From 335xi to M3 - review

[MaxL]

Finally found some time to write about my impressions from switching from 335 to M3. I know, there are many threads on this topic already, but I was one of those guys who think that 335 is the best car ever (I still am, in some sense), and I write for living, so my post should add some value.


First why I bought M3 – I was planning to get a dedicated car for DE (track) events, and my 335xi was definitely not it. It was very fast, easy to drive etc, but at 10/10 or even 9/10 it often kept me guessing – is there grip, if it’s going to understeer or oversteer and so on. Four wheel drive exacerbated the problem – torque transfer between axles sometimes masked mistakes and sometimes emphasized them, impeding my learning.

So I was set on getting Boxster Spyder – a good car to learn on, while it still could be used for pleasure driving outside of track. Then reality set in – I had no space for two cars, and with my driving about 8-9K km/year (5K miles), I clearly had no need for two cars. I had to get one car to be daily driver and track toy. Carrera S, Nissan GTR, Lexus IS-F, AMG C63 and Audi RS4 were eliminated for one reason or the other (in this order), and I had to settle for M3. I decided to get sedan because I like the looks better and could get two extra door without sacrificing speed. So I got it. Had to buy from the USA, because there was no car I wanted in the whole big Canada. Now I understand what people mean when they say this country is empty…

So, I took delivery of 2009 E90 Jet Black with DCT, 19” wheels and all available options, except sunroof, and started comparing the two cars.

First, looks – M3 wins no contest. From the meanest look at the front to classy rear lights, it is just awesome. The stock wheels are also very classy and surprisingly light. The only thing I’d change is make it sit a bit lower, but unfortunately lowering is not in the cards for me, as I already cannot get over speed bumps in my lane without scraping :-(. So the car looks great, and I’ll post pictures to prove it, once I get it to a car wash.

Interior – definitely more classy, but the difference is not that big (my 335 has premium and sport packages). The biggest deal for me, besides newer iDrive, was split armrest and M-wheel. Slightly more bolstered seats are nice, but the difference it too subtle. It looks and feels more expensive, but nothing really stands out much, and I would not crave M3 interior over 335i. I actually have a problem with the leather in M – it gets scuffed so much easier than in 335i, and more pronounced seat bolsters make matters worse. I’d take rougher leather that lasts longer – after all, I wear pants when I drive.

Now, driving impression – this is where the fun begins. The engine is unbelievable. I gave a delivery guy a ride back to his truck when I took the delivery, and I drove two blocks on the first gear without running out of revs (I thought it was on auto – I’m smarter now). I immediately fell in love with the sound and smoothness of the engine. The 335 is really good, and the engine is vibration-free at any revs, but M3 somehow improves on that. In terms of smoothness, I’d say M3 is a bigger improvement on 335i than 335i is on G37.

It took me less than a day to understand why testdrives of M3 are often underwhelming. It’s two words – throttle mapping. M3 is VERY linear with the last 10% of pedal movement adding the same amount of torque as the first 10%, while 335 has much sharper response in the beginning. In simple terms, if you do not push the gas pedal far, M3 feels much slower. And it is not that M3 has torque only up top – not true, plenty of torque even under 2K RMP. Just push the pedal further. Once you adjust, it pulls stronger than 335i in any gear. Do not believe anyone who says otherwise. M3 has 90% of 335i’s peak torque throughout a rev range that is almost as big as 335i’s redline, but it also has more aggressive gearing, so torque to the ground is much bigger. And I am comparing to 335 that may or may not be stock ;-).

The throttle response, as expected, is much quicker, plus no turbo lag. The 335 has no classic “turbo lag” – the engine reacts to throttle almost instantaneously giving more torque (after almost imperceptible throttle delay) but it takes some time to stabilize at desired torque. M3 dishes out exactly as much torque as you order exactly when you order it – no hesitation, fluctuation, stabilizing – it is just there. It’s like comparing conventional incandescent bulb to an LED (where M3 is LED). This makes me think M3 should be easier to drive in winter than RWD 335i.

