1st time in 10 yrs with no BMW, but there is no substitute...

jdogg2000 · 03-09-2014, 05:35 PM

With sadness, I said goodbye yesterday to my E92 M3. Having gone from a 2004 330i ZHP to a 2007 335i (European Delivery) to a 2008 E93 M3 to a 2011 Z4 to a 2011 E92 M3, I was nostalgic on my way to sell the car...

I'd been contemplating trying something a little different for quite some time now and I finally decided to get something a little less practical as I have a different daily driver. This is what I ended up with:

IMG_20140308_100712627_HDR

I haven't had the new car too long now but I have some initial impressions. There are definitely some things I like better about each (pretty well elucidated by others but I concur on the following)...

M3:
- I like the engine better. Engine revs so freely & sounds better.
- Exhaust note is better. I had the OEM exhaust mod on my M3 and I have the Porsche Sport Exhaust on the 911 and the M3's sound is way louder and way more menacing (I'm working on a mod for my 911 that will improve things).
- I like the transmission better. DCT shifts faster and seems to have more grin-inducing throttle blips (I'm still experimenting with the PDK but even on Sports Plus it didn't seem to be as fun or as quick to downshift). On "auto" mode, the transmissions seem pretty close.
- Suspension definitely more comfortable around town, yet still sporty. I drove the M3 at the M school and the handling is extremely impressive for its size and weight.
- Upgraded audio is better than the upgraded audio in the Porsche (don't have the Burmester though!)
- Seats are better (equally supportive but M3's are more comfortable). I have the $4,000+ adaptive sport seats in the 911 too!
- Love the look. Aggressive.

911:
- I like the driving position more. Car is so much lower to the ground and you feel like you're in a true sports car. At the same time, visibility is excellent.
- Love how planted and solid the car feels. Like a solid chunk of granite.
- Love the steering feel. Feels more nimble than the M3, you definitely feel the 300 lbs of less weight.
- Suspension is stiff but not as uncomfortable as I thought it might be.
- Feels significantly faster (but probably isn't). My Carrera GTS has the powerkit, which gives an extra 23hp than the Carrera S (to 408 hp) and a little improved torque curve, but realistically I know its probably not that much quicker than the M3. Definitely feels faster though.
- Brakes are bloody fantastic
- Love the look. Classic.

Overall, I would say that these are both AMAZING cars and neither is hugely superior to the other in any way. They just occupy slightly different niches depending on what part of the practicality/sportiness spectrum you are looking for... perhaps I'll be back to BMW someday, but for now I'm going to enjoy what Porsche has to offer...

IMG_20140308_100548719_HDR

///mawana · 03-09-2014, 06:09 PM

Your images don't work,...but in any case, you go through your bmw's like underwear to really enjoy them! I doubt you will feel a difference if you get something different. What are you getting next?

Prince_of_Persia · 03-09-2014, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ///mawana

Your images don't work,...but in any case, you go through your bmw's like underwear to really enjoy them! I doubt you will feel a difference if you get something different. What are you getting next?

+1. I am so attached to my M3, no way I sell her. She is here to stay for a long long time.

jdogg2000 · 03-09-2014, 06:44 PM

Sorry, I'm having issues with my post... I never finished what I was trying to say! Will edit...

Vic311 · 03-09-2014, 07:48 PM

It's hard to feel bad for you with a mint Porsche GTS sitting right there

Shoney41 · 03-09-2014, 07:54 PM

OP, congrats on the new ride. The GTS is a great car and was on my list of cars I was considering. I appreciate you outlining the pro's/con's of the 911 and your M3. My takeaway: for the money, the M3 is the way to go for most of us!!

tinman831 · 03-09-2014, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdogg2000

Sorry, I'm having issues with my post... I never finished what I was trying to say! Will edit...

When I first read your post, all you had was the first sentence. I was like "okay..... thanks for sharing?" Now I see the picture. Great upgrade. The new car looks beautiful.

lsmkr01 · 03-09-2014, 08:35 PM

The GTS is my favorite 997 outside the GT3. Congrats on the upgrade

///mawana · 03-09-2014, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdogg2000

Sorry, I'm having issues with my post... I never finished what I was trying to say! Will edit...

Got it!

jdogg2000 · 03-09-2014, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoney41

OP, congrats on the new ride. The GTS is a great car and was on my list of cars I was considering. I appreciate you outlining the pro's/con's of the 911 and your M3. My takeaway: for the money, the M3 is the way to go for most of us!!

