[Kroghj1]

     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

Just got back from a 2 day track event at VIR full course through chin.

Wow, just wow. The car (bone stock) is seriously impressive.

Hopefully not offending anyone with this statement, but I’m convinced that everyone complaining about the mass of the car simply hasn’t driven it anywhere close to the limit. You simply can’t tell that it weighs so much. The car had two wheels off the ground at 90ish hopping the curbs on the climbing s curves repeatedly, and the suspension didn’t bat an eyelash.

I’ve owned lightweight cars prior to the g87 and yes they do feel more lively at street legal speeds… so I get it, with street driving as the primary point of reference. But from a pure performance standpoint, don’t listen to the armchair race engineers. We basically got a ton of refinement in this G generation car with no performance trade off versus F gen BMWs.

In fairness I’m scared to look at my brake pads… I’m sure the weight means it is going to eat expensive consumables… but purely from a feel and speed standpoint, it’s pretty magical what they’ve done with this chassis.

Brake feel was incredible and the car responds incredibly well to trail braking. It’s quite easy to manage the weight balance smoothly and get the nose where it needs to be. Brakes with stock pads and fluid had zero fade over 6 sessions in 2 days. I was a little worried because I read a few horror stories on the m4 board but clearly the guy either was dragging the brakes or forgot to remove the duct covers.

My complaints about modern BMW steering feel went away on track. You can tell exactly what’s going on with the front end.

Purely from a speed standpoint, the car easily kept up with and passed gt4s, gt500s, gt350s, m4s, c8s, etc. Caught/passed all kinds of machinery in both the corners and on the straights. I gave one point by all weekend long, to a heavily modified c8.

Candidly my only complaints were:

1 The exhaust - it’s just not really loud enough to rely on sound to pick your shift points with all of the other (likely louder) cars around. Ended up leaving it in auto with the occasional manual short shift for certain corner exits. Too much going on to always be looking at the tach.

2 The last 10% of the throttle travel felt a little “sticky” - maybe just my car? Going to have the dealer look at it… obviously smooth is fast, but the last 10% of pedal travel sometimes required an extra dose of pressure to go full throttle, which made it difficult to get to full throttle in the corner exit without accidentally upsetting the balance of the car. Found myself being a little reserved and hitting full throttle after getting the wheel straightened back up to avoid a silly mistake. Anyone else felt this or just me?

[marlinduke]

Great report. Great racetrack. Tell us how it did on Oak Tree? I imagine if mass was truly a problem for the suspension, the stomp on the brakes, weight transfer to the front, turn and accelerate would unmask issues, especially coming out of it with 718s and Corvettes.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by Kroghj1

Just got back from a 2 day track event at VIR full course through chin.

Wow, just wow. The car (bone stock) is seriously impressive.

Hey great report - thanks.

how did it do vs #91 Camaro? I just sold my 2018 SS 1LE (which performed flawlessly in over 50 track days), and am waiting for my G87 to arrive (also BSM) as it's replacement. If it does at least as well as the 1LE on track I'll be happy.

Second question - pictures of the front tires? How did the outside
shoulders do as far as wear? How did the car handle mid corner with stock camber?

Thanks again.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by Kroghj1

2 The last 10% of the throttle travel felt a little “sticky” - maybe just my car? Going to have the dealer look at it… obviously smooth is fast, but the last 10% of pedal travel sometimes required an extra dose of pressure to go full throttle, which made it difficult to get to full throttle in the corner exit without accidentally upsetting the balance of the car. Found myself being a little reserved and hitting full throttle after getting the wheel straightened back up to avoid a silly mistake. Anyone else felt this or just me?

Sounds like it was the kickdown.

Page 118 of the Owner's Manual.

[Kroghj1]

Oak tree was not very dramatic…no issues. braked at the 2 board hard and then trail braked all the way through apex before the back straight.

If anything, rollercoaster is the corner that seemed like the car was having to work its computer magic the most…. Being hard on the brakes while also turning the left kink to set up the right hander makes the back end want to party for 0.2 seconds and then the systems figure it out. No scary moments you can just tell there’s a lot happening in the software with the elevation, camber, and movement of mass all happening at once.

Thanks for those that replied on the throttle - it was definitely the kick down on the accelator. What I experienced was what felt like inconsistent pressure required to get past the initial “kick down” point of resistatsnce to get into full throttle. Could have been in my head but it felt a little inconsistent. Much less impactful in sport or sport plus because the throttle shape appears to not rely on that last 10% of travel as much, but it’s quite a big deal in efficient where a lot of power comes from the kick down travel. Probably a mistake, but when it was a little wet outside I ran it in efficient to tone down the throttle response thinking that would be a bit safer when grip was low. In hindsight it was probably the opposite because of the inconsistent feel I’m describing.

Car kept up with stock Camaros easily. The one pictured was far from stock… different engine, full cage, full suspension, dry dump oil system where the trunk should be, and r compound tires (im on the pilot sport 4s)..

Traffic was a factor all weekend with a sold out event.. so can’t really compare hot lap times perfectly.. but that heavily modified Camaro was about 7 seconds faster per lap. It was in a different run group so I didn’t drive along side it.

