Dealership horror stories and Bad sales departments:

njdrive · 05-15-2013, 01:39 PM

Dealership horror stories aka Bad sales departments:

Due to our past experiences, many of us are in at a place in our lives where we can afford high-end cars and are skilled in the art of negotiation. I think this qualifies many of us to be able to spot shady deals and service that is not up to standards. As this is forum is a sharing and learning platform (at least it is for me) we should start a thread about less then desirable sales departments / salesmen so that others will avoid these dealerships and not have to endure poor service or shady sales tactics.

In follow-up to the post where the OP was asking if he was cheap or was the salesman being an a$$, it reminded me about a dealer I dealt with in my search for my e92.

I saw the advertisement on cars.com so I called to see if the car was still available and tried to see how much they were willing to negotiate. In the end, I learned the price listed on cars.com was not the asking price but the price if I qualified for all three of their incentives. Here is a quote from their more information page:

“PLEASE CALL FOR MORE INFORMATION! PRICE INCLUDES OR MUST QUALIFY FOR COLLEGE GRAD REBATE OF $500.00, CUSTOMER LOYALTY REBATE OF $500.00, MILITARY MEMBERSHIP REBATE OF 795.00, AND FINANCE REBATE!!!”

I graduated college years ago so I don’t qualify for their recent college grad rebate. So add $500 on the listed price. “Recent “ meant within the past year.

I’ve never purchased a car from them before so I’m not a “loyal customer” therefore I don’t qualify for their CUSTOMER LOYALTY REBATE OF $500.00. Add $500 to the price.

Never been in the Military and I don’t plan to Finance with them so add $795.00.

In the end a car that listed at $47,998 will really cost over $50,000.

Here is the link http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...nal&listType=1

FVM3 · 05-15-2013, 03:45 PM

Got 2-3 dealers told me that : We dont give a penny off on any M cars when I was looking for my m3

Longboarder · 05-15-2013, 03:59 PM

it's because racecar. um, and the laws of supply and demand. if a dealer knows they can sell an M car at full list price in a short amount of time, then why would they sell it to you (or anyone) at a discount?

Kanweezy · 05-15-2013, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longboarder

it's because racecar. um, and the laws of supply and demand. if they know they are going to sell it at full list price in a short amount of time, then why would they sell it at a discount?

No car is and should be sold at asking price, no car

kscarrol · 05-15-2013, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanweezy

No car is and should be sold at asking price, no car

Agreed but there are some people with more money than smarts out there and they will simply take what the dealer tells them.

You also have to realize that the informed folks on this forum are very much in the minority when it comes to educating themselves about their cars and how to find and negotiate with dealers.

njdrive · 05-15-2013, 04:50 PM

"the informed folks on this forum are very much in the minority when it comes to educating themselves about their cars and how to find and negotiate with dealers."

Agreed!

F0RG3D · 05-15-2013, 05:00 PM

Yeah...read the listing, and that's shady as f***!

anderson616 · 05-15-2013, 05:45 PM

my thought is, im not saying i can't afford the car, and i know as a company, they need to earn money from the car too, but the thing is, they have to be within a reasonable price, unlike they sell the car for $53,xxx, and i dont know how the car end up $66,xxx OTD, and I think as a car sales, he at least can answer me how does that numbers came from. But after an hour talk about the car, the only question he can really answered me was, his name, and what car is that, other than that, the only answer i got from him is, i dont know or i have to ask my manager, but after he asked his manager, his answer seems to be even more confused on the price. So, i end up left the dealer.

kscarrol · 05-15-2013, 06:02 PM

Right, most sales people are uneducated tools who would try to steal your grandmother's last dollar

, but do keep in mind that the issue is at the dealer level and not the BMW corporate level. At least if you by company you mean BMW!

BMW sells the cars to dealers at a set price with a tacked on MSRP. What the dealers sell the cars for over their cost to buy them wholesale from BMW is their profit and like most businesses they are trying to maximize their profit. From the dealer itself to the the sales person who's commission is determined by the profit made on the sale, everyone is trying to find the highest price that they can get and close the sale.

If by company you mean the dealer then that is a different story. Many sales people don't even know the basics of the cars they are trying to sell much less understand the financial particulars. And unfortunately there are many dealers, usually in smaller markets where there are no competing BMW dealers, who simply tell customers that MSRP is what they sell for. Many customers don't want to drive 90+ miles to the nearest dealer and try their luck. And they certainly don't know about Steven Thomas BMW and the other folks on this forum who will give them a great deal!

