Should I fight this ticket?

henryyxyu · 05-31-2010, 10:51 PM

Got pulled over today for not having a front plate mount. I explain to the cop that I don't even have my front plates in yet, and that my dealer would install the mount on free of charge when the plates do come in. He tells me that I atleast should have installed the mounts on with the dealer plates. The ticket says it was a violation of section 11713.17(a). Should I try to fight it? or is it a lost cause?

The fine is $300.

I have to rant about this officer though, he was a douche LOL. We went through the usual routine (license blah blah). Then he asked me if my license was a fake license and he 'gave me a chance' to confess if it was before he went to check . I told him that it was illegal to profile me with no basis and that kept him quiet

. After he wrote up my ticket, he started asking me questions like "how much was your car" and "whats the max speed". Like really? What makes him think I would carry out a conversation with him after he wrote me up? -__-

1sikbmr · 05-31-2010, 10:57 PM

$300

crazy cops... I would never carry a conversation with them if their giving me a bs ticket... or any ticket for that matter. Don't get me wrong I like cops I just don't like the power crazed ones.

outie · 05-31-2010, 10:59 PM

Wow, seriously? $300?

11713.17. (a) Following the retail sale or lease of a motor vehicle for which the department issues two license plates, a dealer may not deliver the motor vehicle unless either of the following occurs:

(1) The motor vehicle is equipped with a bracket or other means of securing a front license plate.
(2) The dealer obtains a signed written acknowledgment from the person taking delivery of the motor vehicle acknowledging both of the following:

(A) The person expressly refused installation of a bracket or other means of securing the front license plate.

(B) The person understands that California law requires a license plate to be displayed from and securely fastened to the front of the motor vehicle and that the hardware necessary to securely fasten the front plate is available from the dealer.

(b) A manufacturer or distributor may not sell or distribute in this state a new motor vehicle for which the department issues two license plates, unless that motor vehicle is equipped or provided with a bracket or other means of securing the license plates.

I think you can fight it? "The motor vehicle is equipped with a bracket or other means of securing a front license plate." So, a bracket is *not* required.

kaykay · 05-31-2010, 11:03 PM

What a fucking idiot dickhead pig.

$300 for a no front plate? (I know you said "front plate mount" but I've never heard of that before). I don't think there's a "no front plate MOUNT" citation, you can have a plate on there WITHOUT a mount - it's irrelevant.

A no front plate ticket is $120, or $20 if you go to the DMV or CHP station and show that you put one on there. It's a fix it ticket. I've gotten a bunch. And I still drive without plates or mounts or anything like that.

If you don't have your plates yet, and have a valid dealer temporary registration affixed to your front windshield, then you should 100% fight the ticket. He has absolutely no right whatsoever to write you up if your car is new, with dealer plates and you don't have your damn plates.

I fucking hate stupid ass cops like this.

Next time a traffic pig that barely passed his GED pulls you over instead of dealing with real crime and gives you a hard time without probable cause or a clear violation, tell him to call his supervisor. He is required to by law if you ask for a supervising deputy/officer.

God I hate cops when they do stupid shit like this.

henryyxyu · 05-31-2010, 11:06 PM

I always thought that it was a $10 fix-it ticket. He told me that it was a different situation all together since I never had my mount installed in the first place. I asked him to clarify on this and he told me that if I had a mount, then it would have seemed like I asked the dealership to install it on for me and that I had every intention of putting on my mount the moment I received my license plates. Since I didn't have the mounts installed, It seemed that I didn't intend on installing them on, hence the ticket. I told him that it the car was like that from the dealership but he just told me that I should have known better to have it installed it on the moment I drove off the lot.

kaykay · 05-31-2010, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henryyxyu

I always thought that it was a $10 fix-it ticket. He told me that it was a different situation all together since I never had my mount installed in the first place. I asked him to clarify on this and he told me that if I had a mount, then it would have seemed like I asked the dealership to install it on for me and that I had every intention of putting on my mount the moment I received my license plates. Since I didn't have the mounts installed, It seemed that I didn't intend on installing them on, hence the ticket. I told him that it the car was like that from the dealership but he just told me that I should have known better to have it installed it on the moment I drove off the lot.

Bullshit, take this dick to court, he won't even show.

I've never ever ever heard of a no-front mount ticket.