Stock, my money would be on the g87 based on the number of camaros passed over the weekend.

[Kroghj1]

Forgot to answer the mid corner handling question…I was really impressed with how the nose responded to throttle steer mid corner. It was all just very linear and easy to drive. When you lift smoothly, the nose predictably tucks in, and then you get back on it, the car predictably tracks back out. With how well the car trail brakes and responds to throttle steer, there’s very few parts of the lap where the car was happier coasting… just the fastest part of the uphill S curves where I hit my current limits as a driver.. everything else was happy with immediate transitions from trail brake to gas.

Granted it was only for 10 minutes or so, but I spent a small amount of seat time in the z4/Supra chassis at the Greenville handling track…. That car was the exact opposite, it was very quick to get upset and swing the rear in lots of scenarios that the g87 wouldn’t even notice. I’ve read the commentary on the Supra being “more rewarding when you get it right”, but honestly that’s not my thing in the real world.. in my own, one and only street car with a big track insurance deductible, I’ll take super linear corner entry/mid corner dynamics over the knife edge any day of the week. Pointy cars are fun/fast on the sim but based on what I felt, I’m not sure i’d feel comfortable really pushing a Supra all the way to limit without a LOT of seat time in that particular chassis.

[WhiteRqbbit]

Great review, VIR I think is the closest track to me - I hope to go to an event next year. I have a buddy who raced in F3 who basically is my coach whenever we get on the simulator, I actually watched him race at VIR a few years ago.

[KCuv]

Good write up!

I agree, it doesn’t feel that heavy. 3700lbs for a modern car isn’t that much. Especially considering it has been consistently putting down 470+whp. people are just whiney for the sake of arguing. It’s a fantastic overall package.

[c1pher]

Nice report. I'm still in break-in and while I won't say it turns as well as my 718 or 911, it's very close. It's also very flat and planted in turns. The automatic is almost DCT-like and much better than the C7 auto I used to own. It's very quick to shift up and down.

[shawnhayes]

Was there with you. We were in the M5 CS. My girlfriend thinks she remembers seeing you. We did happy hour first day, but skipped happy hour second day (I had corded my Pilot Sport Cups by then). We both love that car.

Shawn

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Kroghj1

2 The last 10% of the throttle travel felt a little “sticky” - maybe just my car? Going to have the dealer look at it… obviously smooth is fast, but the last 10% of pedal travel sometimes required an extra dose of pressure to go full throttle, which made it difficult to get to full throttle in the corner exit without accidentally upsetting the balance of the car. Found myself being a little reserved and hitting full throttle after getting the wheel straightened back up to avoid a silly mistake. Anyone else felt this or just me?

Missed this on first read. This is a "feature" of many BMW cars. The pedal has a "end of travel" and then a detent you have to push through to signal the computer you want WOT. It then does 100%

Shawn

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Missed this on first read. This is a "feature" of many BMW cars. The pedal has a "end of travel" and then a detent you have to push through to signal the computer you want WOT. It then does 100%

Shawn

I don't think this is how it works.

WOT is achieved at the end of travel, but not when you push the button. The button is a kickdown function.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I don't think this is how it works.

WOT is achieved at the end of travel, but not when you push the button. The button is a kickdown function.

Goodness....

From the manual...

"Kickdown

Kickdown is used to achieve maximum drive power in Drive mode.

Step on the accelerator pedal beyond the resistance point at the full throttle position."

Kickdown and 100% throttle differ how? When I'm on track, coming out of Oak Tree, getting to that detent and pushing through it doesn't shift the transmission into a lower gear. It's already doing it's best in full performance mode. It may CERTAINLY not be what you experience in grandma mode hauling the kids to school, but it is for certain a 100% WOT on track - and not 100% before you hit that.

Shawn

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Goodness....

From the manual...

"Kickdown

Kickdown is used to achieve maximum drive power in Drive mode.

Step on the accelerator pedal beyond the resistance point at the full throttle position."

Kickdown and 100% throttle differ how? When I'm on track, coming out of Oak Tree, getting to that detent and pushing through it doesn't shift the transmission into a lower gear. It's already doing it's best in full performance mode. It may CERTAINLY not be what you experience in grandma mode hauling the kids to school, but it is for certain a 100% WOT on track - and not 100% before you hit that.

Shawn

Very simple, and without being condescending to you as you were to me, kickdown is a function that tells the transmission you want maximum power, so it will reduce gears to get the car moving fast.

WOT, or Wide Open Throttle, is when your accelerator is fully open. As we all know, WOT doesn't mean full power (you can't accelerate too fast at WOT in 6th gear at 30 mph), but it does mean "WOT".

You achieve WOT by depressing the full throttle without hitting the kickdown button.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Very simple, and without being condescending to you as you were to me, kickdown is a function that tells the transmission you want maximum power, so it will reduce gears to get the car moving fast.

WOT, or Wide Open Throttle, is when your accelerator is fully open. As we all know, WOT doesn't mean full power (you can't accelerate too fast at WOT in 6th gear at 30 mph), but it does mean "WOT".

