I'm shopping for an F80 and have questions.

[LuvMyE92]

So I'm trying to be a prepared, informed shopper, and as you can see from my signature below, I'm also trying to own every BMW model ever made (cars, not trucks) and sadly missing is the F80. I've driven these several times at the SC and CA performance centers, and I know how awesome they are.

FWIW, I'm shopping for a 6-speed manual, no color preference. It will be an occasional track toy, but will remain stock except perhaps for brake pads.

I have questions. Thank you for reading and in advance for answering one or more of these, apologies if I appear stupid, but who knows these cars better than you guys and gals?

1. This crank hub issue: I'm reading about it, and it seems to be one of those things that rarely happens, but when it does, it's catastrophic. Is it safe to assume that 99.9% of engines that experience this failure are modified or tuned? In other words, if I stay stock, will I be OK?

2. Prices are still stupid high on these cars. I know the whole used car market is still crazy. I found a car that I like, but it appears to not have HUD. This is not a deal-breaker for me, but I know I'll miss it. I presume that is one reason it hasn't sold. Also, it's out of state so I can't go look at it, and it has some kind of cloth interior, which I really like, but I didn't even realize that was possible to get on a BMW. Anyone have this, and how is the comfort?

3. This potential car appears to be a stripper with no options, CF roof, tiny wheels, which again is OK, but I wonder about resale down the road. Thoughts?

4. Any other common failure points or issues on these cars that I should be aware of or check for?

5. I presume that there is still no way to tell if a car had a tune in the past. I would prefer to avoid those.

Thanks!

[summilux]

1. Crank hub is, for the most part, an issue for those who tune
2. I didn't know you could get clothe either. I thought all F8x had leather
3. I've got a stripper too. I did pay for full leather and the garage door opener but that's it. No premium stuff for me. I'm very happy
4. If you can test drive, check for interior rattles and buzzing. These bother some people but not others. Other than interior noise, my 4.5 year old M3 has had no issues.

[kwikshift]

1. It’s happened to all years, modded or stock with low or high mileage. However, seems to occur when the driver kicks down BUT not the only reason
2. Don’t let this be a deal breaker. You could always invest in a bucket seat or swap out the interior. We’re getting to a point where more and more f80s are getting wrecked.
3. If this is going to be a track car, this seems like the ideal package. If you plan to resale down the road it might turn away some buyers.
4. At some point the valve cover can start leaking, the top mount intercooler can fail, plastic charge pipes can crack, and I might be forgetting one. Pcv maybe? Someone can confirm.
5. You can look at the sport display, specifically the HP and torque and see what then car has registered

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by kwikshift

5. You can look at the sport display, specifically the HP and torque and see what then car has registered

Oh? I didn't realize that it showed history. Hmmm, I'll play with it on my current car to see how to do that.

Hopefully when the dealer clears all of the memory and settings it doesn't also erase that.

Thanks!

[BzsBimmer]

1. Yes mostly tuned but there are factory outliers. What you see on the forums is still not the entire population of M owners

2. If HUD is a deal breaker, maybe wait until you find your unicorn or retrofit one in. If you’re going to relegate this into a track toy, maybe the HUD isn’t as critical. Speed cloth was an option. You can search on here as owners find it quite comfortable and lighter as well.

3. Again, if you’re going to track it, I wouldn’t worry so much about resale. Also look at your buying process. You’re probably also looking to pay a premium for a manual. I’m sure others will as well.

4. Another above posted some of the typical failure points but also a prior owner of several prior models of M cars and BMW’s in general, this chassis platform is actually pretty reliable overall. I’m sure as these cars age even more, bits and pieces will fail but doesn’t seem to be as big of a problem as one might be concerned with. YMMV

5. You can opt for a PPI at a dealer. They can tell you if the car has been tuned. I’m not sure if the sports dash changes if you put the car back to stock tune. Maybe another who has done it can chime in.

Hope you find what you’re looking for.

[RugbyBro]

1. Don't worry about it and if you want to tune, then keep it as a part that you'll look to upgrade as part of the tuning process.
2. No experience with the cloth.
3. I don't put much stock in stripper models - just get the one you want. Personally after having the plastic dashboard, I went full leather on my F80.
4. TMIC, front turbo intake gaskets, diff bushing (older cars with the fluid busing, newer cars have a foam bushing and need not worry.)
5. PPI from a dealer and specifically ask them to check the ECU. PPIs from dealers are a shit show, be VERY specific about what you want to know. Otherwise they'll take your money and give the car a light pat down.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

4. TMIC, front turbo intake gaskets, diff bushing

TMIC? I'm assuming that this too is typically a problem for modded/tuned cars?

