M3 Steering vs. stock tire sizes

[ImStig]

I am a newbie to the forum, and I welcome your advise in helping me decide on the stock wheel size on a E92 M3 (contemplating ED in Spring 2011).

Has BMW reprogrammed the Sevrotronic on the E92 M3 thus far? Main publications during launch in 2007 and other posts in 2008-2009 have commented that the E92 M3's steering feel is unfortunately the weaker point for the car, and I would like to see if BMW has fixed this, or if the stock tire size (launch cars had 18 inch wheels) may be a contributing factor? Have any one experience steering differences between these 2 stock wheel combos?

On a slightly different note, how evident is the difference on ride and noise comfort? Is the 19 inch tires produces more noise? If I get this car, this will also serve as a DD.

[Georgeair]

I think you'll find little, if any, difference in noise. The tires, tread pattern and compound are the same. It's really not that bad anyway. Mine (w/19"s) is not my DD, but I certainly wouldn't hesitate to use it as one for that reason. I assume the 18's may be a tad more compliant, but with EDC in Comfort I don't see how anyone could complain. Unless they really should have bought a Lincoln Town Car.....

My recollection from test drives of the TL in '03 was the steering was an overboosted mess, compounded by the wrong wheels driving it. Ended up with a G35, then another. You'll be so tickled with the M3 steering and ride you'll never look back!

[cichlid]

Originally Posted by ImStig

I am a newbie to the forum, and I welcome your advise in helping me decide on the stock wheel size on a E92 M3 (contemplating ED in Spring 2011).

Has BMW reprogrammed the Sevrotronic on the E92 M3 thus far? Main publications during launch in 2007 and other posts in 2008-2009 have commented that the E92 M3's steering feel is unfortunately the weaker point for the car, and I would like to see if BMW has fixed this, or if the stock tire size (launch cars had 18 inch wheels) may be a contributing factor? Have any one experience steering differences between these 2 stock wheel combos?

On a slightly different note, how evident is the difference on ride and noise comfort? Is the 19 inch tires produces more noise? If I get this car, this will also serve as a DD.

Fo my money, the steering is great on my 2011 sedan with stock 18's. Perfect boost for low speed driving. Tightens up nicely at higher speed, good road feel. Can't comment on track, autocross driving, or speeds greater than 90 mph.

Tire noise? The car feels and sounds like a magic carpet on a nice road surface. New asphalt... beautiful. Worn out freeway like we have here... cabin noise from the tires can be quite tiresome <sorry>. It will drown out reasonable volume on the radio.

Tire noise can wear you out on a long highway trip if the road is lousy.

Probably this is just an unfortunate trade off for this type of tire. I'll have to give this some consideration when my PS2's wear out

[Richbot]

It's a little bit overboosted for someone who's used to a manual steering rack. Other than that, it's perfect.

The PS2's are loud, but they're a lot better than any other high performance summer tire I've tried. I think the noise is more from the wide tires and the relatively stiff subframe bushings.

[jdgamble]

I doubt you could really tell a difference in ride, steering, or tire noise between the 18's and 19's. I don't think the sidewall height is much of an issue with the PS2's because the sidewall is very hard in both... a half inch extra won't make much of a difference. As far as steering goes, I really like the M3's. I've heard so so reviews, but I think it's very communicative.

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by cichlid

I'll have to give this some consideration when my PS2's wear out

Man, if you find ANYTHING other than summer tires in stock 19 sizes, please let me know ; I'd gladly replace them too. But among summers, PS2s are probable the best choice for noise and ride, as noted.

OP, are you worried about steering feel compared to an '04 TL? It's like asking if Miranda Kerr or Megan Fox is better looking than Snooki. Anything will, let alone those 2 . If you were driving a Lotus or a Porsche I'd be more worried about that. The M3 is going to feel MILES better. Take care.

[double eagle]

The PS2s are much quieter than the Goodyear Eagle F1s were on my '06 Vette.