You achieve WOT by depressing the full throttle without hitting the kickdown button.

If "goodness" is condescending, sorry about that.

I still completely disagree. "kickdown" on old cars was a simple mechanical switch that was engaged at 100% accelerator pedal, and there was no "logic" other than mechanical in the transmission. It only knew to downshift by this switch.

What you're saying is that 100% throttle is achieved at the end of the accelerator pedal (before the detent). I can tell you from the BMW laptimer telemetry this is NOT the case. I no longer use that, because I use a Garmin catalyst now. But my old telemetry told me I wasn't getting 100% throttle without going through that detent.

But, honestly, you're telling me that kickdown and 100% throttle differ. I don't agree. My telemetry doesn't agree. But, you got evidence to the contrary? Go for it.

Shawn

[G30 B58]

Tow hook, thank you!!!

Glad you didn't need it, happy to see it.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

If "goodness" is condescending, sorry about that.

I still completely disagree. "kickdown" on old cars was a simple mechanical switch that was engaged at 100% accelerator pedal, and there was no "logic" other than mechanical in the transmission. It only knew to downshift by this switch.

What you're saying is that 100% throttle is achieved at the end of the accelerator pedal (before the detent). I can tell you from the BMW laptimer telemetry this is NOT the case. I no longer use that, because I use a Garmin catalyst now. But my old telemetry told me I wasn't getting 100% throttle without going through that detent.

But, honestly, you're telling me that kickdown and 100% throttle differ. I don't agree. My telemetry doesn't agree. But, you got evidence to the contrary? Go for it.

Shawn

Yes, "goodness" is condescending, but I accept your apology.

So, I might be wrong, I'll fully admit to it. I "believe" WOT happens before the kickdown, I'll try to find BMW's documentation. But I'll trust your experience and data, perhaps the car doesn't go "WOT" (they haven't really used throttle for acceleration control for years anyway, so the term is not fully true for BMW with Valvetronic) until the button is depressed. I'll try to find some technical info, the manual doesn't detail this for us.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Yes, "goodness" is condescending, but I accept your apology.

So, I might be wrong, I'll fully admit to it. I "believe" WOT happens before the kickdown, I'll try to find BMW's documentation. But I'll trust your experience and data, perhaps the car doesn't go "WOT" (they haven't really used throttle for acceleration control for years anyway, so the term is not fully true for BMW with Valvetronic) until the button is depressed. I'll try to find some technical info, the manual doesn't detail this for us.

Agree on the paucity of available literature. We probably have to read the manual in German to really get it. Having just done some research, according to the Internets (cause they're always right), supposedly you can't get launch control to engage until you go through the detent. I don't know. I don't "launch" my cars.

And, BMW laptimer may be crap (yeah, it's kind of the reason I got a Garmin anyway), but it absolutely told me I was at 99% throttle until I got through the detent on track. Could it be wrong? Sure. But I can say, the car accelerates a LITTLE better when I push through that resistance. A lot better? No. But goodness, the difference between 99% and 100% is pretty damn hard to tell from butt dyno. I haven't done OBD tracking yet on the throttle pedal for sure.

But, for me, functionally from old cars, 100% throttle and "kickdown" were basically the same. (cause it was the same gas pedal position). Did BMW add it as a different function? Hell, considering some of the other sh** that they do, maybe? But, then again, really, 99% and 100% throttle mean very little in the real world - except at the back of VIR straightaway at 157mph.

Shawn

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Yes, "goodness" is condescending, but I accept your apology.

And, not used to this interpretation. Sorry. Maybe background.

This is what I'm used to.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/goodness

interjection
Also my goodness or goodness gracious . (used in expressions of surprise, alarm, etc.)

I don't mean surprise to be condescending. So, yeah, sorry about that.

Shawn

[///M TOWN]

I love seeing people driving their car as they was intended

Interesting tidbit about the Z4’s handling

And man that Camaro is butt ugly

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by Kroghj1

Granted it was only for 10 minutes or so, but I spent a small amount of seat time in the z4/Supra chassis at the Greenville handling track…. That car was the exact opposite, it was very quick to get upset and swing the rear in lots of scenarios that the g87 wouldn’t even notice. I’ve read the commentary on the Supra being “more rewarding when you get it right”, but honestly that’s not my thing in the real world.. in my own, one and only street car with a big track insurance deductible, I’ll take super linear corner entry/mid corner dynamics over the knife edge any day of the week. Pointy cars are fun/fast on the sim but based on what I felt, I’m not sure i’d feel comfortable really pushing a Supra all the way to limit without a LOT of seat time in that particular chassis.

This is the thing that holds most of us back from our best lap times. But also the thing that keeps us from wrecking more often. Our "butt dyno calibration" is different person to person. The person who is most comfortable at the 10/10ths limit has probably put a car or two into a wall.

I'm the same as you. All other things being equal, I don't like it when the rear goes all squiggly. Maybe fast, but not fun for me.

Shawn

[MT6]

Thorough reporting keep it up