I've bought and sold many a used car, and as noted, PPIs can be hit and miss, especially when you're out of town and just kind of crossing your fingers on how good the shop is. I could tell stories...

The car I'm looking at is at a BMW dealer, so it may be more challenging to get a PPI at a different dealer (logistics if nothing else).

And no, I don't trust them any more than I trust any used car dealer.

Thanks!

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

TMIC? I'm assuming that this too is typically a problem for modded/tuned cars?

I've bought and sold many a used car, and as noted, PPIs can be hit and miss, especially when you're out of town and just kind of crossing your fingers on how good the shop is. I could tell stories...

The car I'm looking at is at a BMW dealer, so it may be more challenging to get a PPI at a different dealer (logistics if nothing else).

And no, I don't trust them any more than I trust any used car dealer.

Thanks!

Top Mount Intercooler - this is can fail and would require replacement, there's a thread on it in the Engine/Drivetrain section. Not super common, but something to keep in mind. No idea if tuned plays a factor.

Overall F8X might be the most reliable M car ever made; they're pretty bullet proof when treated right.

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

So I'm trying to be a prepared, informed shopper, and as you can see from my signature below, I'm also trying to own every BMW model ever made (cars, not trucks) and sadly missing is the F80. I've driven these several times at the SC and CA performance centers, and I know how awesome they are.

FWIW, I'm shopping for a 6-speed manual, no color preference. It will be an occasional track toy, but will remain stock except perhaps for brake pads.

I have questions. Thank you for reading and in advance for answering one or more of these, apologies if I appear stupid, but who knows these cars better than you guys and gals?

1. This crank hub issue: I'm reading about it, and it seems to be one of those things that rarely happens, but when it does, it's catastrophic. Is it safe to assume that 99.9% of engines that experience this failure are modified or tuned? In other words, if I stay stock, will I be OK?

2. Prices are still stupid high on these cars. I know the whole used car market is still crazy. I found a car that I like, but it appears to not have HUD. This is not a deal-breaker for me, but I know I'll miss it. I presume that is one reason it hasn't sold. Also, it's out of state so I can't go look at it, and it has some kind of cloth interior, which I really like, but I didn't even realize that was possible to get on a BMW. Anyone have this, and how is the comfort?

3. This potential car appears to be a stripper with no options, CF roof, tiny wheels, which again is OK, but I wonder about resale down the road. Thoughts?

4. Any other common failure points or issues on these cars that I should be aware of or check for?

5. I presume that there is still no way to tell if a car had a tune in the past. I would prefer to avoid those.

Thanks!

1. I will be 100% honest with you and say there have been reports about the crankhub failing at stock, it's very rare like willing the lottery, but people DO win the lottery. Cheap insurance is like a crank hub bolt capture which some people do. Some say it has something to do with using the kickdown which is a very aggressive down shifting (like 2 gears) and you'll be shooting off like a rocket. My mechanic also says it's very rare for the crankhub to fail.

2. Most cars opted for something called "Extended Leather" which means leather in the doors and the seating area. It was cheap compared to the "Full Leather" which added more leather to the door cards and to the dashboard. The price difference was like 500 vs like 3000 or something like that. Some people like cloth and some people like leather so I will say this is a personal preference. I prefer leather over cloth because it's easier to keep clean and it looks more high end. Without the HUD it seems like you are missing the exec package (this vary from year to year) which means you are most likely missing things like a comfort access, 360 camera, side cameras, speed sign read out, automatic high beams, full LED lights, heated steering wheel, and also the rear backup camera. I think in some years the rear backup camera was part of the driver assistance package and in some years it was part of the executive package (I could be wrong about this one, but I remember some people didn't like to opt for a certain package to get a back up camera).

3. Resale on the road for a stripped out car is harder to sell IMO. You have to find a specific person that wants to turn that car into a track car. With more luxury things, it will appeal to more people down the road. Going back to point #2, you are surprised to see a BMW with cloth, and most people would be surprised as well and would probably steer clear of the car.

4. Other common issues would be the following:

Top Mounted Intercooler Leaking
Coolant Reservior (Check the seams)
Rear Differential Seals Leaking
Cracking Radio Buttons
Cracking M Badges on Seats (Depending on the year)
Valve Cover Leak

5. If you live in a CARB state I think they are checking the checksum if your ECU now for a tune and if you fail the checksum you will need the dealership to flash your car back to stock.

Originally Posted by hellokitty

This happened to me. Feel free to ask away, but in essence, as long as you flash your car back to stock, you'll be ok.

