New M3 target?

[I Wanna go Fast!]

So, M division said that the goal was for the new E92 M3 was to beat the 911 around the ring. And it did.

Now, what is the goal?

Beat the CTS-V?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by I Wanna go Fast!

Now, what is the goal?

To dumb down the car thereby increasing its appeal and boosting its sales.

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

To dumb down the car thereby increasing its appeal and boosting its sales.

Sad but true IMO. Delete any strenuous activity that might give owners a heart attack, like a manual transmission , and add absolutely essential crap like auto high-beam headlights (check!), auto wipers (check!), auto park (possibly, like on the 5), radar cruise control so owners can text and read 'safely' (possible too), etc. Sad to see the direction cars are going .

[008]

Beating a 911 around the ring was a stated goal of BMW for the E9X M3? Which 911?

[I Wanna go Fast!]

Originally Posted by 008

Beating a 911 around the ring was a stated goal of BMW for the E9X M3? Which 911?

A Porsche 911 With Four Doors
Consider this. The benchmark car for the new 2008 BMW M3 has not been the Audi RS4 or Mercedes C63 AMG, but instead the Porsche 911.

Simple logic: If it's good enough to beat the 911, then it will be better than everything else. Gerhard Richter, vice president of BMW M Power, says, "M3 stands for our philosophy; it best describes the M character."

The E92 M3 might be based loosely on the standard 3 Series coupe, but 80 percent of the parts are bespoke. Most of all, it replaces the inline-6 with an all-new 4.0-liter V8. Richter notes, "Our targets were higher revs, more horsepower, yet lower fuel consumption."

Complete article:

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/m3/200...08-bmw-m3.html

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by I Wanna go Fast!

So, M division said that the goal was for the new E92 M3 was to beat the 911 around the ring. And it did.

Now, what is the goal?

Beat the CTS-V?

Trouble is...it still didn't beat the 997 around the ring...the older 997.1S ran a 7:59 while the M3 ran 8:05. Someone posted the ZCP car ran a 8:00 flat.

Dave

[bobbyd1961]

Originally Posted by I Wanna go Fast!

So, M division said that the goal was for the new E92 M3 was to beat the 911 around the ring. And it did.

Now, what is the goal?

Beat the CTS-V?

cts-v? it disposed of that at the caddilac ctsv challange.. please get up to date. plus the ctsv is a gm which will fall apart after 50000 miles

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by 008

Beating a 911 around the ring was a stated goal of BMW for the E9X M3? Which 911?

Exactly...wasn't the 997, at least not the S version and up.

Dave

[008]

Well the article is a little vague on what the "beating" entails to be sure but they certainly didn't achieve their goal if beating it in lap time around the 'ring" was the intent. It's even farther off if you consider the homologation car ie the GT3.

[RayC]

I'm looking to take down a F-22.


Go big or go home.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by bobbyd1961

cts-v? it disposed of that at the caddilac ctsv challange.. please get up to date. plus the ctsv is a gm which will fall apart after 50000 miles

I was quite sure that the CTS-V beat up on the M3 (and everything else) at the challenge. Am I wrong?

I do remember the young man in his M3 beating GM's then-chief of marketing, but that guy (Lutz) was way slower than the hotshoes in the same car. Plus, Lutz is 112 years old. Or maybe in his 70s. Whatever. He's never been considered a hot shoe. Just a very hot and talented marketing guy.

Again, am I wrong?

[NYCMCBM3]

Originally Posted by RayC

I'm looking to take down a F-22.


Go big or go home.

[signes]

You are correct. CTS-V haters say it was staged (which it was to some degree) and that the M3 would be faster (which it isn't, sub-8 minute 'ring time IIRC.)

[eisenb11]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

I was quite sure that the CTS-V beat up on the M3 (and everything else) at the challenge. Am I wrong?

I do remember the young man in his M3 beating GM's then-chief of marketing, but that guy (Lutz) was way slower than the hotshoes in the same car. Plus, Lutz is 112 years old. Or maybe in his 70s. Whatever. He's never been considered a hot shoe. Just a very hot and talented marketing guy.

Again, am I wrong?

From what I understand, it was believed that the CTS-V used in that challenge was tuned. I heard that that car was performing significantly better than what was usually expected of a CTS-V.

