The M3 GTS BMW Should Have Built.

[rzm3]

I bet many are quite disappointed with GTS's 7:48 'ring time. The fact that the GTS is slower around Hockenheim than the a-workx M3 - a car that basically has bolt-on mods (KW CS, Akrapovic Evo, PSCup) - is simply embarrassing.

I am no M engineer but have certainly played with this car for many years. Here's my 2 cents to make a 7:40 GTS.

4.6L Stoker Engine: 500 hp
Dinan can do it and offer a warranty, why can't BMW? GTS's S65B44 is only 30hp more than the S65B40, a gain attainable with just race cats and a tune on the stock engine. The Nurburgring has many long straights and the GTS can certainly use more power.

Carbon Fiber Doors and Plastic Rear/Side Windows
All these parts are readily available from the M3 GT4. They can easily cut another 100+ lb (Ericsson's CF doors alone cut 67 lbs).

Wider Wheels and Tires
The only thing between you and the road are your tires. For a relatively heavy car you need more rubber.

Most people on this forum easily squeeze 9.5" width w/ 265 tires up front, and 10.5" width w/ 295/305 tires in the back. How about 18" wheels and cut another few pounds?

And forget about the fancy PZero Corsa. Michelin Cups are plenty!

The Result: 500 hp, 3400 lb (GTS: 3538)
More power, less weight, and wider rubber. These readily available modifications and parts can easily propel the GTS into the 7:40 territory... with just a bit more of investment.

Your thoughts?

[PunjabiM3]

For the price I would much rather buy a Porsche GT3 over a M3 GTS, this coming from someone that has owned 3 M3's (one currently) and a 997 C2S.

[chili cheese]

Right. Hands down you gotta go with the GT3 RS for the money.

[rzm3]

Guys, I am not asking which car has better value.

I am talking about how BMW should have designed the GTS with nearly the same amount of investment to live up to its targeted class.

[FStop7]

I think they should have gone with something closer to the CSL.

Remove back seats, go with light front seats (with an OEM look), carbon fiber door panels, reduced sound deadening, slightly more power, etc. Make it smooth and factory like, rather than tacked on looking like the GTS is.

[sehrgut]

Yea for the money you shell out for a GTS I'd say that the list you had makes way more sense. 4.4L is not much of a step for all that extra work and effort. But hands down, who wouldn't want a GTS as it is now?

[luckistryke]

if they did build it, will ppl pay north of $150K+ for a mod 3 series? GT3rs for me please

[bobbyd1961]

i hope the next generation is undr 4 seconds top speed of 200 with 190 limiter and 740 nurburgring. all for 70 grand

[BB_cornelius]

I absolutely agree. For the money GTS owners have paid, there should be way more performance being squeezed out of that thing. After all, it is car meant for the track, I'm sure there could be a lot more weight savings. And it could use a bit more power.

[piloto]

I just don't see the point of this car. You're starting with a sedan/coupe architecture that has weight built into it that you're really not going to get rid of. While it would cost a lot more to develop, I feel BMW would have been better served to have made a lightweight, mid enigned car, using the S65, as a halo car for BMW and to highlight this gem of an engine.

[MrHarris]

I'm with you rldzhao. The whole car doesn't make sense but your description is how they should have built it. A bolt on regular 4.0L M3 beating the GTS is very embarrassing. They should have SC'd the damn thing!

[datbimmerdoe]

couldn't agree with you more, op, but i still want one. imo if you can afford to own a gts you can definitely afford to make it lighter, install a supercharger (i know that's besides the point) and call it a day. case closed.

btw, no matter what bmw builds people will buy... aren't all the gts' allocated?

[MMMorish]

Spot on, rldzhao. The GTS should have BMW's "show off" car, instead it's proof that they simply rushed the product to market to compete against cars like the GT3 RS. A big "FAIL" for BMW in my opinion. GT3 RS is still king!

