[aerobod]

Originally Posted by baron95

6th *is* an overdrive - 0.85:1 - ratio.

The S58 power curve is more peaky than the S55 and the second gear ratio being nearly 1/2 the first gear ratio is a bad experience, doesn't matter how many words you put around it.

That is why many "enthusiast" reviewers are on the reccord that on the G87 they prefer the A8.

I made my decision to go A8 after driving a HEA M6. I will miss the manual, but it was really no matched well to the engine. And on top of that you have to miss on remote start, smart key, wireless charging, etc - too much.

The ratio doesn't matter (you could always have a 1.7:1 gear with twice the differential ratio to achieve the same gearing), the effect of overdrive is to have a gear ratio that is such that the engine is below it's power peak at the maximum unrestricted speed in the highest gear ratio, usually a car with an overdrive top gear will reach maximum speed in a lower gear. This is not the case with the G87.

Nothing wrong with 1st to 2nd gear in my G87 manual, the engine stays well in the peak torque range after shifting at the redline, it just takes more skill than many people are willing to acquire to shift it smoothly. A lower 2nd gear would be wasted, as you can still break traction at full throttle on a dry surface. 3rd gear is epic as an overtaking gear (as is often the case with BMWs).

Too many YouTube reviewers who don't know how to drive a sporting manual properly, it seems.

[xbigbenx]

Originally Posted by RandomBro

How hard did you drive the ITS? It doesn't shine until u push it about 7/10+ on twisties/turns. If u drove it slowly in the city in a straight line, you won't experience any of its strong points.

Where the m240i excels in straight lines but doesn't come close to the ITS in handling situations.

I went around some back roads in both cars and a few exits of highway as well. Sure on the tight back to back turns the ITS was nice. But that didn't make up for the adrenaline rush I got from powering out of the turns and passing people of the highways in the 240i. TBF I also live in the PNW and going fast around corners is a bad idea in any vehicle when it's raining.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Too many YouTube reviewers who don't know how to drive a sporting manual properly, it seems.

That is very true.

I'll stop reading your posts now, else I'm going to start doubting my decision again of skipping the manual.

I'm sure going to miss my SS 1LE M6 when I trade it in. I have 2 more track days before turning it in - have to work it out of my system

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Too many YouTube reviewers who don't know how to drive a sporting manual properly, it seems.

I think this is the crux of it, really.

If 2nd was REALLY too tall then we'd see a weak 0-60 time, but this is a 4.3 second car. Especially when compared to the ITS, which is about 5.5 seconds*. I mean, dude, cmon now.

If you care about maximal acceleration and making best use of power under curve all the way to 170 MPH, the M2 gearing ratios are just fine.

Is it the best ratio set for city driving if you never exceed 60 MPH? Of course not, but manual M cars aren't intended for stop and go traffic.

I also remember that EE previously said the G87 never gets out of third gear in city driving, as if that was a problem with the car. The problem is the soul crushing commute, not the car.

His criteria for evaluating sports cars is IMO kinda weird.

*Edit: I'm actually not sure what 'official' ITS 0-60 time is, I can't seem to find it. Seen a few unofficial numbers, I'll make a guess and say about 5.5s.

[RandomBro]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I think this is the crux of it, really.

If 2nd was REALLY too tall then we'd see a weak 0-60 time, but this is a 4.3 second car. Especially when compared to the ITS, which is about 7 seconds. I mean, dude, cmon now.

If you care about maximal acceleration and making best use of power under curve all the way to 170 MPH, the M2 gearing ratios are just fine.

Is it the best ratio set for city driving if you never exceed 60 MPH? Of course not, but manual M cars aren't intended for stop and go traffic.

I also remember that EE previously said the G87 never gets out of third gear in city driving, as if that was a problem with the car. The problem is the soul crushing commute, not the car.

His criteria for evaluating sports cars is IMO kinda weird.

I tried to eat my steak with chop sticks vs. Knife and fork, that steak as terrible. Worst steak ever.

[BimmerMat135]

Knowing how Bmw are generally underated the math don’t work. However, if we are just talking about feel if you make a car that have a 1st that top out at 20mph a second gear that top out at 35mph a third that top out at 50mph well of course the pulling feel will be much greater in each gear but that doesn’t mean the car will accelerate faster. Hp to weight ratio will dictate how fast your car will be.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

Knowing how Bmw are generally underated the math don’t work. However, if we are just talking about feel if you make a car that have a 1st that top out at 20mph a second gear that top out at 35mph a third that top out at 50mph well of course the pulling feel will be much greater in each gear but that doesn’t mean the car will accelerate faster. Hp to weight ratio will dictate how fast your car will be.

