2 potentially dumb questions...

[EricEst1978]

1.) How can I tell definitively if a vehicle I am looking at has a backup cam? It has the prem package with Nav, but doesn't say it has a backup cam, whereas another vehicle I am looking at, explicitly mentions it. Couldn't find anything when I decoded the VIN, so I'm just not sure.

2.) Is the individual audio worth it? I love listening to music in the car, so I am wondering if I should be excluding vehicles that don't have the upgraded audio, or if it's something I could retrofit later.

The vehicle has low mileage and the interior/exterior color combo I want, but it's not a comp pkg (not sure if that's a big deal) and I have some small concerns over the 2 questions above that gave me pause on pulling the trigger.

Any info would be hugely appreciated. Thanks!

[roastbeef]

1. None came with an oem backup cam.

2. Premium sound is worth it and difficult to retrofit. Retrofit would be more expensive and time consuming than holding off for the preferred spec car.

[EricEst1978]

Thanks roastbeef appreciate the response.

Can you speak to competition package piece. Obviously there's information available online but I'm looking to hear from someone with firsthand experience.

I was so pumped to finally find this vehicle so it's bittersweet to hear that the individual audio is worth waiting for, given it's really the only thing keeping me from moving forward at the moment.

Definitely don't want to have regrets later though.

Cheers.

[timothy2001]

+1 on the Premium sound, was one of my absolute requirements and it sounds great. Competition package gets you the 359 wheels which are some of the best looking OEM wheels available. Some purists scoff at the package but it was another one of my requirements. All personal taste and what's important to you. I drive with the EDC on the firmest setting almost all the time but it's nice to be able to soften up the ride even just a little.

Low mileage is a big draw IMO though, tough choices.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by EricEst1978

Thanks roastbeef appreciate the response.

Can you speak to competition package piece. Obviously there's information available online but I'm looking to hear from someone with firsthand experience.

I was so pumped to finally find this vehicle so it's bittersweet to hear that the individual audio is worth waiting for, given it's really the only thing keeping me from moving forward at the moment.

Definitely don't want to have regrets later though.

Cheers.

What do you want to know about the competition package? If you're going to put in coil overs- skip it.
Not a deal breaker since the best part about it is the m359 wheels.

[pedro2u]

at least be aware that the Competition Package was a $2500 option when new and low mileage examples selling on the major auction sites like Bringatrailer.com and CarsandBids.com typically command a premium price. There are 3 up for auction now on BringaTrailer.com

I'd expect private sale prices to also reflect higher prices as well

[chocstraw]

Originally Posted by EricEst1978

1.) How can I tell definitively if a vehicle I am looking at has a backup cam? It has the prem package with Nav, but doesn't say it has a backup cam, whereas another vehicle I am looking at, explicitly mentions it. Couldn't find anything when I decoded the VIN, so I'm just not sure.

2.) Is the individual audio worth it? I love listening to music in the car, so I am wondering if I should be excluding vehicles that don't have the upgraded audio, or if it's something I could retrofit later.

The vehicle has low mileage and the interior/exterior color combo I want, but it's not a comp pkg (not sure if that's a big deal) and I have some small concerns over the 2 questions above that gave me pause on pulling the trigger.

Any info would be hugely appreciated. Thanks!

Is the car HiFi, or "Top HiFi" (Logic 7) ?

Mine came with HiFi and a retrofitted backup camera (euro option). My 335i had Logic 7, and I found HiFi so unusable that I retrofitted individual audio. It took me about 16-20 hours of splicing, running wire, learning how to code, swapping out trim and speakers, etc to get everything working. It was very difficult. I think the center channel + rear deck speakers are really important and aftermarket amps don't have provisions for those.

The jump from Logic 7 to individual isn't big, but the jump from HiFi to L7/ind. is ~huge~.

ZCP isn't a big deal, beef is right, 359Ms are the main perk. Backup cams can be retrofitted pretty easily, and it's worth it. I find this to be a pretty difficult car to parallel park and it helps.

I can answer any questions about the retrofit and tech questions if you'd like as well. Retrofitting the individual audio ("EPS") to a logic 7 car is not difficult as the amp bracket, 20 pin connector, and MOST Bus integration are the same, where HiFi has none of these. I don't even think you have to code EPS in. EPS parts are expensive however.

HiFi is: front LR with tweeter, rear LR mids, 2 underseat subs
L7: front LR with tweeter, center channel in dash, rear LR + tweeter, LR rear deck, 2 underseat subs
EPS: front LR with tweeter, center channel in dash w/ tweeter, rear LR + tweeter, LR rear deck w/ tweeter, 2 underseat subs

EPS has much higher quality speakers (Kevlar weave, integrated tweeters with crossover) and is, IIRC, 700 something watts versus the 400 something on L7. In practice, I don't find a substantial difference.

