Possibilities of hitting 400k KM plus?

[smudliar]

Other than the throttle actuators and rod bearings, assuming you do regular scheduled maintenance, what are things that would realistically prevent the e92 m3 hitting crazy miles? Luck is one factor but just wondering if anyone has any advice on this topic.

[Cmassey3]

This thread has some good info on high mileage s65 needs: https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=682601

[dar2008]

The highest mileage M3 in the UK (at last statutory check) is an E93, currently at 264k miles, or 424k kilometres.

So to answer your question, nothing is stopping these cars getting to that kind of mileage.

[Redd]

Just do your rod bearings every 80k kms / 50k miles, use good oil every 10k kms / 6k miles, and warm up up the oil before you give it high rpms. The engine will last a good long time.

Throttle actuators are no longer a concern with Rebuild units.

[tbuck]

Originally Posted by Redd

Just do your rod bearings every 80k kms / 50k miles, use good oil every 10k kms / 6k miles, and warm up up the oil before you give it high rpms. The engine will last a good long time.

Sorry, but this is nuts. Honestly, I know there is an issue with the original RB's, and even the later ones BMW used can have issues. But if I replace the RB's with BE/ARP bolts, why in the hell would I then go and replace them again at 50k miles?

We know there are cars out there with with 125-150k on the original bearings, and we know that some grenaded at 25k. This makes it rather clear the operator has a good deal to do with how quick these can go and how long they last. Properly warmed with a regular OCI and I don't see any reason to worry about these again. Maybe if you regularly track the car, ok sure. But for Joe Average, who drives on the street and occasionally takes it out for a romp through the backroads, changing them every 50k is straight up ridiculous.

[nrubenstein]

Originally Posted by tbuck

Sorry, but this is nuts. Honestly, I know there is an issue with the original RB's, and even the later ones BMW used can have issues. But if I replace the RB's with BE/ARP bolts, why in the hell would I then go and replace them again at 50k miles?

We know there are cars out there with with 125-150k on the original bearings, and we know that some grenaded at 25k. This makes it rather clear the operator has a good deal to do with how quick these can go and how long they last. Properly warmed with a regular OCI and I don't see any reason to worry about these again. Maybe if you regularly track the car, ok sure. But for Joe Average, who drives on the street and occasionally takes it out for a romp through the backroads, changing them every 50k is straight up ridiculous.

There is no evidence that the operator actually makes a difference. And I’ve seen S65s that grenaded as low as 1,300 miles.

Also, the main bearings fail. replacing the rod bearings every ten miles doesn’t fix that.

[tbuck]

Ok, but my point is there is also not a lot of evidence that BE or other aftermarket replacement bearings fail at x-number of miles either. All bearings fail at some point, sure, but just to arbitrarily change them every 50k miles is way out there.

[Redd]

Originally Posted by tbuck

Ok, but my point is there is also not a lot of evidence that BE or other aftermarket replacement bearings fail at x-number of miles either. All bearings fail at some point, sure, but just to arbitrarily change them every 50k miles is way out there.

Agree. No empirical evidence to support 5k, 50k or 500k RB change intervals. Just do what you're comfortable with and take your chances. Labor is relatively cheap in my country, and with FCP Euro lifetime guarantee it's worthwhile for me change RBs every 50k miles rather than run the risk of them failing.

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by Redd

Agree. No empirical evidence to support 5k, 50k or 500k RB change intervals. Just do what you're comfortable with and take your chances. Labor is relatively cheap in my country, and with FCP Euro lifetime guarantee it's worthwhile for me change RBs every 50k miles rather than run the risk of them failing.

even with cheap labor, it's open heart surgery on a tight spec engine. every time you do it, there's a non-zero chance of a mistake. at some point the odds of it blowing up from a mistake during replacement start to approach the odds of it blowing up from bad RBs.

clearly i have neither number but they're all factors.

[Arno_G]

Soon I'll be picking up a 2010 model with 135k km's on it. No history of rod bearings being done so will be replacing them with ACL's just to be sure. We'll see how they come out.

Would be lovely to put so many miles on a car like this.

[spammysammich]

Originally Posted by Arno_G

Soon I'll be picking up a 2010 model with 135k km's on it. No history of rod bearings being done so will be replacing them with ACL's just to be sure. We'll see how they come out.

Would be lovely to put so many miles on a car like this.

Just be aware that if you use standard clearance ACL you will not be solving the clearance issue that BE bearings are specd improve. You can get ACL sets measured or mixed to alter clearance but the -std part number isn't an equivalent set to BE. Deansbimmer at mporium is the only one I know that will cherry pick a set for you, I'm sure other shops will.

[x3sm]

Originally Posted by dar2008

The highest mileage M3 in the UK (at last statutory check) is an E93, currently at 264k miles, or 424k kilometres.

So to answer your question, nothing is stopping these cars getting to that kind of mileage.

I wonder how the convertible top is operating on this particular vehicle after 264k miles!!

[us722]

Originally Posted by Redd

Just do your rod bearings every 80k kms / 50k miles, use good oil every 10k kms / 6k miles, and warm up up the oil before you give it high rpms. The engine will last a good long time.

Throttle actuators are no longer a concern with Rebuild units.