Keep in mind that your first smog check (first EVER for the car) will serve as the reference point for future smog checks. The DMV will store your OBD2 checksum data into the database and if you try to fudge with future smog checks, you'll get sent to the ref.

The only remedy would be for you to take your car back to the dealership and ask them to flash you back to stock (in the event that BM3/Ecutek/MHD "flash back to stock" is not appropriate data for your car based on checksum).

"Referee Centers also reinspect vehicles that receive a "DATA CHECK FAIL" during a BAR-OIS inspection. A "DATA CHECK FAIL" occurs when data downloaded from the vehicle's OBD system during its last inspection is inappropriate for that vehicle. In order for the vehicle to receive a Smog Check certificate, the Referee must perform an inspection and verify the appropriateness of the data."

https://asktheref.org/Information/Mo...iness-Concerns

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1841786

[swagon]

Cloth/fabric seats are great. No downsides to leather apart that you can't have full leather dashboard with the Carbonstructure interior.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

1. This crank hub issue: I'm reading about it, and it seems to be one of those things that rarely happens, but when it does, it's catastrophic. Is it safe to assume that 99.9% of engines that experience this failure are modified or tuned? In other words, if I stay stock, will I be OK?

2. Prices are still stupid high on these cars. I know the whole used car market is still crazy. I found a car that I like, but it appears to not have HUD. This is not a deal-breaker for me, but I know I'll miss it. I presume that is one reason it hasn't sold. Also, it's out of state so I can't go look at it, and it has some kind of cloth interior, which I really like, but I didn't even realize that was possible to get on a BMW. Anyone have this, and how is the comfort?

3. This potential car appears to be a stripper with no options, CF roof, tiny wheels, which again is OK, but I wonder about resale down the road. Thoughts?

4. Any other common failure points or issues on these cars that I should be aware of or check for?

5. I presume that there is still no way to tell if a car had a tune in the past. I would prefer to avoid those.

Thanks!

1. If you don't tune, you'll be fine. I tracked mine and used kick down often. I took very good care of the car as far as maintenance went and never had any issues - neither does anyone on the track forum here if you want further confirmation (feel free to ask us there)
2. No experience with cloth
3. For a track toy that sounds great, you'll want different wheels/camber plates and will probably end up upgrading the braking system at some point
4. I found it to be extremely reliable - no issues
5. I think there should be a way to know if the ECU has been flashed before no? I, personally, would definitely make sure it wasn't before tuned if I was buying.

[TopJimmy]

1. If the car hasn't spun a hub yet then it's not likely, but I'd still put a CBC on it for added protection. It's a $100-150 part and an easy DIY. Even if you have a shop install it their cost should be 2H or less ($200-300). That's economical protection, and even allows for a Stage 2 gas or E30 tune.

2. Cloth seems better to keep your back from sweating. I've heard of them coming with the heated seat option. If yours has the lumbar support adjustment then it's even better (not sure if offered). I haven't sat in the cloth seats myself…

3. Stripper is fine. An M-car is an M-car, and track rats prefer the stripped down models.

4. Guys above provided a good checklist. All stock parts are fine, even for a track car. Just check the TMIC reservoir frequently to make sure no leaks have developed. Good oil changed every 5K miles is important.

5. If buying from a BMW dealer have them check for a tune using their ISTA software. If it is or ever was tuned their software will know (unless the previous owner acquired a spare DME second-hand and swapped back to the original, which is VERY unlikely).

Go have fun!

-TJ

[cotmfk]

The carbonstructure cloth is awesome. I had it on my M4. It's a rarer option. Typically found on stripper-spec models. Carbonstructure in combination with comp package, therefore, is a super-rare spec right off the bat. (IDK if the car you are looking at has comp package - sounds like no.)

As far as comfort - it is called cloth, but it is really tightly woven. It doesn't feel like a typical cloth when you think of, say, a Toyota Camry's cloth. It feels much rougher than that. That said, it keeps you in place really well during aggressive driving, and it holds together well over mileage.

As someone else mentioned, it is all personal preference.

[LuvMyE92]

Thanks all! I've confirmed with the dealer that the car is a zero option item, which bothers me only as far as resale is concerned. I don't need cameras and such, but I know that most people want that.

It's not a consideration for me, because you can't count on it, but I have seen that in the case of E90 M3s, the low option cars (no nav, no sunroof, etc.) cars do better in BaT auctions than the "luxury" editions do. Funny.

[agentrnge]

Wow you have had a lot of cars! I normally say resale is not a concern as I hang on to cars so long, but I guess if you rotate frequently its an issue. Quickly chiming in. I have a stripper 6MT, and love the fact that its simple-ish. Carbonstructure seats are great.