Longboarder · 05-15-2013, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanweezy

No car is and should be sold at asking price, no car

Many high-end new cars are sold at asking price.

Carmax used cars are sold at asking price as well.

Kanweezy · 05-15-2013, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanweezy

No car is and should be sold at asking price, no car

Many high-end new cars are sold at asking price.

Carmax used cars are sold at asking price as well.

That is not true at all. I personally know

jeff4598 · 05-15-2013, 07:04 PM

Give best offer and cell #.
Shake hand. Smile.
Leave.
Wait.
They count on you being anxious about getting"your" car.

baba louey · 05-15-2013, 08:08 PM

I've always viewed front line car salesmen as people who's main jobs are to get some one to make an offer on a car and to take the offer to the sales manager who may or may not approve it. They can try to get you to pay more but if you never make the offer then they fail at their job. Also if the saleman/manager knows that you are ready to buy today, then they will not want you to leave the store without buying a car from them.

i001947 · 05-15-2013, 08:31 PM

There's always room for negotiation. If not walk away. Just be patient. I walked away from three Dealers within 15 miles from my home to eventually buy from a dealer 45 miles away. Why? My dealer was respectful, best deal and showed lots patients.

enigma01 · 05-15-2013, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longboarder

it's because racecar. um, and the laws of supply and demand. if a dealer knows they can sell an M car at full list price in a short amount of time, then why would they sell it to you (or anyone) at a discount?

I agree it's finding an equilibrium dictated by supply and demand, but I am not sure if I understand what "racecar" has anything to do with it? A "racecar" doesn't inherently have a higher demand (or shorter supply) than the other groups of cars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanweezy

No car is and should be sold at asking price, no car

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanweezy

That is not true at all. I personally know

No car? What are you smoking? There are plenty of cars that have been sold at the asking price (when demand outstrips supply) and will always be. How would you "personally know" what everyone has paid for his/her cars?

Longboarder · 05-15-2013, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enigma01

I agree it's finding an equilibrium dictated by supply and demand, but I am not sure if I understand what "racecar" has anything to do with it? A "racecar" doesn't inherently have a higher demand (or shorter supply) than the other groups of cars.

No car? What are you smoking? There are plenty of cars that have been sold at the asking price (when demand outstrips supply) and will always be. How would you "personally know" what everyone has paid for his/her cars?

He doesn't know...he's either messing with us or an idiot if serious.

The earlier comment "because racecar"...seriously you haven't heard that here before? It's been played out for quite some time but at one point it was funny as hell to a lot of people.

Scrappy · 05-15-2013, 11:11 PM

I have one I live in FL and basically live in shorts and flip flops when I'm not at work. I'm in my 30's but look a lot younger anyway I took my M3 to get an oil change and on the way home stopped at MB to see if the C63 coupe had been released yet this was a few years ago. So I walk in and 2 sales guys look at me and ignore me so I wait and end up having to go to the receptionist to ask for help as this is going on one of the douches notices my freshly washed and waxed car in the parking lot and immediately asks some old dude if that is his car. He says no so I mention that its mine and thanks for bring a dick when I walked in. Some other guy comes and helps me and they didn't have any coupes but he offered me a test drive which I declined but I did stop by the sales managers office on my way out and let's just say he wasn't happy. I hate people that judge on appearance or are just dicks.

FVM3 · 05-16-2013, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longboarder

it's because racecar. um, and the laws of supply and demand. if a dealer knows they can sell an M car at full list price in a short amount of time, then why would they sell it to you (or anyone) at a discount?

I always told by the sale: This is a hot car and will be gone even sold at listed price. I find out that its not that easy to sell when Im trying to get rid of it. Both on M and AMG.

FVM3 · 05-16-2013, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Many high-end new cars are sold at asking price.

Carmax used cars are sold at asking price as well.

Not on Lambo

FVM3 · 05-16-2013, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrappy

I have one I live in FL and basically live in shorts and flip flops when I'm not at work. I'm in my 30's but look a lot younger anyway I took my M3 to get an oil change and on the way home stopped at MB to see if the C63 coupe had been released yet this was a few years ago. So I walk in and 2 sales guys look at me and ignore me so I wait and end up having to go to the receptionist to ask for help as this is going on one of the douches notices my freshly washed and waxed car in the parking lot and immediately asks some old dude if that is his car. He says no so I mention that its mine and thanks for bring a dick when I walked in. Some other guy comes and helps me and they didn't have any coupes but he offered me a test drive which I declined but I did stop by the sales managers office on my way out and let's just say he wasn't happy. I hate people that judge on appearance or are just dicks.