Like I said, I can velcro a damn plate to the front of my car, it's irrelevant where you have a mount or not. They cannot pull you over or cite you for NO MOUNT. It's the plate!!!!

Damn I wish I was there I would given this guy a serious peace of my mind, respectfully of course

outie · 05-31-2010, 11:12 PM

11713.17(a) doesn't seem to be relevant at all. It does not say you have to drive your car w/ the front plate. He seems to have used the wrong violation tbh.

henryyxyu · 05-31-2010, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaykay

Damn I wish I was there I would given this guy a serious peace of my mind, respectfully of course

Yeah I don't think I could do that

It was my first ticket ever today so I was shit scared hahaha. But yeah, I think I'm going to talk to the chief or supervisor or w/e at the station and complain about this guy, then take it to court.

kaykay · 05-31-2010, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outie

11713.17(a) doesn't seem to be relevant at all. It does not say you have to drive your car w/ the front plate. He seems to have used the wrong violation tbh.

I'm not a lawyer, but this does NOT seem to be a citable violation, it's simply the California Vehicle Code as written. A dealer must abide by this code, as it reads below.

+1000 @ outie.

This dumb ass cop wrote you for something that he can't even write a citation for.

11713.17. (a) Following the retail sale or lease of a motor vehicle for which the department issues two license plates, a dealer may not deliver the motor vehicle unless either of the following occurs:
(1) The motor vehicle is equipped with a bracket or other means of securing a front license plate.

(2) The dealer obtains a signed written acknowledgment from the person taking delivery of the motor vehicle acknowledging both of the following:

(A) The person expressly refused installation of a bracket or other means of securing the front license plate.

(B) The person understands that California law requires a license plate to be displayed from and securely fastened to the front of the motor vehicle and that the hardware necessary to securely fasten the front plate is available from the dealer.

(b) A manufacturer or distributor may not sell or distribute in this state a new motor vehicle for which the department issues two license plates, unless that motor vehicle is equipped or provided with a bracket or other means of securing the license plates.

Added Sec. 1, Ch. 365, Stats. 2004. Effective January 1, 2005.

henryyxyu · 05-31-2010, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaykay

I'm not a lawyer, but this does NOT seem to be a citable violation, it's simply the California Vehicle Code as written. A dealer must abide by this code, as it reads below.

+1000 @ outie.

This dumb ass cop wrote you for something that he can't even write a citation for.

11713.17. (a) Following the retail sale or lease of a motor vehicle for which the department issues two license plates, a dealer may not deliver the motor vehicle unless either of the following occurs:
(1) The motor vehicle is equipped with a bracket or other means of securing a front license plate.

(2) The dealer obtains a signed written acknowledgment from the person taking delivery of the motor vehicle acknowledging both of the following:

(A) The person expressly refused installation of a bracket or other means of securing the front license plate.

(B) The person understands that California law requires a license plate to be displayed from and securely fastened to the front of the motor vehicle and that the hardware necessary to securely fasten the front plate is available from the dealer.

(b) A manufacturer or distributor may not sell or distribute in this state a new motor vehicle for which the department issues two license plates, unless that motor vehicle is equipped or provided with a bracket or other means of securing the license plates.

Added Sec. 1, Ch. 365, Stats. 2004. Effective January 1, 2005.

....So your saying that he wrote me a ticket, but its not even a ticket at the same time (since its not an actual citeble violation)? wtf? This doesn't make sense to me at all...

kaykay · 05-31-2010, 11:25 PM

I'm not an attorney, but it doesn't seem like a citable violation to me.

I've never heard of anyone getting a ticket like this, it's either NO FRONT PLATE or bust.

Fight the ticket, it will either get dismissed or he won't show up in court and it will get dismissed. At the end of the day, your case is that your car is brand new and you don't even have front plates and even if you did, you would never put a bracket on your car. There are 10 other ways of placing a plate on the car without a bracket.

bonedoctor · 05-31-2010, 11:51 PM

This actually is a citable offense. The bail for this offense is $150+court fees. However, the offense is for the dealership that delivered the car to you. Unless, of course, they can prove that they had you sign the declaration.

But then again, it doesn't matter even if you signed the declaration since there is no violation until you actually receive the two plates and fail to put them on.

In the end, be respectful to the judge and be clear in your explanation and it will be dismissed.

bonedoctor · 05-31-2010, 11:53 PM

I'm not an attorney either, but my whole family is. Sheesh.

