3.9 0-60 I'm told...

[darkalley]

One of my buddies is at an event w the M4 and said they got the 0-60 under 4 seconds and the feedback on the car has been great!

[JustChris]

Cool, it is rated at 3.9 for 0-60 with DCT so kinda expected...or better really, was this in a manual? Any feedback on steering feel?

[ss134]

Originally Posted by darkalley

One of my buddies is at an event w the M4 and said they got the 0-60 under 4 seconds and the feedback on the car has been great!

Good news! Although if I'm honest despite some of the doubters on here did anyone ever expect BMW to produce a poor M3? They haven't yet and I expect this generation to be one of the best.

[darkalley]

My friend is going to jump in the seat shortly so I will let you know if I hear anything else but he says the feedback on the car was great.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by ss134

Good news! Although if I'm honest despite some of the doubters on here did anyone ever expect BMW to produce a poor M3? They haven't yet and I expect this generation to be one of the best.

Had BMW ever produced a disappointing M5?, 3-series?, 5-series prior to the F generation? Many like me would say no and I felt as sure as you do now prior to the F generation. That's why some of us are more apprehensive than usual this time around. For me BMW has lost the "have we ever disappointed" card many cars ago. This time is all about showing that they still can and want to build a car worthy of it's predecessors. I happen to think they have but I will not know for sure until I've driven it.

If BMW is specifying 3.9s we should see tested numbers far below that as we always have. When we get down to this short times though, far is not many tenths. 3.7 is far below 3.9 in my book and I think we'll see that.

[IMrMark]

Originally Posted by darkalley

My friend is going to jump in the seat shortly so I will let you know if I hear anything else but he says the feedback on the car was great.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by darkalley

My friend is going to jump in the seat shortly so I will let you know if I hear anything else but he says the feedback on the car was great.

Great stuff. I will not ask what the event is due to the silly embargo...
( do they think we all have 20 screens and start all reviews in sync, watching and listening to all of them at the exact same time to be "fair"... )

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by solstice

Had BMW ever produced a disappointing M5?, 3-series?, 5-series prior to the F generation? Many like me would say no and I felt as sure as you do now prior to the F generation. That's why some of us are more apprehensive than usual this time around. For me BMW has lost the "have we ever disappointed" card many cars ago. This time is all about showing that they still can and want to build a car worthy of it's predecessors. I happen to think they have but I will not know until I've driven it.

The Bangle era did create some disappointing cars... The 7-serie that looked bad... The E60 without M sport looks odd. First gen X5 isn't a looker either.

That's looks though.

As a previous E60 owner and current F10 owner, to me the F10 is a quantum leap over the E60 in ride, handling and comfort. The solidity and perceived quality is far beyond my E60...

I also feel the same about the E90 vs F30.

However, the cars have become borderline to large and heavy. It's not that they are bad cars IMHO, it's more that they could have been a tiny bit smaller and quite a bit lighter

[ss134]

Originally Posted by solstice

Had BMW ever produced a disappointing M5?, 3-series?, 5-series prior to the F generation? Many like me would say no and I felt as sure as you do now prior to the F generation. That's why some of us are more apprehensive than usual this time around. For me BMW has lost the "have we ever disappointed" card many cars ago. This time is all about showing that they still can and want to build a car worthy of it's predecessors. I happen to think they have but I will not know for sure until I've driven it.

The M3 is the M3. It is not a 3,5 or even M5 , M6. It embodies everything the BMW brand stands for. It would be a tragedy of epic proportions for BMW if their sportiest car did not deliver. More resources, time and effort go into developing a new M3 for this reason. I have absolutely zero doubts that it will be a great M3, as the others have all been although I do agree with you that some recent models from BMW have been disappointing.......this will not be one of them.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by solstice

Great stuff. I will not ask what the event is due to the silly embargo...
( do they think we all have 20 screens and start all reviews in sync, watching and listening to all of them at the exact same time to be "fair"... )

No, but they (as in Bimmerpost vs Other online media/forums) wouldn't be to happy about reading a competing magazine's review two days before they had their test drive take place...

If some other forum could post their test drive info two days earlier than Bimmerpost, this place would be dead and Jason etc would not be to happy.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by ss134

The M3 is the M3. It is not a 3,5 or even M5 , M6. It embodies everything the BMW brand stands for. It would be a tragedy of epic proportions for BMW if their sportiest car did not deliver. More resources, time and effort go into developing a new M3 for this reason. I have absolutely zero doubts that it will be a great M3, as the others have all been.