+1.

Darth One · 05-16-2013, 05:52 AM

these are "horror stories"?

KIS · 05-16-2013, 08:13 AM

My god, so far no horror stories in this thread. Let me give you a horror story. I went into a Ferrari dealer and while waiting for someone to approach me I was blind sided, then bound and gagged. Before I regained consciousness they renditioned me to Russia and dropped me in a Trabant dealership. Top that!

05-15-2013, 01:39 PM	#1
njdrive First Lieutenant 98 Rep 301 Posts Drives: e92 ZCP Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Earth iTrader: (0)	Dealership horror stories and Bad sales departments: Dealership horror stories aka Bad sales departments: Due to our past experiences, many of us are in at a place in our lives where we can afford high-end cars and are skilled in the art of negotiation. I think this qualifies many of us to be able to spot shady deals and service that is not up to standards. As this is forum is a sharing and learning platform (at least it is for me) we should start a thread about less then desirable sales departments / salesmen so that others will avoid these dealerships and not have to endure poor service or shady sales tactics. In follow-up to the post where the OP was asking if he was cheap or was the salesman being an a$$, it reminded me about a dealer I dealt with in my search for my e92. I saw the advertisement on cars.com so I called to see if the car was still available and tried to see how much they were willing to negotiate. In the end, I learned the price listed on cars.com was not the asking price but the price if I qualified for all three of their incentives. Here is a quote from their more information page: “PLEASE CALL FOR MORE INFORMATION! PRICE INCLUDES OR MUST QUALIFY FOR COLLEGE GRAD REBATE OF $500.00, CUSTOMER LOYALTY REBATE OF $500.00, MILITARY MEMBERSHIP REBATE OF 795.00, AND FINANCE REBATE!!!” I graduated college years ago so I don’t qualify for their recent college grad rebate. So add $500 on the listed price. “Recent “ meant within the past year. I’ve never purchased a car from them before so I’m not a “loyal customer” therefore I don’t qualify for their CUSTOMER LOYALTY REBATE OF $500.00. Add $500 to the price. Never been in the Military and I don’t plan to Finance with them so add $795.00. In the end a car that listed at $47,998 will really cost over $50,000. Here is the link http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...nal&listType=1
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05-15-2013, 03:45 PM	#2
FVM3 Major General 273 Rep 5,751 Posts Drives: e92 m3, f30 328i Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (2)	Got 2-3 dealers told me that : We dont give a penny off on any M cars when I was looking for my m3
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05-15-2013, 03:59 PM	#3
Longboarder Major General 3436 Rep 6,771 Posts Drives: 2016 BMW i8 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Monarch Beach iTrader: (1) Garage List 2012 BMW e92 M3 [0.00] 2021 BMW X5M [10.00] 2015 Porsche 991 Tu ... [10.00] 2015 Porsche 991 GT3 [10.00]	it's because racecar. um, and the laws of supply and demand. if a dealer knows they can sell an M car at full list price in a short amount of time, then why would they sell it to you (or anyone) at a discount? __________________ Current BMWs: 2022 X5 40i, 2016 X5 50i 2015 Porsche 991 Turbo S 1979 Porsche 911 Turbo (930) a couple others IG: longboarder949; YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
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05-15-2013, 04:50 PM	#6
njdrive First Lieutenant 98 Rep 301 Posts Drives: e92 ZCP Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Earth iTrader: (0)	"the informed folks on this forum are very much in the minority when it comes to educating themselves about their cars and how to find and negotiate with dealers." Agreed!
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05-15-2013, 05:00 PM	#7
F0RG3D DR1V3R 7 Rep 55 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: San Diego, CA iTrader: (1)	Yeah...read the listing, and that's shady as f*! __________________ 2008 E92 \| Interlagos Blue \| RD Sport Exhaust \| Macht Schnell X-Pipe \| MS Power Pulley \| Eventuri Intake \| Bavsound \| ESS ECU Tuning \| RD Sport Springs \| Forgestar F14**
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05-15-2013, 05:45 PM	#8
anderson616 Enlisted Member 2 Rep 35 Posts Drives: 2015 435i, 2019 440i Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Rowland Heights CA iTrader: (0)	my thought is, im not saying i can't afford the car, and i know as a company, they need to earn money from the car too, but the thing is, they have to be within a reasonable price, unlike they sell the car for $53,xxx, and i dont know how the car end up $66,xxx OTD, and I think as a car sales, he at least can answer me how does that numbers came from. But after an hour talk about the car, the only question he can really answered me was, his name, and what car is that, other than that, the only answer i got from him is, i dont know or i have to ask my manager, but after he asked his manager, his answer seems to be even more confused on the price. So, i end up left the dealer.