///M Rakete · 06-01-2010, 12:09 AM

Not very bright. I suspect this isn't the first 11713.17(a) violation he's written but anyone who can read, and the judge can, can see it applies to the dealer and not the driver or registered owner (those are where the OP would have been citable). I wouldn't be surprised if someone, is this a local PD, in their department thought of this as a good way to generate money or simply be more punitive when dealing with a stop for nothing other than a front plate. Really bad form unfortunately.

You should go to court, although you can try the written approach first, but ask for a summary dismissal as the vehicle code section referenced does not apply to the driver (operator) or registered owner.

kaykay · 06-01-2010, 12:13 AM

^ yeah, I agree 10000%

It's the DEALER who is liable for this vehicle code violation, not the driver/owner. Unless of course you signed a waiver, which of course, you didn't.

Just another sleazy way of generating more revenue for the department. Cops like this make me sick.

jml · 06-01-2010, 12:22 AM

Trick...well maybe it will help...fock, it's secret, who knows who trolls the forums. PM me.

bonedoctor · 06-01-2010, 12:23 AM

Even if you signed a waiver. It still doesn't apply to you.

It only lets the dealership off the hook.

I have plenty of police and sheriff friends. None of them would ever be directed to cite 11713.17.

The intent of the law was actually to take some of the burden OFF of the vehicle owner and make it LESS likely for them to be cited.

tailgate1234 · 06-01-2010, 12:34 AM

Fight the ticket - the law applies to the dealer, not you. Do a "Trial By Declaration" and if you lose you can still go to court.

Silvertige · 06-01-2010, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tailgate1234

Fight the ticket - the law applies to the dealer, not you. Do a "Trial By Declaration" and if you lose you can still go to court.

+1 on that. Fight the ticket by mail first, and then go to court if you lose. Cops get paid overtime to show up at court... however, all they get is additional paperwork if you do trial by declaration.

WillC310 · 06-01-2010, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertige

+1 on that. Fight the ticket by mail first, and then go to court if you lose. Cops get paid overtime to show up at court... however, all they get is additional paperwork if you do trial by declaration.

They actually get paid to write up responses.. and their responses are literally just filling out a form. Given how broke CA is right now, they are pretty much pushing all the tickets they can.

Cast and point: I got a BS ticket a few months back for failure to yield to an emergency vehicle (fire truck with lights and siren on). I was STOPPED at a red light, behind 2 other cars. The light changes, the 2 cars ahead of me go, I go, then I get lit up. Cop says there was a fire truck and I just cut them off. I said, eh?! Where was that? I was stopped and the other people in front of me went too.. regardless it was basically my word against hers. I did the whole trial by declaration thing.. she replied, said there was a truck, etc. So I'm screwed.. take it to court.. she shows up. As I'm waiting in court, there was a guy who's right to a speedy trial was all f-ed up -- bad. They kept rescheduling him, he even went to court 1 time and they didn't even have him on the docket. So he says that he's guaranteed the right to a speedy trial and that right has been withheld because they kept screwing up. Judge says, yeah, you're right but you're still guilty, pay the fine. Nice eh? That's our non-elected CA officials for you.

Back to the OP: yes, I think you can and should fight it. That's a BS ticket.