[Humdizzle]

1. CH failure can happen to any model. but more likely to happen to tuned cars. the more power an engine makes, the more stress it has, the more likely things are to fail. there are guys who run crazy tunes for 100k miles with no problems, and there are guys with stock cars who blow their CH a few months off the dealer lot.

2. HUD is part of the exec pack on early years. not sure if this changed down the road. but it includes comfort access, heated seats, heated wheel, park distance control. those are all some pretty key features in my book. especially the comfort access where you can just touch the door to unlock it.

3. stripper cars may or may not be worth something down the road. E92's without navi (single hump cars) usually sell for more these days. it will take a while though. if you are planning to sell in the next few years your stripper will be worth less than a similar well optioned car and tougher to move. most people want exec pack, lighting pack, and the adaptive suspension. the leather and 360 cam are small potatoes.

4. aside from CH issue these cars are solid. some have creaking in the door due to the rubber seals but that is an easy fix.

5. Hard to know if the car has been tuned in the past. If someone really wants to they can remove the tune before trading in.

[DaiLyCS]

Depends on your budget, if you want to keep or resale the 2018 m3 competition with fully loaded of options and 6 speed will keep your value unlike the e9x the f80 with a lot of options is actually really nice. I prefer full leather on all the bmw, but will make it harder to shop for you
Good luck

[W///]

Cloth seats are a rare option and IMO are great. Got experience with them on the E92 M3 and F80.

Don't have much to add on top of what everyone has said, but curious about your experience of your G82. Saw it in your sig and I assume that was a pretty short time with it?

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by W///

Cloth seats are a rare option and IMO are great. Got experience with them on the E92 M3 and F80.

Don't have much to add on top of what everyone has said, but curious about your experience of your G82. Saw it in your sig and I assume that was a pretty short time with it?

Yeah, the G82 was one of those things that just kind of fell into my lap - a buddy found it and sent me the link, I bought it new with a discount because it was mid-pandemic and the word hadn't really gotten out yet. I didn't care for the color and honestly I prefer the looks of the M3 over the M4, but the car was just too awesome to pass up.

Then I bought my Alpina about 8 months later and found myself not wanting to drive the M4 so much... I did track it a few times (it was awesome!) but tossing a $80K car around on the track kind of makes me nervous. Then I noticed how resale values were going through the roof, long story short, I sold it for more than I paid OTD, taxes and all, so why not? Free car rental for almost a year.

Now I've got the track bug again, and was thinking that a $40-50K car would be less stressful to enjoy on the track. Unfortunately, as I shop, I see that most F80s are in the 50s, and I think that's just too much money.

Maybe as the economy, stock market, etc. continues to drop, interest rates continue to go up and of course, winter, prices will come down a bit more.

And I'll buy something more mainstream, with leather, premium, etc. that I can more easily resell. As I am fickle...

[Theruleslawyer]

Not a lot to add, but if you want to dd it the exec pack is really nice. A track car id want a stripper. Only option I actively didn't want was a sunroof.

SCH is rare. Most of the other common items aren't expensive. Not like other Ms where you have rod bearings as part of the maintenance schedule.

[jmg]

The cloth interior is GREAT! It was called Carbonstructure and I had it in my non-Comp 2016 M3. I wouldn't hesitate to get it again. Good grip, doesn't get hot, doesn't stick to your thighs if you're wearing booty shorts etc.

As a someone who tracks, I'd also search for something with a HUD. That's exactly where you will appreciate not having to look down and keeping your eyes ahead. I love it and I wouldn't go without it if I had the option.

If the car has the MPE I would keep in mind that the V1 had cracking issues. They are titanium and you need someone who works with titanium to weld it. The V2 has extra brackets to help with the cracking issue.

Crank Hub are for those that tune. I wouldn't worry about it if you are stock.

Good luck with your search!

[DaiLyCS]

Originally Posted by jmg

The cloth interior is GREAT! It was called Carbonstructure and I had it in my non-Comp 2016 M3. I wouldn't hesitate to get it again. Good grip, doesn't get hot, doesn't stick to your thighs if you're wearing booty shorts etc.

As a someone who tracks, I'd also search for something with a HUD. That's exactly where you will appreciate not having to look down and keeping your eyes ahead. I love it and I wouldn't go without it if I had the option.

If the car has the MPE I would keep in mind that the V1 had cracking issues. They are titanium and you need someone who works with titanium to weld it. The V2 has extra brackets to help with the cracking issue.

Crank Hub are for those that tune. I wouldn't worry about it if you are stock.

Good luck with your search!

Good call on HUD, before my m3 CS I didn't care so much about it. But after having it , it a must have for. Really good to have when you shift your own gear.