace the OEM tweeter in the A-pillar pod as there is already a tweeter in those 42.9.

I don't think that they will sound bad at all as a direct replacement of the OEM 4" drivers (they are 2 ohms and some 48mm deep), but only as that; you will need a custom mount to install these, though. If you are looking for a much involved sound upgrade with aftermarket amps, then you should get a proper 2-way component set at least for the fronts for a better front stage, IMO.

There are no aftermarket requirements for amps, so use whatever you think you will like or work for your particular set up. The PDX amp are recommended in these forums because they are small and powerful, mostly in that order. The PDX-5 in particular is very popular for the 3 Series base OEM audio system because it can power 2 sets of 4" components and a pair of SWS-8 subs by itself extremely well.

There are other amps that will work as well or better, so it is a matter of what you are looking for and what is your budget.

[vtm3]

ok. The kappas probably do not make sense. There seems to be very few choices for speaker replacement in a 4 in component. Do you think the oem speakers would handle an amp and sub upgrade and provide a substantial sound difference or just a nominal difference?

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by vtm3

ok. The kappas probably do not make sense. There seems to be very few choices for speaker replacement in a 4 in component. Do you think the oem speakers would handle an amp and sub upgrade and provide a substantial sound difference or just a nominal difference?

Probably not. The thing with the OEM system is that any significant upgrade will consist of a total upgrade (with the exception of the HU of course). Replace the speakers (the fronts at least) and the amp and you should have a decent upgrade. The standard upgrade for the 8" woofers has been the SWS but I'm hoping we'll see something a little different soon too.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by vtm3

ok. The kappas probably do not make sense. There seems to be very few choices for speaker replacement in a 4 in component. Do you think the oem speakers would handle an amp and sub upgrade and provide a substantial sound difference or just a nominal difference?

I think that the base system would handle very well an amp and sub upgrade by just replacing the underseat subs with SWS-8, adding a 5-channel amp and keeping the 4" OEM speakers. The main choke point in all the BMW OEM sound systems in the OEM amp because if the OEM equalization doesn't get you it would be the distortion levels of the amp itself... or both.

The main advantage -from an aftermarket upgrade point of view- of the base system is that you can remove the whole OEM amp from the system and with it most of the apparent deficiencies in sound quality and not affect any other OEM system in the car. The OEM HU/iDrive analog outputs are clean, high voltage and differential, so they are high quality outputs waiting for a much better amp than the OEM. The OEM speakers are also a weak point, but they are secondary to the OEM amp so you can keep them after an amp replacement as long as the power given to them is below 50W RMS and above 200Hz of signal frequency. That is so based on their specs (the OEM amp puts out just 25W max per OEM 4" component) and counting that you can set the SWS-8 low pass to 200Hz for both protection of the OEM speakers and just because 200Hz and below seems to me that are the frequencies that the OEM enclosures are designed for and sound the best.

This is just a quick and dirty upgrade that works very well up to a certain point, as most of the time once you start realizing how nice it sounds after installing all this you would want to increase the volume more and more... then the OEM speakers will start crapping on you.

But as a quick and simple start, it can't be beat. And it also can help you compare and decide if in fact you want to upgrade those OEM speakers. Sometimes we get into the wave of replacing everything just because we assume that OEM speakers are crap, but we never get to the point of actually comparing the performance after just replacing the amp. You will not be losing anything by upgrading around those OEM 4" speakers, because if you like what you hear then that's it, you are finished. If you do not like it then you replace them after having the rest of the equipment in place. A power output of 50W RMS set is plenty IMO for most aftermarket 4" component sets (for example, the $750 Focal 100KP component set power handling is 50W RMS) , so it is not that you will need to also replace the amp.

[vtm3]

Awesome info Technic.

[vtm3]

A couple quick questions.
I can get a pdx 4 at a good price from where I work. I can also get a pdx 1.600 all for less than the retail of the pdx 5.100. So some of my thoughts are either buying the pdx 4 and using the factory amp for the factory subs and if the amp or subs are a problem, upgrading with another amp. At that point I would either ad another pdx 4 or the pdx 1.600. I "think" the additional pdx 4 would be more versatile and the pdx 1.600 would be way more than needed. Also I would be upgrading the subs at some point, I am just hoping to have more options down the road.
In the end I may just need to suck it up and buy the pdx 5, and if so have you had any experience with any on line dealers?

[Technic]

Originally Posted by vtm3

A couple quick questions.
I can get a pdx 4 at a good price from where I work. I can also get a pdx 1.600 all for less than the retail of the pdx 5.100. So some of my thoughts are either buying the pdx 4 and using the factory amp for the factory subs and if the amp or subs are a problem, upgrading with another amp. At that point I would either ad another pdx 4 or the pdx 1.600. I "think" the additional pdx 4 would be more versatile and the pdx 1.600 would be way more than needed. Also I would be upgrading the subs at some point, I am just hoping to have more options down the road.
In the end I may just need to suck it up and buy the pdx 5, and if so have you had any experience with any on line dealers?

As long as you can pay with PayPal and credit card and buy from an online dealer with some sort of warranty (be an authorized retailer or an in-house warranty), you should be good...

[vtm3]

I just found the links to pics of your install and realized you have an e90. The cd space is completely different in the e92 and I do not believe two pdxs will fit.

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by Technic

As long as you can pay with PayPal and credit card and buy from an online dealer with some sort of warranty (be an authorized retailer or an in-house warranty), you should be good...

BTW, if anyone is interested, reps from JL are hinting at some new releases in their HD line of amps (similar to the Alpine PDX) at CES in January. I hoping to see a 5 ch similar to a PDX 5 with a little more power in the sub channel. 100x4 + 500x1 would be ideal. It's been said that the SQ on the HD amps are noticably better than the PDXs. If you're not in a rush to do something, it might be worthwhile to wait and see what is unveiled at CES this year. Of course, anything shown at CES will probably not be for sale until the end of summer at earliest.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by vtm3

I just found the links to pics of your install and realized you have an e90. The cd space is completely different in the e92 and I do not believe two pdxs will fit.

You will have to buy that CD Changer trunk trim to fit those amps there... my E90 most probably came with your no-CD Changer trim.

[vtm3]

So did you buy the trim afterwards, or did you order it that way? And if you bought it afterwards, any issues putting it in?

[Technic]

Originally Posted by vtm3

So did you buy the trim afterwards, or did you order it that way? And if you bought it afterwards, any issues putting it in?

Afterwards... no installation issues. I think that there is a DIY here somewhere on this trim.

[vtm3]

Thanks, as usual you have the answer