Now to the real question.....how much faster are the new cars?

[ss134]

I have an order in for the F80 M3 for July delivery. After owning 2 E90 M3s I think the new car is big improvement visually over the E9x and of course it will be faster and I hope handle and steer better as well.

Up until now I have been so pre occupied with trying to choose colours ( not easy) and spec that I haven't thought that much about how fast the car will be.

I know the 0-60 time is quicker and it's at least 10 seconds quicker around the nurburgring but I have some questions in my mind:

Now I know M cars are not about straight line speed, however!.. ......how fast do you think these cars will be ? C63, E60M5 ? Obviously around a track there is no doubt the M3 will be quicker but now that we have lost the high revving V8 and turned to the dark side i am hoping that they will have more straight line grunt to compensate- I'm sure it will but how much more is the question.

I live in Germany and spend a fair bit of my time on the autobahn, the E9x M3 was a monster at speeds above 100 mph . Weight and torque at this speed count for little, it's all about power and with the power difference being very small I think the e9x with the S65 would be a close call - will let you know in the summer after collection!

Will BMW have underrated the engine?
Will the steering be better than E9x?

Please post up your thoughts on anything performance related - sick of thinking about colours!!

[tdizzle]

I'd hazard an assumption that above 100mph they'd be pretty close with the F80 edging a bit. Let's assume it's weight advantage counts for something and there is a slight aero advantage too. It'll also have more power across the powerband but near redline things will even up.

I'm sure the modeling experts would be able to answer more scientifically accurate than my hopes and dreams guess.

[Sedan_Clan]

I'm sure the difference between the F8X and the E9X will be eerily similar to the difference between an F10 M5 and an E60 M5.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by tdizzle

I'd hazard an assumption that above 100mph they'd be pretty close with the F80 edging a bit. Let's assume it's weight advantage counts for something and there is a slight aero advantage too. It'll also have more power across the powerband but near redline things will even up.

I'm sure the modeling experts would be able to answer more scientifically accurate than my hopes and dreams guess.

According to the press release threads, the F8X are at an aerodynamique dissadvantage vs the E9X. Apparantly the Cd of the new cars is at 0.34 vs 0.31 for the E9X. Further, the F8X also have a greater frontal area compared to the E9X.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

According to the press release threads, the F8X are at an aerodynamique dissadvantage vs the E9X. Apparantly the Cd of the new cars is at 0.34 vs 0.31 for the E9X. Further, the F8X also have a greater frontal area compared to the E9X.

That's true. I would imagine that the trade off for the new cars being less aerodynamic is greater downforce for the track.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by ss134

That's true but I would imagine that the trade off for the new cars is greater downforce?

My guess is that the greater cooling needs of the S55 are a non-negligible contributor to the increased Cd.

[CanAutM3]

There have been multiple discussions in various threads on this exact topic with very good simulations. Search a little and you will find the discussions.

The big question to be able to answers your question, is finding out by how much BMW is under rating the S55 (if at all, but I suspect it is by a good 20-30hp).

[Powaup]

I would really like to know the quarter mile times of the F8x and trap speed. Talking to my colleague the other day we realized the 0-60 time of 4.1 is identical to a 2009 F430, which is interesting but not really a fair comparison. Nonetheless its crazy how quick cars are getting and I would'nt be surprised if the F8x could keep up with an F430 in the 1/4 mile

[ss134]

Originally Posted by Powaup

I would really like to know the quarter mile times of the F8x and trap speed. Talking to my colleague the other day we realized the 0-60 time of 4.1 is identical to a 2009 F430, which is interesting but not really a fair comparison. Nonetheless its crazy how quick cars are getting and I would'nt be surprised if the F8x could keep up with an F430 in the 1/4 mile

4.1 sec is the 0-62mph time. The 0-60 time is 3.9 sec with DCT!

[mikelowery]

Originally Posted by Powaup

I would really like to know the quarter mile times of the F8x and trap speed. Talking to my colleague the other day we realized the 0-60 time of 4.1 is identical to a 2009 F430, which is interesting but not really a fair comparison. Nonetheless its crazy how quick cars are getting and I would'nt be surprised if the F8x could keep up with an F430 in the 1/4 mile

i mean its not that hard to get fast 0-60 times anymore. advances in launch control, tires are really good, power is good etc.

what i look at is how fast a car feels on the road. while moving from 40-80 MPH.

0-60 is not really all that important if you ask me. unless at a drag

[Boss330]

You can compare the stated 0-1000m times as that will give you an idea over a longer distance

[ss134]

Originally Posted by Boss330

You can compare the stated 0-1000m times as that will give you an idea over a longer distance

That's a much better performance yardstick and gives a better representation of a cars performance. Problem is nobody knows the times of the new cars to compare.