I agree on all parts except the zero doubt. No review will remove those doubts. A couple of days into my Euro delivery will do that, hopefully

[ss134]

Originally Posted by solstice

I agree on all parts except the zero doubt. No review will remove those doubts. A couple of days into my Euro delivery will do that, hopefully

I'm sure you will love it! Bring on the summer.........

[ASAP]

May I ask what is wrong with the current gen 5 series or M5/M6? Yall have got to be kidding coming in here talking about the e60/e63 lololol

[ss134]

Originally Posted by ASAP

May I ask what is wrong with the current gen 5 series or M5/M6? Yall have got to be kidding coming in here talking about the e60/e63 lololol

Nothing apart from they're the size of Texas and weigh 2 tonnes. Not what I look for in a car but to each to their own. The M6 GC does look stunning though.

[IMrMark]

Originally Posted by ChesterM4

Cool, it is rated at 3.9 for 0-60 with DCT so kinda expected...or better really, was this in a manual?

I would actually love to know that answer as well I think I already do but... one can dream.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by ss134

Nothing apart from they're the size of Texas and weigh 2 tonnes. Not what I look for in a car but to each to their own. The M6 GC does look stunning though.

Thats the point of an M5/M6... the M3 is a car for a weight conscious individual.

Albeit IMHO, out of all of the current BMW offerings the 3 and 4 are the absolute worst whereas the 2,5,6,7 and X models are awesome. This is why I believe the M3 has a ton to live up to or improve upon the standard car.

[ixse]

Originally Posted by Boss330

The Bangle era did create some disappointing cars... The 7-serie that looked bad... The E60 without M sport looks odd. First gen X5 isn't a looker either.

That's looks though.

As a previous E60 owner and current F10 owner, to me the F10 is a quantum leap over the E60 in ride, handling and comfort. The solidity and perceived quality is far beyond my E60...

I also feel the same about the E90 vs F30.

However, the cars have become borderline to large and heavy. It's not that they are bad cars IMHO, it's more that they could have been a tiny bit smaller and quite a bit lighter

... f30 is lighter than e90... its just bigger..

[19x]

I know that I always break a lot of hearts when I say this, but it's not always about weight.

Just because a car is heavy - or heavier - doesn't mean that it's no longer a driver's car!

Yes, weight does make a difference in the way a car feels and drives. Trust me, I know. In my experience, this was quite evident in competition use, be it at an autox or on a track.

However, I also noticed an interesting pattern developing. The heavier weight in most newer performance cars was more than offset by the advancements in suspension technology and chassis design.

I would even go as far and say that weight distribution is more relevant nowadays than the weight itself.

Believe me, I love cars that weigh less. My current car is a 2004 M3. I also had a second e36 M3 that I sold two years ago. Both were relatively lightweight compared to recent models.

But again, this weight difference was not as significant in terms of performance as most people believe.

And by most people, I am referring to the "because-race-car" crowd. Everybody nowadays thinks they're a race car driver because they track their car. That is comedy.

When in reality, the higher weight of a current BMW will be offset dramatically by both driver skill and suspension tech. So much so that the lower weight of the other car will maybe account for 1% edge in drivability and performance, if that.

Historically, cars have gotten heavier. Period. And it's all relative.

People may consider, for example, the e36 M3 as a light car. A benchmark to go by in terms of weight. But what those people are forgetting is that, for its time, the e36 M3 was a heavy pig compared to the e30 M3. And so on...

It's inevitable. And it happens every single year.

When the e46 M3 came out, the die hard purists complained about how heavy it was. Then the trend shifted and people complained how heavy the e9x M3 got vs the e46 M3. And so on...

[ASAP]

One key thing to note about weight is that it can make a car feel very planted and stable at high speeds. Not to mention solid.

The regular f30 w its lightweight doors and body panels as well as lightweight resistance eps honestly feels like a civic lol. I hope the m3 improves in all aspects.

[tdizzle]

Originally Posted by camber

I know that I always break a lot of hearts when I say this, but it's not always about weight.

Just because a car is heavy - or heavier - doesn't mean that it's no longer a driver's car!

Yes, weight does make a difference in the way a car feels and drives. Trust me, I know. In my experience, this was quite evident in competition use, be it at an autox or on a track.