Of course, it is a different story with AWD. After driving M3, I am convinced that AWD is absolutely the best for getting around in the city. On the track – yes, RWD gives control and feel of the car that is not yet possible with AWD, even in GTR or Carrera 4S. But in the city, with its rain, snow, broken pavement, sand, dried leaves, etc, in RWD cars, acceleration is traction-limited most of the time. Pulling quick left turn, making an instant pass – all that is better and more consistently done by and AWD car in city conditions, period (at least for cars with around 400hp). Still, I am willing to sacrifice that for more involved driving, especially at a track.

Suspension… I could not imagine this… Honestly, I drove/rode in 911S, Cayman, M5, Supra and Z06 and still was surprised. First was communication – this car tells you exactly what’s going on, and describes every crack in the pavement, without making it an inconvenience. I think the best comparison here would be with sound. Most sporty cars have suspensions that work like cheap earplugs – muffle the sound to drone and making it difficult to understand what’s going on, while sometimes annoyingly letting passing more loud things pass. Putting tighter springs/coilovers in such cars is like turning up the volume without taking earplugs out – it gets more tiring and annoying without much improvement in clarity. Some better performance cars work like high-end headphones – you can hear even how performer’s clothes wrinkles, and you cannot escape from the sound because it feels like it’s in your brain. M3 works like a well-designed home theater at medium volume – you hear and understand everything, and can position any sound in space if you want to, but you can just tune it out if you are not into it. It is so brilliant that it is difficult to judge stiffness of suspension. I feel everything, so it is stiff, but ride is almost never harsh, so it is not stiff. Steering feel is phenomenal too – best I’ve experienced in a car with boosted steering. In fact, steering feel was the first thing that impressed my wife – she said the car makes you want to take turns of different shapes at different speeds just to see how it feels. I was happy to explain that that’s exactly the point of this car! Summing it up, steering feel and suspension are clearly the biggest improvements over 335, even if comparing against 335 with KW3 coil overs (mine did not have them, but I test-drove one). I am honestly afraid to mod anything in suspension now – it just feels too good.

Brake feel – not much difference, just as good, probably more feedback and tighter feel, but almost the same. Some of the assists are gone, which is the way I prefer it.

Mileage – better than I expected. I expected about 25% worse, but so far I’ve lost about 10-15%. I’ve noticed that M3’s mileage suffers much less from aggressive driving and faster highway speeds than 335i’s mileage, and after 145km/h (90mph) it is almost the same (I’m comparing with xDrive, which is slightly worse than RWD 335). In fact, at this speed my mileage is only 20% worse than my old Mazda 3 had, and it had only 1/3 of M3’s power.

So in the end I am very pleased with the switch. Will post some pics and some tips on importing cars from US in Canadian forum.


Oh, yes, and DCT - it is definitely an improvement over 335's very nice auto transmission (it is very good compared to almost any other car out there, especially when it's in sport mode - it got me converted from 100% manual driver). DCT takes away very little from the engagement of the manual, but adds a lot to compensate for that. But DCT is the only problem I have with the car - the lag is driving me crazy. Scratch that - the lag just annoys me, what makes me crazy is that the fix is available via a simple software update, according to many reports on this forum, but my SA refuses to do that for me... He nods, smiles, offers loaners, takes my SIB printouts and then returns the car saying there is nothing wrong with it... I'll snap if that happens again...

[ilidon]

nice review!

[drwtsn32]

Thanks for the writeup! I have an E90 335xi and plan on moving to an E92 M3. I have been worried a bit about the supposed loss of low end torque.

[GewoW]

Love the analogies - great write up.

[r53s65e90]

Thanks for taking the time to share your viewpoint extensively.

Originally Posted by MaxL

...335's very nice auto transmission (it is very good compared to almost any other car out there, especially when it's in sport mode - it got me converted from 100% manual driver). ...