[gr8000]

Originally Posted by Richbot

The PS2's are loud, but they're a lot better than any other high performance summer tire I've tried.

Which other tyres have you tried? I am about to change mine and I'd be interested to know of any good (tested) alternatives as oposed to PS2s.

Originally Posted by jdgamble

I doubt you could really tell a difference in ride, steering, or tire noise between the 18's and 19's. I don't think the sidewall height is much of an issue with the PS2's because the sidewall is very hard in both... a half inch extra won't make much of a difference. As far as steering goes, I really like the M3's. I've heard so so reviews, but I think it's very communicative.

If you mean that the sidewall of PS2's is very hard, I disagree and actually this is probably the first time I hear this (PS2s are known to have soft sidewalls). Or do I misunderstand you?

Originally Posted by elp_jc

Man, if you find ANYTHING other than summer tires in stock 19 sizes, please let me know ; I'd gladly replace them too. But among summers, PS2s are probable the best choice for noise and ride, as noted.

I am seriously considering Bridgestone RE11s which are available in 19' stock dimensions.

[ImStig]

Georgeair - thanks for the advise. Yeah, the TL's steering is one of the major letdown in my current ride. It's slightly better than the 03, but it's not linear in its weighting.

Originally Posted by Georgeair

I think you'll find little, if any, difference in noise. The tires, tread pattern and compound are the same. It's really not that bad anyway. Mine (w/19"s) is not my DD, but I certainly wouldn't hesitate to use it as one for that reason. I assume the 18's may be a tad more compliant, but with EDC in Comfort I don't see how anyone could complain. Unless they really should have bought a Lincoln Town Car.....

My recollection from test drives of the TL in '03 was the steering was an overboosted mess, compounded by the wrong wheels driving it. Ended up with a G35, then another. You'll be so tickled with the M3 steering and ride you'll never look back!

Cichlid - Great to hear about your opinion on the 18s, and thanks for the information on noise. I might have to think about the enhanced sound package to drown the tire noise out Btw, I think you brought up a good point here - are the any steering feel difference between E90 M3 or the M92 M3s? Mechanically, I would imagine they are the same system and tuning perhaps? Can any one confirm this?

Originally Posted by cichlid

Fo my money, the steering is great on my 2011 sedan with stock 18's. Perfect boost for low speed driving. Tightens up nicely at higher speed, good road feel. Can't comment on track, autocross driving, or speeds greater than 90 mph.

Tire noise? The car feels and sounds like a magic carpet on a nice road surface. New asphalt... beautiful. Worn out freeway like we have here... cabin noise from the tires can be quite tiresome <sorry>. It will drown out reasonable volume on the radio.

Tire noise can wear you out on a long highway trip if the road is lousy.

Probably this is just an unfortunate trade off for this type of tire. I'll have to give this some consideration when my PS2's wear out

elp_jc - To me, a great part of the driving experience is the steering feel, and you are right - the 04 TL's steering is a complete, ugly mess. It's fairly stable at highway speeds, but the feel is artificial. That's why, though, that I am trying to find the factors that influences the steering on the E92 to maximize that driving experience. (and I look for to that!)

Originally Posted by elp_jc

Man, if you find ANYTHING other than summer tires in stock 19 sizes, please let me know ; I'd gladly replace them too. But among summers, PS2s are probable the best choice for noise and ride, as noted.

OP, are you worried about steering feel compared to an '04 TL? It's like asking if Miranda Kerr or Megan Fox is better looking than Snooki. Anything will, let alone those 2 . If you were driving a Lotus or a Porsche I'd be more worried about that. The M3 is going to feel MILES better. Take care.

After some research, I also noticed that ZCP package has a revised and quicker steering. Does anyone has any comparison experience with E92 ZCP and without?

[cichlid]

"Cichlid - Great to hear about your opinion on the 18s, and thanks for the information on noise. I might have to think about the enhanced sound package to drown the tire noise out Btw, I think you brought up a good point here - are the any steering feel difference between E90 M3 or the M92 M3s? Mechanically, I would imagine they are the same system and tuning perhaps? Can any one confirm this?"