However, I also noticed an interesting pattern developing. The heavier weight in most newer performance cars was more than offset by the advancements in suspension technology and chassis design.

I would even go as far and say that weight distribution is more relevant nowadays than the weight itself.

Believe me, I love cars that weigh less. My current car is a 2004 M3. I also had a second e36 M3 that I sold two years ago. Both were relatively lightweight compared to recent models.

But again, this weight difference was not as significant in terms of performance as most people believe.

And by most people, I am referring to the "because-race-car" crowd. Everybody nowadays thinks they're a race car driver because they track their car. That is comedy.

When in reality, the higher weight of a current BMW will be offset dramatically by both driver skill and suspension tech. So much so that the lower weight of the other car will maybe account for 1% edge in drivability and performance, if that.

Historically, cars have gotten heavier. Period. And it's all relative.

People may consider, for example, the e36 M3 as a light car. A benchmark to go by in terms of weight. But what those people are forgetting is that, for its time, the e36 M3 was a heavy pig compared to the e30 M3. And so on...

It's inevitable. And it happens every single year.

When the e46 M3 came out, the die hard purists complained about how heavy it was. Then the trend shifted and people complained how heavy the e9x M3 got vs the e46 M3. And so on...

Good post.

I do auto cross and usually fare pretty well but wouldn't say I'm the best driver ( no I'm not faster than the guy in the FBO M1 last weekend even though I was until his final two runs).

I will say that my fat pig of an f30 destroyed the "light weight" e36 m3 that ran with us. I did also lose to the good driver in the Lexus ISF too though...

If I recall I think the 2012 550 ran slightly faster than the m3 mentioned above.

No real point in his post that our love for the older lighter cars doesn't necessarily compute as the newer heavier cars outperform then in most cases. Even on the auto cross scene where light quick cars have an advantage. See the 450whp trans am that couldn't use that power and finished in the bottom third, but right around where said m3 ended up.

[Arcoril]

I drive an S2000 and at 2800lbs it's a featherweight today but was considered a pig when it came out. To minimize the effect of all that weight, it has a super stiff chassis, wonderful low-displacement high-revving engine, double wishbone susepnsion at all four corners, limited slip differential, fabulous gearbox, and 50:50 weight distribution. I absolutely love it and it's the best handling car I've ever owned. That said, Elise drivers laugh and run circles around me. Weight is still weight and while engineers have gotten much better at hiding it, they still have to work within the laws of physics.

With very few exceptions a well-engineered light car will always outhandle a well-engineered heavier car of the same era when driven by equally skilled drivers.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by camber

I know that I always break a lot of hearts when I say this, but it's not always about weight.

Just because a car is heavy - or heavier - doesn't mean that it's no longer a driver's car!

Yes, weight does make a difference in the way a car feels and drives. Trust me, I know. In my experience, this was quite evident in competition use, be it at an autox or on a track.

However, I also noticed an interesting pattern developing. The heavier weight in most newer performance cars was more than offset by the advancements in suspension technology and chassis design.

I would even go as far and say that weight distribution is more relevant nowadays than the weight itself.

Believe me, I love cars that weigh less. My current car is a 2004 M3. I also had a second e36 M3 that I sold two years ago. Both were relatively lightweight compared to recent models.

But again, this weight difference was not as significant in terms of performance as most people believe.

And by most people, I am referring to the "because-race-car" crowd. Everybody nowadays thinks they're a race car driver because they track their car. That is comedy.

When in reality, the higher weight of a current BMW will be offset dramatically by both driver skill and suspension tech. So much so that the lower weight of the other car will maybe account for 1% edge in drivability and performance, if that.

Historically, cars have gotten heavier. Period. And it's all relative.

People may consider, for example, the e36 M3 as a light car. A benchmark to go by in terms of weight. But what those people are forgetting is that, for its time, the e36 M3 was a heavy pig compared to the e30 M3. And so on...

It's inevitable. And it happens every single year.

When the e46 M3 came out, the die hard purists complained about how heavy it was. Then the trend shifted and people complained how heavy the e9x M3 got vs the e46 M3. And so on...

I don't fully disagree with your point, where the increases in weight have been more than offset with the advancements of chassis and suspension design (plus tire technology that you did not mention).

There is however one main flaw in your logic: Combine suspension, chassis and tire design advancements with lower weight and you get a significant leap in performance.