05-31-2010, 10:51 PM	#1
henryyxyu Captain 109 Rep 636 Posts Drives: YXZ Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: CA iTrader: (1)	Should I fight this ticket? Got pulled over today for not having a front plate mount. I explain to the cop that I don't even have my front plates in yet, and that my dealer would install the mount on free of charge when the plates do come in. He tells me that I atleast should have installed the mounts on with the dealer plates. The ticket says it was a violation of section 11713.17(a). Should I try to fight it? or is it a lost cause? The fine is $300. I have to rant about this officer though, he was a douche LOL. We went through the usual routine (license blah blah). Then he asked me if my license was a fake license and he 'gave me a chance' to confess if it was before he went to check . I told him that it was illegal to profile me with no basis and that kept him quiet . After he wrote up my ticket, he started asking me questions like "how much was your car" and "whats the max speed". Like really? What makes him think I would carry out a conversation with him after he wrote me up? -__-
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05-31-2010, 10:57 PM	#2
1sikbmr Brigadier General 145 Rep 3,329 Posts Drives: F80 M3 6MT Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: New York iTrader: (16)	$300 crazy cops... I would never carry a conversation with them if their giving me a bs ticket... or any ticket for that matter. Don't get me wrong I like cops I just don't like the power crazed ones. __________________ F80 ///M3 6MT Avus Blue ZCP
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05-31-2010, 10:59 PM	#3
outie Lieutenant 92 Rep 567 Posts Drives: 2022 Porsche Taycan GTS Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2022 Tesla Model X [0.00] 2023 McLaren 720S S ... [0.00] 2022 Porsche Taycan ... [0.00]	Wow, seriously? $300? 11713.17. (a) Following the retail sale or lease of a motor vehicle for which the department issues two license plates, a dealer may not deliver the motor vehicle unless either of the following occurs: (1) The motor vehicle is equipped with a bracket or other means of securing a front license plate. (2) The dealer obtains a signed written acknowledgment from the person taking delivery of the motor vehicle acknowledging both of the following: (A) The person expressly refused installation of a bracket or other means of securing the front license plate. (B) The person understands that California law requires a license plate to be displayed from and securely fastened to the front of the motor vehicle and that the hardware necessary to securely fasten the front plate is available from the dealer. (b) A manufacturer or distributor may not sell or distribute in this state a new motor vehicle for which the department issues two license plates, unless that motor vehicle is equipped or provided with a bracket or other means of securing the license plates. I think you can fight it? "The motor vehicle is equipped with a bracket or other means of securing a front license plate." So, a bracket is not required.
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05-31-2010, 11:03 PM	#4
kaykay Lieutenant Colonel 90 Rep 1,769 Posts Drives: 2011 E92 M3 ZCP Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 E93 328i Conve ... [9.50] 2011 E92 M3 ZCP [8.66] 2008 550i Sport [10.00]	What a fucking idiot dickhead pig. $300 for a no front plate? (I know you said "front plate mount" but I've never heard of that before). I don't think there's a "no front plate MOUNT" citation, you can have a plate on there WITHOUT a mount - it's irrelevant. A no front plate ticket is $120, or $20 if you go to the DMV or CHP station and show that you put one on there. It's a fix it ticket. I've gotten a bunch. And I still drive without plates or mounts or anything like that. If you don't have your plates yet, and have a valid dealer temporary registration affixed to your front windshield, then you should 100% fight the ticket. He has absolutely no right whatsoever to write you up if your car is new, with dealer plates and you don't have your damn plates. I fucking hate stupid ass cops like this. Next time a traffic pig that barely passed his GED pulls you over instead of dealing with real crime and gives you a hard time without probable cause or a clear violation, tell him to call his supervisor. He is required to by law if you ask for a supervising deputy/officer. God I hate cops when they do stupid shit like this. __________________ '12 CLS550 Palladium Silver - loaded '11 E92 M3 ZCP - SG/B-EXT/CF, M-DCT, loaded '11 E93 328i, BSM over Saddle Brown, sport, loaded '08 550i M-Sport, Carbon Black (Gone but not forgotten), '06 W211 E55 AMG (Gone, miss this animal),'01 E39 540i Sport
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05-31-2010, 11:06 PM	#5
henryyxyu Captain 109 Rep 636 Posts Drives: YXZ Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: CA iTrader: (1)	I always thought that it was a $10 fix-it ticket. He told me that it was a different situation all together since I never had my mount installed in the first place. I asked him to clarify on this and he told me that if I had a mount, then it would have seemed like I asked the dealership to install it on for me and that I had every intention of putting on my mount the moment I received my license plates. Since I didn't have the mounts installed, It seemed that I didn't intend on installing them on, hence the ticket. I told him that it the car was like that from the dealership but he just told me that I should have known better to have it installed it on the moment I drove off the lot.