[catpat8000]

Originally Posted by ss134

I live in Germany and spend a fair bit of my time on the autobahn, the E9x M3 was a monster at speeds above 100 mph . Weight and torque at this speed count for little, it's all about power and with the power difference being very small I think the e9x with the S65 would be a close call - will let you know in the summer after collection!

I have to disagree with you. The M3 above 100 mph feels like a stone to me. It is *very* far from being a monster. I would say it's more like a slightly alarming mammal. The M5, E63, now those cars are monsters above 100 mph.

You are correct that it is all about power to weight. Comparing the two M cars (F80 and E90) I'd guess at a roll-on from 100 mph it'll be pretty close with the nod going to the F80. The F80 weighs less and has more power (perhaps a lot more) but the E90 has better aero and it starts to count at speeds that high.

Pat

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by ss134

That's a much better performance yardstick and gives a better representation of a cars performance. Problem is nobody knows the times of the new cars to compare.

The 0-1000m times for the F8x have been known for quite some time allready...

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=923203

22,2s for MT 6 and 21,9s for DCT

[ss134]

Originally Posted by catpat8000

I have to disagree with you. The M3 above 100 mph feels like a stone to me. It is *very* far from being a monster. I would say it's more like a slightly alarming mammal. The M5, E63, now those cars are monsters above 100 mph.

You are correct that it is all about power to weight. Comparing the two M cars (F80 and E90) I'd guess at a roll-on from 100 mph it'll be pretty close with the nod going to the F80. The F80 weighs less and has more power (perhaps a lot more) but the E90 has better aero and it starts to count at speeds that high.

Pat

The E9x M3 was in its element above 100mph- maybe saying it's a monster
Is a bit strong but this is where the S65 shone at the top end. I drive my car a lot on the autobahn and friends cars that can match the M3 at lower speeds in gear always fell behind once into triple figures. Plenty of races on Gtboard.com with roll from 50kph showing a car pull on the M3 only for it to claw it's way back at higher speeds. One that springs to mind is the Audi R8 4.2.

By the way' slightly alarming mammal' brought a smile to my face

[solstice]

High speed is mostly about power to wind resistance and the two cars should be pretty equal here. The F80 has a little more power and the E9X has a little aero advantage. I would also expect the F80 to run signficantly hotter when kept at full power for extended periods and maybe lose some juice vs the E9X due to that if you are going pedal to the metal through Germany lucky enough to avoid any STAU.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by Boss330

The 0-1000m times for the F8x have been known for quite some time allready...

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=923203

22,2s for MT 6 and 21,9s for DCT

That's faster than E60M5 and e92 M3 GTS .......it's F10M5 pace?
Those figures if true are incredible. Ill believe it when I see an impartial test.

[LSM]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

There have been multiple discussions in various threads on this exact topic with very good simulations. Search a little and you will find the discussions.

The big question to be able to answers your question, is finding out by how much BMW is under rating the S55 (if at all, but I suspect it is by a good 20-30hp).

Probably even more....

[s4play]

I'm very excited as well to be able to experience the launch car when dealer gets it. They promised me a phone call and first chance to drive it so we'll see. On the open roads it should be fun to see how it feels but then again OHP are notorious for speeders!

Recently I did drive a F10 M5 from norcal to socal and on the open I5, it's uncanny and a bit scary how the car can mask it's speed. I don't mean the car is un-stable but quite the contrary it's so quiet and matter of fact that doing 100 feel like 40 in my s2000. Quite a few times I had to catch myself approaching 120 before the car even feels somewhat going fast. Put the car in Sport mode and the exhaust rumble brings a huge smile. I can only hope the new M3 has this feature for the exhaust tone. The Panamera GTS has this feature and you really do NOT need an aftermarket exhaust with that button on tap.

[Powaup]

Originally Posted by mikelowery

i mean its not that hard to get fast 0-60 times anymore. advances in launch control, tires are really good, power is good etc.

what i look at is how fast a car feels on the road. while moving from 40-80 MPH.

0-60 is not really all that important if you ask me. unless at a drag

Yea I wish 40-80mph times were more readily available

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by catpat8000

You are correct that it is all about power to weight. Comparing the two M cars (F80 and E90) I'd guess at a roll-on from 100 mph it'll be pretty close with the nod going to the F80. The F80 weighs less and has more power (perhaps a lot more) but the E90 has better aero and it starts to count at speeds that high.

At high speeds its more about power and drag. In fact mass has no effect on top speed, that is purely determined by aerodynamic drag (plus other losses such as drivetrain and tires) and power. Now of course two identical cars except one with less weight will still out accelerate the other at high speeds.

Also, don't forget that the current car is almost for sure underrated 20-30 hp. I'm pretty confident it wouldn't be able to get the 0-1000m times it that have been published with its stated power level.

[Tonymiabmw]

To me I love the TT V8 in my X5m lots of torque, Nice to have more torque. I always feel that the E90 lacked torque. Its going to be a welcome change thats for sure!