[dannyboy017]

I am not well versed in sound upgrades but you can upgrade speakers with BavSound or a build your own kit that probably outperforms 10+ year old individual audio.

[MaximusB]

Competition package comes with different wheels, EDC and car is 10mm lower than standard M3.

- Like others have said, competition wheels is one of the best looking OEM wheels. I personally love them and is a must have.
- EDC, I like it because I can put the car in the soft setting when I'm driving downtown and around the city where the roads aren't the greatest. I can put it in sport mode to stiffen them up when I do track days. You can still get aftermarket coilovers if you're into doing track days but it is not as straight forward as non EDC model.

Can't speak about audio as I'm not huge into stereo. I'm happy as long as the speak makes noise when I turn them on. I mainly listen to AM radio to give you an idea how little stereo quality means to me haha. This is strictly personal choice though.

My suggestion - go for the lowest mileage one you can find/within your budget. All the stuff you mentioned can be done with aftermarket route.

[bake]

If you found a low mileage car with the exterior/interior color combo you want, personally I would pull the trigger on it. Mileage can't be undone, and color combo would be the most expensive to change. Comp package is easy to replicate and as others have mentioned, if premium sound is important, you can probably achieve better sound for less with some aftermarket bits installed by a professional.

[EricEst1978]

Thanks so much for all the feedback guys, sincerely appreciate it.

chocstraw the window sticker and vin decoder just say Hi-fi sound system. I can't find any reference to "Top Hifi" or "Logic 7." so I'll have to guess it's the inferior set-up.

I don't have any plans to track the car at this point, it'll just be my daily driver, which really is a misnomer as I am working from home now and will be for the foreseeable future so... recreational driver.

The mileage isn't insanely low, but 48k mi. on a 2013 seems pretty reasonable. Clean carfax with zero accidents reported and 3 previous owners.

[pedro2u]

my Window Sticker lists:

[752] Enhanced Premium Sound $1,900

and my VIN decode shows it as

S752 Individual Audio System

[SilverSlug]

I always considered the biggest perk of the ZCP package was the carbon fiber roof.

If you add coilovers or springs, defies need for ZCP springs, and the Avant Garde M359's are flow formed alloys that are 2lbs lighter than the cast aluminum OEM 359's.

[SilverSlug]

I always wished some performance company would design/make a retrofit carbon fiber roof kit with ultralight titanium mechanisms for the E93.

Can you imagine if it were possible to get an E93 lighter than an E92? (With the top down, the center of gravity would at feet level!)

[RebL]

Originally Posted by SilverSlug

I always considered the biggest perk of the ZCP package was the carbon fiber roof.

If you add coilovers or springs, defies need for ZCP springs, and the Avant Garde M359's are flow formed alloys that are 2lbs lighter than the cast aluminum OEM 359's.

zcp ≠ carbon roof

[CamasM3e93]

I have the top premium audio package and I think the sticker on it was about 2300. yes, it is nice. however, with a wireless apple carplay (or android equivalent) upgrade that can include back up camera, plus adding the Bavsound amp and speaker upgrade you can get everything you are looking for for about 2k. It opens up your options to include all cars.

[Redd]

Individual Audio is better for clarity, Logic 7 is better for bass. Depends on what you usually listen to.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by SilverSlug

I always considered the biggest perk of the ZCP package was the carbon fiber roof.

If you add coilovers or springs, defies need for ZCP springs, and the Avant Garde M359's are flow formed alloys that are 2lbs lighter than the cast aluminum OEM 359's.

the carbon roof was standard equipment on all e92 m3s unless the buyer intentionally ruined it with a sunroof.

zcp is
-m359 wheels
-slighly higher spring rate and a slightly lower ride height
-edc

[SilverSlug]

Ahh okay got it, thanks for correcting.

[Koolsilver]

Individual audio does sound really good and I'm not necessarily an audiophile or anything like that. Competition package is nice for all the reasons listed and if resale matters to you it might help later on. If I'm not mistaken competition package also came with carbon leather interior where that could still be an additional option otherwise added but not guaranteed.

Another package that I didn't originally consider when picking up my car that I am now glad I got it is extended leather. It adds an extra touch of refinement to the interior.

[roastbeef]

carbon leather was available for non-comp cars as a selectable option.

[nrubenstein]

EPS sounds *fine*. There is nothing special about it. It's the only E9x M3 stereo that sounds OK from the factory.

That said, it's only fine. The bass is nearly nonexistent (sorry, but there's no subsitute for a subwoofer), treble is bad, etc. Also, you have to mess with the EQ. Set to flat sounds like trash. People are weirdly defensive about EPS, which I just don't understand.

Hifi is a simpler starting place if you want to upgrade.