[Trier Germany]

Originally Posted by PunjabiM3

For the price I would much rather buy a Porsche GT3 over a M3 GTS, this coming from someone that has owned 3 M3's (one currently) and a 997 C2S.

Most definitely GT3 is way better value for performance. Plus i'm no fan of everyone haveing the same exact color Lame!

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by rldzhao

Your thoughts?

I think you nailed it. The 4.4L stroker is great and all, but it probably ate up a ton of the R&D budget for the car and simply did not pay off. Others have done it with much better results. And, yes, the lack of a better weight loss program for the car was one thing that surprised me from the beginning. Overall they needed to bring a lot more of the GT4 to the production car.

BTW, how much is a GT4? And what would its ring time be? I know its not street legal, but it probably could be with a different exhaust.

[joseph328]

M3 GTS was built as a Street Legal race/track car.
For only track/race use we have GT4.

But as of M3 GTS , i believe it is an utter fail . Too much money for nothing. Those "mods" are worth not more than 10k Euros ,and they ask 5 times more for it than stock M3 (Euro prices)

I'd still say , get M3 , get it race prepped for 30k $ and beat the crap out of GTS..

[rzm3]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I think you nailed it. The 4.4L stroker is great and all, but it probably ate up a ton of the R&D budget for the car and simply did not pay off. Others have done it with much better results. And, yes, the lack of a better weight loss program for the car was one thing that surprised me from the beginning. Overall they needed to bring a lot more of the GT4 to the production car.

BTW, how much is a GT4? And what would its ring time be? I know its not street legal, but it probably could be with a different exhaust.

121,500 Euros (excl. VAT)

[aus]

How much is a GT3 and GT3-RS in Euro?

[JAJ]

Let me offer a slightly different viewpoint on this. The GT4 is a real race car and it has a roll cage, fuel cell, etc. However, it's not legal for road use and anyone buying one signs a waiver that releases BMW from all liability. The underlying message is "we make no representations that this vehicle is safe - are we clear on that?"

I suspect that changing all the GTS body panels and greenhouse glass to plastic, as used in the GT4, would have required a new safety certification, possibly including a crash-test. Without the safety analysis and testing, BMW's liability in the event of death or injury would be enormous. Furthermore, in the absence of the roll cage it's hard to predict whether it would have even passed. In any case, the cost of the safety certification would have likely meant millions of dollars of expense that would have to be borne by the buyer.

[TK-421]

Originally Posted by FStop7

I think they should have gone with something closer to the CSL.

Remove back seats, go with light front seats (with an OEM look), carbon fiber door panels, reduced sound deadening, slightly more power, etc. Make it smooth and factory like, rather than tacked on looking like the GTS is.

The CSL still had rear seats, just different ones. But I agree with you and just about everyone else

[rzm3]

Originally Posted by JAJ

Let me offer a slightly different viewpoint on this. The GT4 is a real race car and it has a roll cage, fuel cell, etc. However, it's not legal for road use and anyone buying one signs a waiver that releases BMW from all liability. The underlying message is "we make no representations that this vehicle is safe - are we clear on that?"

I suspect that changing all the GTS body panels and greenhouse glass to plastic, as used in the GT4, would have required a new safety certification, possibly including a crash-test. Without the safety analysis and testing, BMW's liability in the event of death or injury would be enormous. Furthermore, in the absence of the roll cage it's hard to predict whether it would have even passed. In any case, the cost of the safety certification would have likely meant millions of dollars of expense that would have to be borne by the buyer.

I certainly thought about the safety aspect, but I think that the door shell and windows are not really structural parts that protect the occupant during a collision. If anything having plastic windows would actually be safer as they do not shatter as easily as glass.

Of course, I am not an expert on crash test certifications in Europe, but from watching Top Gear, it seems that anything with wheels can go on the street

[duk]

They car plain and simple is just too heavy! mid 3xxx lbs is just too much.