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05-15-2013, 06:02 PM	#9
kscarrol Brigadier General 8948 Rep 4,107 Posts Drives: 2021 X3 M40i, 1974 2002 Tii Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Greenville, SC iTrader: (0)	Right, most sales people are uneducated tools who would try to steal your grandmother's last dollar , but do keep in mind that the issue is at the dealer level and not the BMW corporate level. At least if you by company you mean BMW! BMW sells the cars to dealers at a set price with a tacked on MSRP. What the dealers sell the cars for over their cost to buy them wholesale from BMW is their profit and like most businesses they are trying to maximize their profit. From the dealer itself to the the sales person who's commission is determined by the profit made on the sale, everyone is trying to find the highest price that they can get and close the sale. If by company you mean the dealer then that is a different story. Many sales people don't even know the basics of the cars they are trying to sell much less understand the financial particulars. And unfortunately there are many dealers, usually in smaller markets where there are no competing BMW dealers, who simply tell customers that MSRP is what they sell for. Many customers don't want to drive 90+ miles to the nearest dealer and try their luck. And they certainly don't know about Steven Thomas BMW and the other folks on this forum who will give them a great deal! __________________ 2021 X3 M40i 1974 2002tii, Inka, 5 sp manual BMWCCA # 327475
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05-15-2013, 07:04 PM	#12
jeff4598 Captain 172 Rep 676 Posts Drives: 2019 M2C HS, DCT, much Dinan Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: new jersey iTrader: (0)	Give best offer and cell #. Shake hand. Smile. Leave. Wait. They count on you being anxious about getting"your" car.
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05-15-2013, 08:08 PM	#13
baba louey First Lieutenant 64 Rep 303 Posts Drives: 2012 M3 6sp ZCP Mel red coupe Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: calgary iTrader: (0)	I've always viewed front line car salesmen as people who's main jobs are to get some one to make an offer on a car and to take the offer to the sales manager who may or may not approve it. They can try to get you to pay more but if you never make the offer then they fail at their job. Also if the saleman/manager knows that you are ready to buy today, then they will not want you to leave the store without buying a car from them.
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05-15-2013, 08:31 PM	#14
i001947 Captain 27 Rep 688 Posts Drives: '13 E92 M3 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: US iTrader: (0)	There's always room for negotiation. If not walk away. Just be patient. I walked away from three Dealers within 15 miles from my home to eventually buy from a dealer 45 miles away. Why? My dealer was respectful, best deal and showed lots patients.
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05-15-2013, 11:11 PM	#17
Scrappy Private First Class 24 Rep 175 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Jacksonville, FL iTrader: (0)	I have one I live in FL and basically live in shorts and flip flops when I'm not at work. I'm in my 30's but look a lot younger anyway I took my M3 to get an oil change and on the way home stopped at MB to see if the C63 coupe had been released yet this was a few years ago. So I walk in and 2 sales guys look at me and ignore me so I wait and end up having to go to the receptionist to ask for help as this is going on one of the douches notices my freshly washed and waxed car in the parking lot and immediately asks some old dude if that is his car. He says no so I mention that its mine and thanks for bring a dick when I walked in. Some other guy comes and helps me and they didn't have any coupes but he offered me a test drive which I declined but I did stop by the sales managers office on my way out and let's just say he wasn't happy. I hate people that judge on appearance or are just dicks.
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05-16-2013, 05:52 AM	#21
Darth One drunk poster 6614 Rep 3,649 Posts Drives: M4 GTS \| E46 M3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: FL iTrader: (0)	these are "horror stories"?
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05-16-2013, 08:13 AM	#22
KIS Lieutenant 39 Rep 543 Posts Drives: 2015 Jaguar F Type R Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Houston, Texas iTrader: (0)	My god, so far no horror stories in this thread. Let me give you a horror story. I went into a Ferrari dealer and while waiting for someone to approach me I was blind sided, then bound and gagged. Before I regained consciousness they renditioned me to Russia and dropped me in a Trabant dealership. Top that!
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