Also they thought about disqualifying the M3 that beat Lutz because the kid driving it took one of those weekend race courses. In the end, they ended up beating him, anyways, by bringing on some drivers with much more racing experience.

I don't think that this was really a fair event.

[Batman122]

Not that I'm a huge fan of the CTS-V, but it is faster by a little bit it would seem. I test drove one for the second time the other day without the salesman in the car, and I'll just say I was very happy to drive away in my M3!

[Batman122]

"Our targets were higher revs, more horsepower, yet lower fuel consumption."


This is interesting, they got the higher revs, more horsepower right, but better fuel consumption? I guess 2 out of 3 isn't bad.

[donovan]

Originally Posted by elp_jc

Sad but true IMO. Delete any strenuous activity that might give owners a heart attack, like a manual transmission , and add absolutely essential crap like auto high-beam headlights (check!), auto wipers (check!), auto park (possibly, like on the 5), radar cruise control so owners can text and read 'safely' (possible too), etc. Sad to see the direction cars are going .

WHOA, RADAR CRUISE CONTROL!

that sir is amazing ...u have to admit.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by eisenb11

From what I understand, it was believed that the CTS-V used in that challenge was tuned. I heard that that car was performing significantly better than what was usually expected of a CTS-V.

Who believed it, and what was the reason? It seems clear that the CTS-V is a bit quicker in the twisties, and of course quite a bit quicker in a straight line.

Proof points:

That 7:59 at the 'Ring was with a roll cage and aftermarket seats. Cadillac said that the car weighed more with the roll cage than a standard car (and I believe them), but at a guess, the car might lap the 'Ring a hair quicker in that condition compared with stock. On the other hand, Heinricy is not a 'Ring expert and has never raced professionally (although he did in fact do some SCCA amateur events when he was a young man). He was quoted as saying he picked the automatic car because he wasn't familiar enough with the track to know where the downshift points were, and so was safer with the auto, even though a stick car at those average speeds would be quicker. In addition, from the film you can see that he drove fairly conservatively, given the mission.

The M3 time of 8:05 was accomplished with Michelin PSC+ sneakers, which Walter Rohrl (he of Porsche test driver fame) says are worth about five seconds at the 'Ring. The newest competition package car may be a fair bit quicker, but based on those Hockenheim results, I wouldn't bet on it. A tenth of a second quicker than the previous M3's best time (on PSC+ sneakers)?

Add it up. We just don't know, but it appears that the newest, best M3 street package will still come up short.

Originally Posted by eisenb11

Also they thought about disqualifying the M3 that beat Lutz because the kid driving it took one of those weekend race courses. In the end, they ended up beating him, anyways, by bringing on some drivers with much more racing experience.

"They thought about disqualifying the M3 that beat Lutz"? Show me how you know this please - and by the way, who really cares? The kid raced.

As mentioned, Heinricy is not a racing driver. He definitely has skills, but so did the kid.

Originally Posted by eisenb11

I don't think that this was really a fair event.

Maybe so, maybe not, but you can bet you would've heard about it if factory entrants from other manufacturers were somehow dropped from the eligibility list.

[008]

This is off topic and I don't even know about the contest you all are referring to but, John Heinricy is one of the most accomplished "amateur" racers in history. He has had factory level support and testing budgets being employed as a GM engineer that don't quite qualify him as an amateur in my mind. He has won more SCCA national runoffs than just about anyone. I think he is over 10 national championships now.

[graider]

Originally Posted by Batman122

"Our targets were higher revs, more horsepower, yet lower fuel consumption."


This is interesting, they got the higher revs, more horsepower right, but better fuel consumption? I guess 2 out of 3 isn't bad.

haha, my thought exactly. it still isn't bad compare to the competition though, rs4, c63 amg are worst. only the isf gets better gas mileage.

[graider]

Originally Posted by I Wanna go Fast!

So, M division said that the goal was for the new E92 M3 was to beat the 911 around the ring. And it did.

Now, what is the goal?

Beat the CTS-V?

where did you get this from, source?

i think if the target was base 911, then the new m3 should still target the future base 911 in 2012. combine the feel of the 911 and the practicality of the m3 and you get a very good combo.

[nick3753]

I thought the new target was the Mustang GT....jk...sort of.