If anything, driving the 2 cars back to back just highlighted how amazing the M3 package is. It also makes me doubtful that the new engines will be able to match the responsiveness, sound, and fun factor of the old naturally aspirated engines. The new M3 & M4 will be better in every measurable way, but having driven the latest M5 & M6, I fear the performance will be more "clinical." Part of the reason I decided on the 997 rather than a newer Porsche was that I want more raw in a fun car rather than more refined!

kdbryce · 03-10-2014, 08:09 AM

absolutely gorgeous.

I actually might switch to Porsche in the next couple years... huge 911 fan

jdogg2000 · 03-11-2014, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdbryce

absolutely gorgeous.

I actually might switch to Porsche in the next couple years... huge 911 fan

I debated between the C7, new Cayman, and 997.2 911. Ended up with the 911 because I thought I'd start with the classic Porsche and I figured it would be easier to switch into one of the other two rather than into the 911 later. I also drove the C7 in Malibu Canyon and I preferred the 911.

M3-S65 · 03-11-2014, 11:20 PM

Love what you got...
However, the M3 looks menacing and mean next to that wide eyed white angel...are you okay with that...

In a couple years I see you buying the new black Z06...
LOL

V8FunNaturally · 03-12-2014, 12:10 AM

The only Porsches that would tempt me would have to be a GT3, or GT3 RS or maybe a Pturbo. Anything else like S, 4S or GTS I prefer the E92 M3.

Sebringjetta · 03-12-2014, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunsweet

The only Porsches that would tempt me would have to be a GT3, or GT3 RS or maybe a Pturbo. Anything else like S, 4S or GTS I prefer the E92 M3.

jdogg2000 · 03-12-2014, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunsweet

The only Porsches that would tempt me would have to be a GT3, or GT3 RS or maybe a Pturbo. Anything else like S, 4S or GTS I prefer the E92 M3.

Have you ever actually owned a Porsche? I considered going turbo but I prefer naturally aspirated, lighter, and 2wd. In fact, i would take the new Cayman over a 2007-2008 turbo for that $$$$. The GT3 is awesome but the going rate on them is $100k+ these days unless you go older and non CPO. Given how much more stiffly even the GTS rides, in not so sure I'd appreciate the GT3 so much on the street (but on the track of course it would be great). To each his own but now that I have a 911, when people say GT3 or nothing (in comparison to the M3), I wonder how much experience they have driving all of the cars they talk about. I know if I got the Cayman people would be saying I should've gotten a 911 because that's the only true Porsche hahah.

Carl L · 03-12-2014, 11:03 AM

First, congrats on the purchase- the 997 GTS is a great car. Makes me miss my 996. Secondly, thanks for so a thorough and honest write up comparing the two cars. Very refreshing to hear from someone who doesn't just bang their drum.

Enjoy in good health and perhaps you'll be back in an M one day...or you'll be unable to lose the P GT bug and be in P-cars for evermore. Certainly great for us buyers to have such superb cars to choose from and makers that are constantly pressuring each other to improve.

V8FunNaturally · 03-12-2014, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdogg2000

Have you ever actually owned a Porsche? I considered going turbo but I prefer naturally aspirated, lighter, and 2wd. In fact, i would take the new Cayman over a 2007-2008 turbo for that $$$$. The GT3 is awesome but the going rate on them is $100k+ these days unless you go older and non CPO. Given how much more stiffly even the GTS rides, in not so sure I'd appreciate the GT3 so much on the street (but on the track of course it would be great). To each his own but now that I have a 911, when people say GT3 or nothing (in comparison to the M3), I wonder how much experience they have driving all of the cars they talk about. I know if I got the Cayman people would be saying I should've gotten a 911 because that's the only true Porsche hahah.

I've never owned a Porsche. I have driven quite a few 997 including a GT3. But you're right, once you consider the dollar to perf ratio factor, you cannot buy a Porsche like you'd buy another fast car. It requires that "you must have it" yearning passion for it, it's like a bug you catch that makes you insensitive to the $$$$ factor. If you classify cars by price it always seem that Porsche is selling their premium performance at the wrong price. I think a new GT3 should not be priced outlandishly north a new GT-R price as it is. And IMO a Carrera S should be cheaper than an M3 or close.
But yeah it's a nice Porsche and wishing you to enjoy it in good health.

Longboarder · 03-12-2014, 02:02 PM

congrats and excellent comparative impressions between the two.

RudyP · 03-12-2014, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdogg2000

Have you ever actually owned a Porsche? I considered going turbo but I prefer naturally aspirated, lighter, and 2wd. In fact, i would take the new Cayman over a 2007-2008 turbo for that $$$$. The GT3 is awesome but the going rate on them is $100k+ these days unless you go older and non CPO. Given how much more stiffly even the GTS rides, in not so sure I'd appreciate the GT3 so much on the street (but on the track of course it would be great). To each his own but now that I have a 911, when people say GT3 or nothing (in comparison to the M3), I wonder how much experience they have driving all of the cars they talk about. I know if I got the Cayman people would be saying I should've gotten a 911 because that's the only true Porsche hahah.