There is something fundamentally wrong with the sentence above. The auto on the 335 IMO could never convert anybody driving a manual 6 speed to like the sport auto more. I have driven it extensively as a loaner car (never owned one though). It is beyond me how it could make you switch preferences.

...but my SA refuses to do that for me... He nods, smiles, offers loaners, takes my SIB printouts and then returns the car saying there is nothing wrong with it... I'll snap if that happens again...

Find another SA. In my case I told my SA that there is a lag and I asked him to install the latest update. They just did it with no hassle.

[John Tanglewood]

good read. Thanks for the opinion. I'm surprised that you don't eat more gas also!

[MaxL]

Originally Posted by r53s65e90

Thanks for taking the time to share your viewpoint extensively.



There is something fundamentally wrong with the sentence above. The auto on the 335 IMO could never convert anybody driving a manual 6 speed to like the sport auto more. I have driven it extensively as a loaner car (never owned one though). It is beyond me how it could make you switch preferences.

I was not tracking my 335xi much, and in normal driving this was the first auto I tried that did not irritate me, rob me of power or waste gas. Even if it selected a wrong gear, it took me less than a second to correct than in manual mode. I bought 335xi with auto because I was set on getting another, more performance oriented, car. But then just three days into my car ownership I crossed Alps twice, once at night, once in poring rain at AVERAGE speed over 140 km/h (over 85 mph) - Austria -> Italy and then Italy->France->Switzerland->France - and I did not use tonnes - I went all the way to up to glaciers and back down. And it felt natural, and I did not feel a need for manual, so I said - ok, auto is good enough.

All cars will be electrical in few years, so transmissions will become irrelevant anyway

[MaxL]

Originally Posted by drwtsn32

Thanks for the writeup! I have an E90 335xi and plan on moving to an E92 M3. I have been worried a bit about the supposed loss of low end torque.

For me big adjustment was rear wheel drive - I light up rear wheels at low speeds all the time. With AWD it was not a problem.

[Nawaaz]

Very good, informative review.

Glad to know that overall, you are happy with your M3, especially when you had so many other options to choose from.

Also, I'm pleased to know that you appreciate the torque that is always present throughout the entire rev range.

Hopefully the DCT lag won't drive you too crazy. I actually hear that overall, most DCT owners are happy with the transmission itself.

As someone else already mentioned: Since your SA didn't really care enough to help you acquire the latest update to help aid with the DCT lag, please do find another SA.

Enjoy your new M3 on/off the track!

[cap_freez]

I've been hearing about this dct lag for a while... what s it exactly? Is it the takeoff from first gear or is it between gear changes?

[drivendriver]

Originally Posted by rockrboy

I've been hearing about this dct lag for a while... what s it exactly? Is it the takeoff from first gear or is it between gear changes?

In my experience, it's something that happens (sometimes) when you're coasting in 2nd gear, you let the revs drop to ~2K, and then you accelerate. Some people claim that it only happens in D mode, but I've experienced it in S mode (I never use D mode).

In my opinion it has more to do with the torque curve and the throttle mapping than with DCT itself. Having said that, part of the problem is that DCT won't automatically downshift from 2nd to 1st unless you come to a complete stop. Manually downshifting from 2nd to 1st helps.

[GnokGnik]

Nah, 335i >>> M3

[MaxL]

Originally Posted by drivendriver

In my experience, it's something that happens (sometimes) when you're coasting in 2nd gear, you let the revs drop to ~2K, and then you accelerate. Some people claim that it only happens in D mode, but I've experienced it in S mode (I never use D mode).

In my opinion it has more to do with the torque curve and the throttle mapping than with DCT itself. Having said that, part of the problem is that DCT won't automatically downshift from 2nd to 1st unless you come to a complete stop. Manually downshifting from 2nd to 1st helps.