Yes, but HP-to-weight only describes theoretical acceleration in the absence of power curves, traction, suspension, gearing, and various loss effects. HP-to-weight isn't a very good predictor of real performance, TBH.

For example, a G87 matches and/or beats a Supra on track despite a worse HP-to-weight ratio.

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Yes, but HP-to-weight only describes theoretical acceleration in the absence of power curves, traction, suspension, gearing, and various loss effects. HP-to-weight isn't a very good predictor of real performance, TBH.

For example, a G87 matches and/or beats a Supra on track despite a worse HP-to-weight ratio.

Of course there are many differents factors involved but the base theory is all about hp to weight ratio. I remember when I was younger there was that saying that Hp sell cars and torque wins race if it was any true all diesel cars would have dominate the street.

[KCuv]

I owned a 90s integrated, when it was a small sporty coupe - was a great car.

IDC what any of the reviews say - this is stupid. one is 2+2 sports car. the other is a horrendous looking Honda accord equivalent. lame comparison

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I think this is the crux of it, really.

If 2nd was REALLY too tall then we'd see a weak 0-60 time, but this is a 4.3 second car. Especially when compared to the ITS, which is about 5.5 seconds*. I mean, dude, cmon now.

If you care about maximal acceleration and making best use of power under curve all the way to 170 MPH, the M2 gearing ratios are just fine.

Is it the best ratio set for city driving if you never exceed 60 MPH? Of course not, but manual M cars aren't intended for stop and go traffic.

I also remember that EE previously said the G87 never gets out of third gear in city driving, as if that was a problem with the car. The problem is the soul crushing commute, not the car.

His criteria for evaluating sports cars is IMO kinda weird.

*Edit: I'm actually not sure what 'official' ITS 0-60 time is, I can't seem to find it. Seen a few unofficial numbers, I'll make a guess and say about 5.5s.

I did a quick plot of the relative acceleration at a given speed based on the gearing and power available after drag is overcome (assumed at 6250RPM peak power).

With the M2 gearing, the acceleration between each gear is nice and progressive. Assuming 1st gear is fixed to give reasonable off the line acceleration while avoiding the need for excessive clutch slipping and 6th gear is set to allow top speed to be drag limited without hitting the 7200RPM rev limit, 2,3,4 & 5th gears give ideal progression in the acceleration, any change in any of the gear ratios would cause a much more disjointed acceleration between the gears.

If any gear ratio is changed to make the transmission more sporty, I would drop 6th from the current 0.846 to 0.888 ratio (about 5% lower geared), which would change it’s theoretical 305km/h gearing at redline to 290km/h and make it rev as opposed to drag limited. This would make the relative acceleration and speed gap a bit more progressive than it currently is, with a slight detriment to highway cruising noise and economy.

[GHO$T]

Originally Posted by aerobod

I did a quick plot of the relative acceleration at a given speed based on the gearing and power available after drag is overcome (assumed at 6250RPM peak power).

With the M2 gearing, the acceleration between each gear is nice and progressive. Assuming 1st gear is fixed to give reasonable off the line acceleration while avoiding the need for excessive clutch slipping and 6th gear is set to allow top speed to be drag limited without hitting the 7200RPM rev limit, 2,3,4 & 5th gears give ideal progression in the acceleration, any change in any of the gear ratios would cause a much more disjointed acceleration between the gears.

Good Work !

[shehatezme]

Tbh the YT car reviewers are so saturated now. All of them saying the same shit. All these reviews are a self fulfilling prophecy because everyone just copying each other’s content.

These guys are no better than the fashion influencers that your wife watch on TikTok. They are just saying something provocative to get the views. Take everything with a grain of salt.

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by shehatezme

Tbh the YT car reviewers are so saturated now. All of them saying the same shit. All these reviews are a self fulfilling prophecy because everyone just copying each other’s content.

These guys are no better than the fashion influencers that your wife watch on TikTok. They are just saying something provocative to get the views. Take everything with a grain of salt.

The input you provide just proves NONE Of them are worth watching at all. Clicks n Money. Its just a game you pay..........they win. Ridiculous. Its an over done joke.