+1

A lot of armchair quarterbacks with strong opinions but limited data. A 997, even a base model, but certainly a C2S or a .2 GTS feels VERY different and much, much more of a true sports car than an E92 M3. The gap between M3 -> GTS is bigger than GTS -> GT3 IMO and I have (and continue to) own several Porsches and have driven/instructed in all of them, including all variants of the GT3 on road and track.

There most definitely are pros and cons to every 911 and the E9X M3 but those who throw out the "GT3 is better than M3 but M3 is better than 997.2 C2S/GTS" arguments always seem a bit suspect to me.

info@trinityautosport · 03-12-2014, 02:54 PM

congrats =)

bk_g80_m3 · 03-12-2014, 03:23 PM

Great choice jdogg2000! I have been keeping my eye on 911 listings since it's on my dream car list. The GTS is definitely the bargain of the century. They now seem to be coming off of lease so you can get one with about 30k miles for about 75 ish. Depending on where you buy it.

One of the main things I wondered about the car is DIY wheel swaps. It seems the center-lock wheels could be a PITA for track guys.

Did you buy the tools to do a wheel swap? Do you plan on swapping wheels?

I would totally buy a GTS right now if I didn't have to care about practicality.

03-09-2014, 05:35 PM	#1
jdogg2000 Private First Class 26 Rep 128 Posts Drives: 2011 Carrera GTS Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	1st time in 10 yrs with no BMW, but there is no substitute... With sadness, I said goodbye yesterday to my E92 M3. Having gone from a 2004 330i ZHP to a 2007 335i (European Delivery) to a 2008 E93 M3 to a 2011 Z4 to a 2011 E92 M3, I was nostalgic on my way to sell the car... I'd been contemplating trying something a little different for quite some time now and I finally decided to get something a little less practical as I have a different daily driver. This is what I ended up with: IMG_20140308_100712627_HDR I haven't had the new car too long now but I have some initial impressions. There are definitely some things I like better about each (pretty well elucidated by others but I concur on the following)... M3: - I like the engine better. Engine revs so freely & sounds better. - Exhaust note is better. I had the OEM exhaust mod on my M3 and I have the Porsche Sport Exhaust on the 911 and the M3's sound is way louder and way more menacing (I'm working on a mod for my 911 that will improve things). - I like the transmission better. DCT shifts faster and seems to have more grin-inducing throttle blips (I'm still experimenting with the PDK but even on Sports Plus it didn't seem to be as fun or as quick to downshift). On "auto" mode, the transmissions seem pretty close. - Suspension definitely more comfortable around town, yet still sporty. I drove the M3 at the M school and the handling is extremely impressive for its size and weight. - Upgraded audio is better than the upgraded audio in the Porsche (don't have the Burmester though!) - Seats are better (equally supportive but M3's are more comfortable). I have the $4,000+ adaptive sport seats in the 911 too! - Love the look. Aggressive. 911: - I like the driving position more. Car is so much lower to the ground and you feel like you're in a true sports car. At the same time, visibility is excellent. - Love how planted and solid the car feels. Like a solid chunk of granite. - Love the steering feel. Feels more nimble than the M3, you definitely feel the 300 lbs of less weight. - Suspension is stiff but not as uncomfortable as I thought it might be. - Feels significantly faster (but probably isn't). My Carrera GTS has the powerkit, which gives an extra 23hp than the Carrera S (to 408 hp) and a little improved torque curve, but realistically I know its probably not that much quicker than the M3. Definitely feels faster though. - Brakes are bloody fantastic - Love the look. Classic. Overall, I would say that these are both AMAZING cars and neither is hugely superior to the other in any way. They just occupy slightly different niches depending on what part of the practicality/sportiness spectrum you are looking for... perhaps I'll be back to BMW someday, but for now I'm going to enjoy what Porsche has to offer... IMG_20140308_100548719_HDR __________________ //'04 330i ZHP (gone) //'07 E92 335i (gone)//'08 SG E93 M3 (gone) //'11 Z4 sDrive35i (gone)//'11 Jet Black E92 M3 (gone) //'11 Carrera GTS Last edited by jdogg2000; 03-10-2014 at 05:53 AM..
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03-09-2014, 06:09 PM	#2
///mawana Lieutenant 80 Rep 564 Posts Drives: e90 M3 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Prosper, TX iTrader: (0)	Your images don't work,...but in any case, you go through your bmw's like underwear to really enjoy them! I doubt you will feel a difference if you get something different. What are you getting next? __________________ 2015 K46 S1KRR 2008 E90 M3
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03-09-2014, 06:44 PM	#4