No, you are describing something else. The the real "lag" that people are talking about is this - you decelerate, and then want to accelerate. Press gas pedal, but the car keeps slowing down (revs decline) for 1-2 seconds before surging to accelerate. It's definitely not torque curve, as the revs actually go down no matter how much you push the pedal. Happens in any mode, but more often in 3 and below. I've seen it happen on 2nd gear practically every time and only once on 4th gear.

[ss134]

Great post....i am considering changing my 335i for an M3 in the summer and am to justify to myself that the M3 is worth the extra $20000 it is going to cost me after trading in my year old 335.....the more i read on this forum the more convinced i am that the M3 will be my next car.

[bobbyd1961]

ok im an ex 335xi sedan owner that switched to the M3 sedan last May. i agree with you completely on the looks department. the M3 sedan look is Menacing. i love it. the inside as you said is the same except i do like my trim(carbon fiber) and the stearing wheel is awsome . it really does make a difference. I have the Mdct and the shifter looks awsome. you do know your in a special car as opposed to the 335. so M3 wins the inside also. the engine on the M3 is unbelievable. the sound of that engine is scary. i found i went faster in the 335 (which was a very quick car) because it was quiet. the M3 screams so loud i think a cop a mile away would hear it. so i find myself backing off very quickly. around the 6500 rpm range or through 1 or 2 gears redlined. i find the power button insane and in paddle mode the dam things sounds like when i went to the US grand prix . unbelievable! and very precise with NO lag whatsoever as opposed to D mode.
the different settings are awsome. depending what i want its perfect even with the 19s the comfort setting is great for daily driving but the sport setting is so tight when im on winding roads.
i had 18s on my 335xi however it must have been defective because when i hit a uniform bump the front in the road the front end felt like it was breaking off the car. i would cringe just before hitting a minor bump in the road. was it only my 335? probably i just didnt realize it was specific to my car, i think!. well when the fuel pump went on my 335 and they couldnt fix the dam thing after 5 visits in 6 weeks i decided to trade in for the M3 sedan.
im so happy bmw had a defective fuel pump on my 335. it allowed me to move into a super dream car.

[DASHOCKER]

nice review! I have yet to cross over but who knows

[MaxL]

Originally Posted by bobbyd1961

i had 18s on my 335xi however it must have been defective because when i hit a uniform bump the front in the road the front end felt like it was breaking off the car. i would cringe just before hitting a minor bump in the road. was it only my 335? probably i just didnt realize it was specific to my car, i think!.

I had the same problem before I changed to non-RFT tires. With stock 18" tires, big bumps make front suspension go caboom, as if something exploded under the car. It stopped after I went with regular (nonRFT) tires.

[darklord]

+1, nice review. I went from the 335 to the M3 as well, very well written.

[brava09]

Nice read.

I have also traded in my 335i for the M3!

The M3 pulls harder than 335i in any gear.

My main problem with the 335i was the lack of traction in 1st and 2nd gear...it couldn't put the 300 hp down.

The traction in M3 is phenomenal

[MrHarris]

Great write up. I too notice there isn't as much of a penalty when I step on the throttle more

[Kyoshi71]

I really enjoyed that. Thanks

[Golgothar]

Originally Posted by MaxL

No, you are describing something else. The the real "lag" that people are talking about is this - you decelerate, and then want to accelerate. Press gas pedal, but the car keeps slowing down (revs decline) for 1-2 seconds before surging to accelerate. It's definitely not torque curve, as the revs actually go down no matter how much you push the pedal. Happens in any mode, but more often in 3 and below. I've seen it happen on 2nd gear practically every time and only once on 4th gear.

BINGO!

Back to the OP, i agree 100% with your write up!

I came from a 335i with Dinan tune and the biggest differance hands down is the handling. I have a good friend with a JB tune 335 and any time he asks me if i want to race i simply ask him "By race you mean mash the pedal down and go in a straight line right?"