I’m glad this was one of the first few posts because I want to address this stupidity. This shit happened with E46 (big3), E90 (RB, TA), F80 (CH).

I drove an E90 M3 like a civic in a Canadian winters. Several start ups in -40*C - yup that’s -40*F. Finally I the bullet at 100k miles and the bearings were in used shape but no where near blow up.

I eventually sold that car for a spec I really wanted and again 85k miles, bearings looked pretty solid. Used but not near blow up.

I talked to my shop about how many cars they’ve seen with RB failure? He said 1. Wtf. And that 1 was supercharged for many many track days.

So…. I decided to call up a few big Indy shops in Toronto/ Vancouver. They all do what forums suggest… Must go with BE or ACL mixed to be sure. Ask them how many failures and next to none.

So what do you do to drive these cars to moon and back? Change oil frequently. Don’t ignore warning signs. Drive them like any other car.

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by us722

I’m glad this was one of the first few posts because I want to address this stupidity. This shit happened with E46 (big3), E90 (RB, TA), F80 (CH).

I drove an E90 M3 like a civic in a Canadian winters. Several start ups in -40*C - yup that’s -40*F. Finally I the bullet at 100k miles and the bearings were in used shape but no where near blow up.

I eventually sold that car for a spec I really wanted and again 85k miles, bearings looked pretty solid. Used but not near blow up.

I talked to my shop about how many cars they’ve seen with RB failure? He said 1. Wtf. And that 1 was supercharged for many many track days.

So…. I decided to call up a few big Indy shops in Toronto/ Vancouver. They all do what forums suggest… Must go with BE or ACL mixed to be sure. Ask them how many failures and next to none.

So what do you do to drive these cars to moon and back? Change oil frequently. Don’t ignore warning signs. Drive them like any other car.

a 50k swap out interval is extreme. so is this, however.

how many E9xs did those shops see _total_? It's not a super common car, and of the 25k that made it to US/CA lifetime, i'd imagine less than a quarter made it to Canada (and probably a lot less). Of that portion, how many were serviced by the indy shops that you called?

The best, most empirical, evidence I've seen for the need to swap out the stock bearings for something looser is the condition thread here. Plenty of copper showing. Just because *you* have a car that's made it, doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

[tbuck]

Anyone who doubts that these cars have RB issues is just choosing not to believe. There is way too much data, even from the manufacturer, who has been replacing engines under warranty for this and have even redesigned the bearings themselves mid-model. Yeah, that is some stupidity right there....

OP, there is really no reason these cars can't make that type of mileage. Sadly many get wrecked long before making it that far, or if the engines do blow they get parted. Just take care of it and it will last.

[Redd]

With FCP parts, it will cost me $300 labor to replace RBs each time. Cheap insurance every 50k kms / 5 years. I get it why US owners are reluctant to change it due to the high cost.

Risk wise I'm not worried because the mech I use has done it hundreds of times on all M cars. None have come back with a blown engine which was caused by improper installation.

But yes, back to OP question - S65 will last a good long time with proper care.

[Arno_G]

Originally Posted by spammysammich

Just be aware that if you use standard clearance ACL you will not be solving the clearance issue that BE bearings are specd improve. You can get ACL sets measured or mixed to alter clearance but the -std part number isn't an equivalent set to BE. Deansbimmer at mporium is the only one I know that will cherry pick a set for you, I'm sure other shops will.

Thanks for the info
BE bearings aren't so common around here. I've also been adviced to put new OEM bearings again so it doesn't make things very clear.

[smudliar]

Sounds good fellas. I've been doing my oil changes around 5k km, mostly because I get oil a little cheaper so why not. Throttle actuators replaced at 115k KM. I bought it originally when it had 98k KM. It's sitting at 118k now. Engine runs great and everything, I warm it up as properly as I can before hitting the highway. I don't high rev until its fully warmed up so im pretty responsible on that end. Havent done my RB's and honestly do not intend to for a little while longer.

[ygoz]

Originally Posted by tbuck

Anyone who doubts that these cars have RB issues is just choosing not to believe. There is way too much data, even from the manufacturer, who has been replacing engines under warranty for this and have even redesigned the bearings themselves mid-model. Yeah, that is some stupidity right there....

OP, there is really no reason these cars can't make that type of mileage. Sadly many get wrecked long before making it that far, or if the engines do blow they get parted. Just take care of it and it will last.

Not denying the bearing issue - but BMW did not "redesign" the bearings due to engines blowing up, they had to remove lead from bearings due to regulation - if anything, the "redesigned" bearing is harder and less forgiving on the crank.

[ygoz]

Originally Posted by Arno_G

Thanks for the info
BE bearings aren't so common around here. I've also been adviced to put new OEM bearings again so it doesn't make things very clear.

That would be bad advice - stick with BE, mixed set of ACL, or high clearance ACL.

Otherwise you are simply re-introducing the same issue.

[Lucky1]

What about the main bearing assembly failure? That's total game over for the engine if it happens?

[ygoz]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

What about the main bearing assembly failure? That's total game over for the engine if it happens?

A lot less of these documented versus RB failure.
But my understanding is that usually when a main is spun it also cracks the block, and that's game over.