jdogg2000 Private First Class 26 Rep 128 Posts Drives: 2011 Carrera GTS Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	Sorry, I'm having issues with my post... I never finished what I was trying to say! Will edit... __________________ //'04 330i ZHP (gone) //'07 E92 335i (gone)//'08 SG E93 M3 (gone) //'11 Z4 sDrive35i (gone)//'11 Jet Black E92 M3 (gone) //'11 Carrera GTS
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03-09-2014, 07:48 PM	#5
Vic311 Banned 42 Rep 1,463 Posts Drives: 2011 e92 M3 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: NY iTrader: (0)	It's hard to feel bad for you with a mint Porsche GTS sitting right there
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03-09-2014, 07:54 PM	#6
Shoney41 Second Lieutenant 25 Rep 245 Posts Drives: '13 E92 M3 6MT Jet Black Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Connecticut iTrader: (0)	OP, congrats on the new ride. The GTS is a great car and was on my list of cars I was considering. I appreciate you outlining the pro's/con's of the 911 and your M3. My takeaway: for the money, the M3 is the way to go for most of us!! __________________ 2013 E92 M3; 6MT; Jet Black; Fully Loaded; ACM Exhaust Mod
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03-09-2014, 08:35 PM	#8
lsmkr01 Lieutenant Colonel 42 Rep 1,629 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SC iTrader: (0)	The GTS is my favorite 997 outside the GT3. Congrats on the upgrade
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03-10-2014, 08:09 AM	#11
kdbryce I have to return some video tapes 362 Rep 4,712 Posts Drives: e70 X5M Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Albany, NY iTrader: (0)	absolutely gorgeous. I actually might switch to Porsche in the next couple years... huge 911 fan __________________ 13 Carbon Black e70 X5M - 13 Black Sapphire e92 335i - 10 Le Mans Blue e92 335i - 09 Monaco Blue e92 328i xdrive - 07 Sparkling Graphite e92 328xi
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03-11-2014, 11:20 PM	#13
M3-S65 Banned 43 Rep 881 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: USA iTrader: (6)	Love what you got... However, the M3 looks menacing and mean next to that wide eyed white angel...are you okay with that... In a couple years I see you buying the new black Z06... LOL
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03-12-2014, 12:10 AM	#14
V8FunNaturally Banned 58 Rep 1,017 Posts Drives: Regensburg Factory E92M3 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: NA iTrader: (0)	The only Porsches that would tempt me would have to be a GT3, or GT3 RS or maybe a Pturbo. Anything else like S, 4S or GTS I prefer the E92 M3.
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03-12-2014, 11:03 AM	#17
Carl L Major 196 Rep 1,248 Posts Drives: '15 M3 Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: West Coast iTrader: (0)	First, congrats on the purchase- the 997 GTS is a great car. Makes me miss my 996. Secondly, thanks for so a thorough and honest write up comparing the two cars. Very refreshing to hear from someone who doesn't just bang their drum. Enjoy in good health and perhaps you'll be back in an M one day...or you'll be unable to lose the P GT bug and be in P-cars for evermore. Certainly great for us buyers to have such superb cars to choose from and makers that are constantly pressuring each other to improve.
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03-12-2014, 02:02 PM	#19
Longboarder Major General 3436 Rep 6,771 Posts Drives: 2016 BMW i8 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Monarch Beach iTrader: (1) Garage List 2012 BMW e92 M3 [0.00] 2021 BMW X5M [10.00] 2015 Porsche 991 Tu ... [10.00] 2015 Porsche 991 GT3 [10.00]	congrats and excellent comparative impressions between the two. __________________ Current BMWs: 2022 X5 40i, 2016 X5 50i 2015 Porsche 991 Turbo S 1979 Porsche 911 Turbo (930) a couple others IG: longboarder949; YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
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03-12-2014, 02:54 PM	#21
info@trinityautosport 281 Rep 7,518 Posts Drives: F13 M6 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Anaheim, CA iTrader: (0)	congrats =)
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03-12-2014, 03:23 PM	#22
bk_g80_m3 Second Lieutenant 191 Rep 285 Posts Drives: 2017 M2 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: California iTrader: (0)	Great choice jdogg2000! I have been keeping my eye on 911 listings since it's on my dream car list. The GTS is definitely the bargain of the century. They now seem to be coming off of lease so you can get one with about 30k miles for about 75 ish. Depending on where you buy it. One of the main things I wondered about the car is DIY wheel swaps. It seems the center-lock wheels could be a PITA for track guys. Did you buy the tools to do a wheel swap? Do you plan on swapping wheels? I would totally buy a GTS right now if I didn't have to care about practicality.
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