Shifting back to Park with DCT

[Redadair]

I just looked at a White e92 M3 at my local dealer. The car is equipped with the DCT, the first E92 that I have seen this way. The SA suggested that I start the car which I did. The sound of the engine is great. I noticed that the car showed P on the dash, I am assuming this means the car was in Park. I put my foot on the brake pedal and tried shifting using the center consol knob. Now I must admit this is my first time using this shift knob, but I could not figure out how to put the car back in Park.

Can anyone with the DCT explain how this is done? I ended up shifting into R and turning off the car while I kept a firm foot hold on the breaks.

Red

[Redadair]

I ran a search prior to posting this. However I now see a prior post to mine. Good thing I am not the only one who is wondering about this.

Red

[jamesisel]

[Buschy]

So did you figure it out?
It goes into park when you push the start/stop button

[MysticBlue]

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185637
It's not an automatic transmission. Don't think of it in terms of an automatic, think in terms of a manual. There is no "park" in a manual. In the DCT, they use "P" to equate to the times you shut down a manual car, put it in gear and pull the ebrake. P just means the car was in effect, put in gear for you when you shut it down. If the car is running while you are parked, you can't put it in "park", just like you can't put a manual in gear while you are parked (without holding in the clutch). Just put it in neutral, just like a manual, and apply the ebrake. Do not get hung up on the symantics of the use of the term "park". Anybody who can't understand this should be driving an automatic, which means this is not the car for you.

[Buschy]

if you put it in nuetral, it still goes back into gear (park) when you shut off the engine, so whats the point.
if you forget to set the p-brake the car will always go into park when you shut it off, so your good.
there is just no Park gear while the car is on, so in that case, just set the p-brake. car wont go anywhere.

[kenwelch]

Originally Posted by MysticBlue

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185637
It's not an automatic transmission. Don't think of it in terms of an automatic, think in terms of a manual. There is no "park" in a manual. In the DCT, they use "P" to equate to the times you shut down a manual car, put it in gear and pull the ebrake. P just means the car was in effect, put in gear for you when you shut it down. If the car is running while you are parked, you can't put it in "park", just like you can't put a manual in gear while you are parked (without holding in the clutch). Just put it in neutral, just like a manual, and apply the ebrake. Do not get hung up on the symantics of the use of the term "park". Anybody who can't understand this should be driving an automatic, which means this is not the car for you.

The M-DCT is just like an automatic transmission…….
The “park” pawl and park gear is just like those used in an automatic transmission. The pawl is engaged by an electric solenoid and released with hydraulic pressure when the engine is running. The park gear is visible in the first picture at the rear of the transmission on the output shaft. In the second picture you can see the park cable running from the shift lever area. This is the same arrangement used in most automatic transmission except the pawl is most often engaged and disengaged manually with the shift lever.

This is a link to a previous post with the clutches shown with discription. See post #9.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...04#post3529804

The M-DCT is not held in place by putting the transmission into gear like a manual transmission because the clutches used in the M-DCT cannot be engaged when the engine is not running. The M-DCT clutches are engaged (applied) with hydraulic pressure and there is only pressure when the engine is running. When the engine is shut down there is no pressure to keep the parking pawl disengaged (released) so it will move into the parking gear. The pawl is only about the size of the tip of your little finger so be sure to use the parking brake.

As a side note the M-DCT cars cannot be push started because there is no pressure to engage the clutches without the engine running.

[MysticBlue]

Yes, I know how what happens when it goes into park.
When I say don't think of it as an automatic, think of it as a manual, I'm talking about how the the driver should interact with it. Don't think of it as "park". Don't think of it as an automatic. If you do, you will wonder why you can't put it in "park" while the engine is running and you are sitting waiting for something. If you think in terms of a manual, you won't think of this as a problem or think that BMW didn't think it through or that it is a dumb design. Coming from a manual, it didn't even occur to me that it was a problem... I knew that what this DCT does to go into "park" is putting the car in the same state that we normally do with a manual, which is having something keeping the car immobile besides just the ebrake. With a manual, we put it in gear. With the DCT, it engages this pawl. In both cases, this doesn't work if the engine is running. Thus, as far as operator interaction, it is more like a manual than an automatic.

[Redadair]

I suppose you get used to the shifter after some time, but why should it need time to get used to a shifter at all. I do think that BMW is now Over engineering many items on their cars these days. The gear selectors being one, the turn signals as another. I still remember the controls in my 2002’s. They were there only for one purpose and they moved just like any other make of car. Granted the turn signals were on the Right side of the steering wheel in the 2002’s.

How many years have people been selecting these items without a second thought to how they work, both Auto and Manuals. However the Manuals have a shift pattern to let you know where reverse is. This new gear selector in the DTC is not actually moving the gears into position like a Manual selector does. At this point I am not sure what it is doing.

How do you change the shifting from the knob on the console to the paddle shifters on the wheel.

Red

[MysticBlue]

Originally Posted by Redadair

How do you change the shifting from the knob on the console to the paddle shifters on the wheel.