No personal experience, I guess the E92 is lighter, and less top heavy with the carbon roof. Might have noticeably different handling. At this price point you'd want to test drive. I did not mention earlier that the servotronic has 2 settings. The sport+ is noticeably different at speed. For casual driving it's too much work for me, but I like it better on a back road twisty.


"After some research, I also noticed that ZCP package has a revised and quicker steering. Does anyone has any comparison experience with E92 ZCP and without?[/QUOTE]

I think The ZCP has Lowered suspension also which might factor in.

[///M Rakete]

Originally Posted by ImStig

After some research, I also noticed that ZCP package has a revised and quicker steering. Does anyone has any comparison experience with E92 ZCP and without?

This was true on the E46 (previous 3-Series) M3 ZCP package. It is NOT true on the E9x ZCP package. On the current M3 the steering is the same whether ZCP-equipped or not.

[EJ_92606]

I've read many reviews that praise the steering and I find it pretty incredible...the only downside is that it is a little bit overboosted at low speeds IMO. at parking lot speeds...let's say under 20, it's great, but over that I would prefer less boost...but it firms up nicely over about 45 or so. Ride quality of mine with 19s is way better than my 335 with 18's...the suspension is completely different and it rides great.

[ImStig]

Rakete - Thanks for the info on the difference. Curious though -do you know if BMW has retuned the steering since it first came out?

Originally Posted by ///M Rakete

This was true on the E46 (previous 3-Series) M3 ZCP package. It is NOT true on the E9x ZCP package. On the current M3 the steering is the same whether ZCP-equipped or not.

EJ_92606 - Thanks for the input. Do you have ZCP, or the "regular" 19?

Originally Posted by EJ_92606

I've read many reviews that praise the steering and I find it pretty incredible...the only downside is that it is a little bit overboosted at low speeds IMO. at parking lot speeds...let's say under 20, it's great, but over that I would prefer less boost...but it firms up nicely over about 45 or so. Ride quality of mine with 19s is way better than my 335 with 18's...the suspension is completely different and it rides great.

Cichlid - Thanks - good points on the changes due to lowered suspension and less weight.

Originally Posted by cichlid

No personal experience, I guess the E92 is lighter, and less top heavy with the carbon roof. Might have noticeably different handling. At this price point you'd want to test drive. I did not mention earlier that the servotronic has 2 settings. The sport+ is noticeably different at speed. For casual driving it's too much work for me, but I like it better on a back road twisty.


"After some research, I also noticed that ZCP package has a revised and quicker steering. Does anyone has any comparison experience with E92 ZCP and without?

I think The ZCP has Lowered suspension also which might factor in.[/QUOTE]

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by gr8000

If you mean that the sidewall of PS2's is very hard, I disagree and actually this is probably the first time I hear this (PS2s are known to have soft sidewalls). Or do I misunderstand you?

You're right... my bad. I had read that and stated the opposite. I guess the assessment is the same though... not a huge ride difference between 18 and 19.

Oddly though, in my driving, the tires actually feel pretty stable, and they are still in very good shape after some hard cornering. They don't feel like or appear to be rolling over much.

[ImStig]

Quick question Jdgamble - which tire size do you run, and do you have ZCP?

Originally Posted by jdgamble

You're right... my bad. I had read that and stated the opposite. I guess the assessment is the same though... not a huge ride difference between 18 and 19.

Oddly though, in my driving, the tires actually feel pretty stable, and they are still in very good shape after some hard cornering. They don't feel like or appear to be rolling over much.

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by ImStig

Quick question Jdgamble - which tire size do you run, and do you have ZCP?

I have the stock 18s. But I've driven a car with the 19's (not very aggressively) and I couldn't really tell much difference. And no ZCP.

[///M Rakete]

Originally Posted by ImStig

Rakete - Thanks for the info on the difference. Curious though -do you know if BMW has retuned the steering since it first came out?

