Turbo M cars, No High Rev's ??? who said?

[chicagobimmerboy]

While I am not too happy about BMW's last few decisions, car cancellations nad now the loss of NA M engines I have one bit of solace.

10 years ago Nissan made the R34 Skyline GT-R with an 8000 RPM 2.6L
and Subaru's current STi (in JDM spec) also hits 8000 RPM.

So who said the turbo M cars couldnt do it?
as long as the rest of the M philosiphy has remained untouched in the next cars I really dont think we'll miss too much.

Who's with me???

[RRGOO7]

I dont want an M car to be a 2.6L rice box

[GreenPlease]

High rev+ turbo= very high specific power. The problem you run into is low end response.

One way around that is a variable geometry turbocharger (VGT, ala 997 Turbo) but they are very expensive as they have to be made from ceramics to handle the high EGTs found in a gasoline ICE.

Another option, still, is sequential turbocharging ala 335d.

The best option, IMO, is hybridization. Attach a 30hp starter/motor to the crank (all accessories off) and a 1.5kW/h li-ion battery pack and you've solved any issues with low end response.

If you really wanted a tour de force, BMW would go with this:

Aluminum block Inline 4
Air impulse valve (ala Mahle) on each cylinder (throttles the engine with virtually no losses, high rev friendly unlike VANOS)
DOHC
Direct Injection
8k rpm
Dual sequential turbocharging
Hybridization (described above)

[Blake]

Originally Posted by GreenPlease

High rev+ turbo= very high specific power. The problem you run into is low end response.

One way around that is a variable geometry turbocharger (VGT, ala 997 Turbo) but they are very expensive as they have to be made from ceramics to handle the high EGTs found in a gasoline ICE.

Another option, still, is sequential turbocharging ala 335d.

The best option, IMO, is hybridization. Attach a 30hp starter/motor to the crank (all accessories off) and a 1.5kW/h li-ion battery pack and you've solved any issues with low end response.

If you really wanted a tour de force, BMW would go with this:

Aluminum block Inline 4
Air impulse valve (ala Mahle) on each cylinder (throttles the engine with virtually no losses, high rev friendly unlike VANOS)
DOHC
Direct Injection
8k rpm
Dual sequential turbocharging
Hybridization (described above)

you're missing the point, bmw M's haven't been about turbos and hybridization (fgsfds), it's about raw power. most of us (current owners) opt for high-revving naturally aspirated engines over turbos...it's why we don't drive 335's. i'm sure it's going to be insanely fast, but it's just not right with what the M division has been all about. it won't ever be the same as these wonderful NA engines that are currently in these cars.

[07Z4Mski]

A turbo charged diesel would have low throttle response.

[Bimmer Nerd]

Originally Posted by Blake

you're missing the point, bmw M's haven't been about turbos and hybridization (fgsfds), it's about raw power. most of us (current owners) opt for high-revving naturally aspirated engines over turbos...it's why we don't drive 335's. i'm sure it's going to be insanely fast, but it's just not right with what the M division has been all about. it won't ever be the same as these wonderful NA engines that are currently in these cars.

although, i am not a M3 owner, i do agree with you 100% but, i am sure we will get over that feeling of not liking turbos in an M3, i mean we got over the ugly taillights of 09 3 series right ? ( or at first we thought so) now they look amazing, i don't know if i will get over how ugly 2009 7 series is but, i think time will come and time will tell if i do so or not. As long as bmw will stay enthusiasts car, i don't have a problem.

[rzm3]

I think the point the OP was trying to make is that although future M cars will have turbos, no one from the M management has said that they are abandoning the high-rev concept. Many people here are assuming that the high-rev concept will be dropped due to turbos.

He gave examples of other turbo'd cars with high rev limit, suggesting that M can do it too -- turbo'd engines with high rev limit and NA-like response.

[attbimmer]

I'm not worried. Things change. That's life. Up until now I've liked each new M3 enough to buy one. I doubt BMW will disappoint in the future, but if for some reason I don't like what they have to offer I'll just keep my current M3s or buy something else.

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

BMW has and always will be about performance. I doubt that the ///M division will stray away from high revving engines, with our without turbo's.

[duk]

the only thing i dont like about the new M5 engine is it is based on the current 4.4 liter V8. It should at least have a specifically designed M turbo'd engine.

[Sticky]

Originally Posted by duk

the only thing i dont like about the new M5 engine is it is based on the current 4.4 liter V8. It should at least have a specifically designed M turbo'd engine.

You don't know how it will be changed. The S54 is an inline six, what does it have in common with the other BMW inline sixes? Fact is, we just don't know what they are going to do exactly yet.

[Blake]

Originally Posted by godora

although, i am not a M3 owner, i do agree with you 100% but, i am sure we will get over that feeling of not liking turbos in an M3, i mean we got over the ugly taillights of 09 3 series right ? ( or at first we thought so) now they look amazing, i don't know if i will get over how ugly 2009 7 series is but, i think time will come and time will tell if i do so or not. As long as bmw will stay enthusiasts car, i don't have a problem.

taillights are taillights. this is changing the entire dynamics of a car that's worked perfectly (and i mean near flawlessly) for so many years. i always say if it isn't broke, don't fix it. anything to do with an M is not about fuel economy, it's about raw power. from what i've read, a lot of this move is all about fuel economy and developing amble power at lower consumption. sorry, i don't really care. if i did, i would be driving a prius. i like the raw performance of my car and i hate to see it go by the wayside over politics. turbos = more problems to deal with. i can picture a thread in the future that is titled something like "my new 201? m3 is overheating on the track". that doesn't make much sense in an M car, does it?