Red

You are making this way too hard. You don't do anything to "change" from the shift lever to the paddles. You just use the paddles whenever you want. You use the shift lever whenever you want. Nothing to change. In S mode you can use either. In D mode you can use either, and if you do, you are then in S mode. One flick of the shift lever to the right and it's back in D mode if that's what you want. I used D mode once, just to see if it worked.
I've been driving it every day for a month now. It all seems pretty much second nature.

[!Xoible]

DCT people

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Redadair

This new gear selector in the DTC is not actually moving the gears into position like a Manual selector does. At this point I am not sure what it is doing.

Wait... you're not actually sure what its doing? WTF? Why does it matter? When you drive a car with an automatic transmission, do you wonder what the car is doing when you put it in drive?

How do you change the shifting from the knob on the console to the paddle shifters on the wheel.

Wow.

Even back in the days of the 2002, there were surely people who were confused by some of the car's functions. Consider your comment about the turn signal lever being on the right side. I'll bet some people were wondering where it was. Here's an idea, pretend like its 1972 and you just brought a brand new 2002. You have a question. There is no internet. So what do you do?



You open the glove box and read the manual. Have you even tried doing that yet?

[Redadair]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Wait... you're not actually sure what its doing? WTF? Why does it matter? When you drive a car with an automatic transmission, do you wonder what the car is doing when you put it in drive?



Wow.

Even back in the days of the 2002, there were surely people who were confused by some of the car's functions. Consider your comment about the turn signal lever being on the right side. I'll bet some people were wondering where it was. Here's an idea, pretend like its 1972 and you just brought a brand new 2002. You have a question. There is no internet. So what do you do?



You open the glove box and read the manual. Have you even tried doing that yet?

Obviously you have read your owners manual cover to cover. so I'm sure you can tell us all what it says about how to put your car back into park! Right

OK, go, what does it say?

Red

[djMpower]

Originally Posted by Redadair

Obviously you have read your owners manual cover to cover. so I'm sure you can tell us all what it says about how to put your car back into park! Right

OK, go, what does it say?

Red

Probably something along the lines of...

"our superbly advanced technology allows you to have all the creature comforts of an automatic transmission, with the enthusiast's necessity for full control. Thus, at a standstill, just leave your vehicle in neutral and engage the parking brake. After you are done with your Big Mac purchase, disengage the parking brake, put the car in drive, and drive away you two-pedaled street-demon!"

You know... more or less

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Redadair

Obviously you have read your owners manual cover to cover.

Yup.

so I'm sure you can tell us all what it says about how to put your car back into park! Right

OK, go, what does it say?

Red

It says to turn off the car.

And it also says, in fine print, "You f*cking idiot".

[Redadair]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Yup.



It says to turn off the car.

And it also says, in fine print, "You f*cking idiot".

Really, it knows you then. Thats great!

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Redadair

Really, it knows you then. Thats great!

Heh heh, nah. Just read your posts again, including the OP. Were you drunk? You gotta admit, man, you do sound like an idiot.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by MysticBlue

Do not get hung up on the symantics of the use of the term "park". Anybody who can't understand this should be driving an automatic, which means this is not the car for you.

Give the guy a break, shit. It's just a process that everyone should be informed of if they've never seen something like it before. You type your words with an air of superiority.

[Redadair]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Heh heh, nah. Just read your posts again, including the OP. Were you drunk? You gotta admit, man, you do sound like an idiot.

At this point its clear to me you have no idea how your DCT works, or that it is much closer to an Automatic than a Manual Select the gears transmission. NO Manual transmission has a Park feature at all. However you’re DCT does. In fact it works pretty much the same way any Auto trans. works, meaning it will hold your car in place with the park brake off while in Park mode. Once you move the selector to N or into say first gear, you must then use the Park break to hold the car from this point on when parking.

Please refer to the post by kenwelch which has already mentioned this same thing, and for those who can’t read, somewhat like yourself it even has pictures.

The fact that you must turn your car off to activate this Park function is not at all intuitive.

By the way I also have read my owners manual for my 335i MT. Since it doesn’t have an automatic transmission I didn’t need to read that section. Even if I had chosen the auto. in my 335i. it still comes with a tried and true intuitive gear selector, including Park.

Have a good day Richard Cranium.

Red

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Redadair

At this point its clear to me you have no idea how your DCT works

Realistically, we both know that isn't true, and you can discover that quickly by reading through my past posts on the forum. However, if you need to tell yourself that to sleep better at night or whatever, that's fine. Just one thing though, you're gonna have your work cut out for you. I've made dozens of posts about the M-DCT transmission on this forum, so there's a lot more correcting to be done for you. Go ahead - go set me straight. And have fun.

Oh and cheers.

[watrob]

S**t, I thought the + & - paddles on the steering wheel was for the calculator in iDrive and adding & substracting contacts in the phone book!

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by watrob

S**t, I thought the + & - paddles on the steering wheel was for the calculator in iDrive and adding & substracting contacts in the phone book!

Nice watrob