Not that I am aware of. I can't find any bulletins relating to E9x M3 steering either.

[ImStig]

From the reviews and forum members, it sounds like ZCP has amazing steering - boosted for under 40 but firming up afterwards. Here is a bit a disappointment though - the reviews for ZCP has so far said that the firm is a bit firmer, though none of the professional reviews specifics the suspension setting that made the ride harsher.

I have read and saw some forum members said that ZCP in Comfort is actually quite good - as good or better than 335i with M-Sport. Can more ZCP owners share their experience?

[Crazy Bimmer]

Originally Posted by ///M Rakete

This was true on the E46 (previous 3-Series) M3 ZCP package. It is NOT true on the E9x ZCP package. On the current M3 the steering is the same whether ZCP-equipped or not.

Yep.

Go test drive one and you can see if its to your liking. Although i grew to love the steering in time, during the test drive i wasnt a huge fan. But had heard many say with m-button pressed the steering is amazing. They were right.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by ImStig

Georgeair - thanks for the advise. Yeah, the TL's steering is one of the major letdown in my current ride. It's slightly better than the 03, but it's not linear in its weighting.



Cichlid - Great to hear about your opinion on the 18s, and thanks for the information on noise. I might have to think about the enhanced sound package to drown the tire noise out Btw, I think you brought up a good point here - are the any steering feel difference between E90 M3 or the M92 M3s? Mechanically, I would imagine they are the same system and tuning perhaps? Can any one confirm this?


elp_jc - To me, a great part of the driving experience is the steering feel, and you are right - the 04 TL's steering is a complete, ugly mess. It's fairly stable at highway speeds, but the feel is artificial. That's why, though, that I am trying to find the factors that influences the steering on the E92 to maximize that driving experience. (and I look for to that!)


After some research, I also noticed that ZCP package has a revised and quicker steering. Does anyone has any comparison experience with E92 ZCP and without?

I have a ZCP and the issue or main complaint of the steering is at low speeds. Once you are above 40mph or so the steering is actually beautifully weighted, below this speed it is somewhat anemic with too much boost but still has some feel in the wheel. Whats weird its overboosted yet feels like the ratio is dull, but at speed the steering wheel becomes alive and feels great.

I just got out of a 997 which IMHO has the best steering in the world, your hands feel like they are on the tierods but even the 997 has faults. The car (in stock form) bounces around in corners and doesn't ever really feel settled. While the M3 takes a stance and just hunkers down..the M3 also forgives a tad more if you choose the wrong line while the 997 will push. Thats why with the 997 you go in a little slower but you can get on the gas alot sooner.

Dave

[ImStig]

I will certainly need to - but just as elp said, almost anything is better than the TL's feel

Originally Posted by Crazy Bimmer

Yep.

Go test drive one and you can see if its to your liking. Although i grew to love the steering in time, during the test drive i wasnt a huge fan. But had heard many say with m-button pressed the steering is amazing. They were right.

[ImStig]

Actually, a 911 is on my list to experience sometime in life - glad to have your detailed comparison here!

I also read from another post that you through the ZCP in comfort is better than PASM? Just curious - have you also compared against non-ZCP, and is that Comfort mode rides about the same as ZCP?

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

I have a ZCP and the issue or main complaint of the steering is at low speeds. Once you are above 40mph or so the steering is actually beautifully weighted, below this speed it is somewhat anemic with too much boost but still has some feel in the wheel. Whats weird its overboosted yet feels like the ratio is dull, but at speed the steering wheel becomes alive and feels great.

I just got out of a 997 which IMHO has the best steering in the world, your hands feel like they are on the tierods but even the 997 has faults. The car (in stock form) bounces around in corners and doesn't ever really feel settled. While the M3 takes a stance and just hunkers down..the M3 also forgives a tad more if you choose the wrong line while the 997 will push. Thats why with the 997 you go in a little slower but you can get on the gas alot sooner.

Dave