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05-31-2010, 11:12 PM	#7
outie Lieutenant 92 Rep 567 Posts Drives: 2022 Porsche Taycan GTS Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2022 Tesla Model X [0.00] 2023 McLaren 720S S ... [0.00] 2022 Porsche Taycan ... [0.00]	11713.17(a) doesn't seem to be relevant at all. It does not say you have to drive your car w/ the front plate. He seems to have used the wrong violation tbh.
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05-31-2010, 11:25 PM	#11
kaykay Lieutenant Colonel 90 Rep 1,769 Posts Drives: 2011 E92 M3 ZCP Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 E93 328i Conve ... [9.50] 2011 E92 M3 ZCP [8.66] 2008 550i Sport [10.00]	I'm not an attorney, but it doesn't seem like a citable violation to me. I've never heard of anyone getting a ticket like this, it's either NO FRONT PLATE or bust. Fight the ticket, it will either get dismissed or he won't show up in court and it will get dismissed. At the end of the day, your case is that your car is brand new and you don't even have front plates and even if you did, you would never put a bracket on your car. There are 10 other ways of placing a plate on the car without a bracket. __________________ '12 CLS550 Palladium Silver - loaded '11 E92 M3 ZCP - SG/B-EXT/CF, M-DCT, loaded '11 E93 328i, BSM over Saddle Brown, sport, loaded '08 550i M-Sport, Carbon Black (Gone but not forgotten), '06 W211 E55 AMG (Gone, miss this animal),'01 E39 540i Sport
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05-31-2010, 11:51 PM	#12
bonedoctor Dreamer 2 Rep 77 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 M3 SG Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Yorba Linda, California iTrader: (0)	This actually is a citable offense. The bail for this offense is $150+court fees. However, the offense is for the dealership that delivered the car to you. Unless, of course, they can prove that they had you sign the declaration. But then again, it doesn't matter even if you signed the declaration since there is no violation until you actually receive the two plates and fail to put them on. In the end, be respectful to the judge and be clear in your explanation and it will be dismissed.
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05-31-2010, 11:53 PM	#13
bonedoctor Dreamer 2 Rep 77 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 M3 SG Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Yorba Linda, California iTrader: (0)	I'm not an attorney either, but my whole family is. Sheesh.
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06-01-2010, 12:09 AM	#14
///M Rakete Rocket Scientist 33 Rep 948 Posts Drives: BMW 2018 X3 M40i Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Utah iTrader: (4)	Not very bright. I suspect this isn't the first 11713.17(a) violation he's written but anyone who can read, and the judge can, can see it applies to the dealer and not the driver or registered owner (those are where the OP would have been citable). I wouldn't be surprised if someone, is this a local PD, in their department thought of this as a good way to generate money or simply be more punitive when dealing with a stop for nothing other than a front plate. Really bad form unfortunately. You should go to court, although you can try the written approach first, but ask for a summary dismissal as the vehicle code section referenced does not apply to the driver (operator) or registered owner. __________________ 2015 BMW M5 Sedan Returned to BMW at end of lease.
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06-01-2010, 12:13 AM	#15
kaykay Lieutenant Colonel 90 Rep 1,769 Posts Drives: 2011 E92 M3 ZCP Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 E93 328i Conve ... [9.50] 2011 E92 M3 ZCP [8.66] 2008 550i Sport [10.00]	^ yeah, I agree 10000% It's the DEALER who is liable for this vehicle code violation, not the driver/owner. Unless of course you signed a waiver, which of course, you didn't. Just another sleazy way of generating more revenue for the department. Cops like this make me sick. __________________ '12 CLS550 Palladium Silver - loaded '11 E92 M3 ZCP - SG/B-EXT/CF, M-DCT, loaded '11 E93 328i, BSM over Saddle Brown, sport, loaded '08 550i M-Sport, Carbon Black (Gone but not forgotten), '06 W211 E55 AMG (Gone, miss this animal),'01 E39 540i Sport
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06-01-2010, 12:22 AM	#16
jml Major 128 Rep 1,144 Posts Drives: X5M, GT3RS, GT4 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (3)	Trick...well maybe it will help...fock, it's secret, who knows who trolls the forums. PM me.
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06-01-2010, 12:23 AM	#17
bonedoctor Dreamer 2 Rep 77 Posts Drives: 2011 E90 M3 SG Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Yorba Linda, California iTrader: (0)	Even if you signed a waiver. It still doesn't apply to you. It only lets the dealership off the hook. I have plenty of police and sheriff friends. None of them would ever be directed to cite 11713.17. The intent of the law was actually to take some of the burden OFF of the vehicle owner and make it LESS likely for them to be cited.
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06-01-2010, 12:34 AM	#18
tailgate1234 Private First Class 15 Rep 173 Posts Drives: 2008 M3 Sedan Silverstone II Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: SF Bay Area iTrader: (0)	Fight the ticket - the law applies to the dealer, not you. Do a "Trial By Declaration" and if you lose you can still go to court.
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